The Car Thread

[Luke Rainbird]

Great stuff Sam, you'll be flying completely solo in no time at this rate!

[Tom Booth]

Good work Sam, keep at it bud!

[Luke Rainbird]

There's going to be so much excess steel in that car it's going to need a 2.0l 4wd setup just to get it moving...

[CurtisRider]

My girlfriend and I want to do a road trip next year and she has agreed it would be great to do it in the 924. This gives me the excuse to get some of the small and large niggles sorted and get the car presentable as it has been looking very sorry for itself recently! Most of it I know what I'm doing but there are some things i'm unsure of.

I want to give it a fresh paint job, I'm sorted for the gun, and compressors but no idea which paint to go for and also which mask I'll be needing. 

Paint wise, should I be aiming to use a 2 pack paint rather than single? Seeing as it'll be a full respray I can't see a reason not to as the finish and longevity of the paint should be far better? I've not sprayed 2 pack before but it seems fairly similar in processes, just a few more mixing stages. Is there much of a cost difference? I will have an indoor place to spray but no extraction or heating currently, are these things I'll really need to have for these few jobs or will it be a case of I'll need to polish lots more from overspray if i don't? I can heat the area before hand with my propane heater but this may release too much moisture in the air and obviously I can't use it after I've sprayed!

I'll be wanting an air fed mask regardless as I need to spray lots of agricultural stuff over the winter and regular face masks are rubbish. What is the best value for money mask to go for? Obviously I'd like to spend as little as possible, but I don't want to sacrifice my health so will spend whatever I need to. 

[forteh]

To the Boothcave™!

[Danny]

@Tom Booth

[forteh]

I prefer my method to hailing our resident paint spraying expert better!

[Tom Booth]

PAINT TEAM... ASSEMBLE!

 

Ok, your first decision as you just said is single pack or 2k. Personally I wouldn't use single pack on my shed door, the effort and time you'll put in flatting and getting your panels right will just be wasted in 6 months time with a totally flat dull finish.

If you keep ontop of single pack with the polish then it'll stay bright, but it's alot of work when using a better product in the first place is a simpler answer. Your other option I guess is 1k poly/synthetic. Designed as a crude agricultural product, it'll do the job and is abit stronger then cellulose, but comes with it's inherent problems like super slow drying, you can't machine polish it as it'll wake up and soften again.

With 2K, the only real addition is your hardner, so the mixture is pretty straight forward. Don't use too faster hardner, in this weather your really gonna want to be using a slow/medium hardner, in winter you could probably get away with a fast. You want a wet edge to coke back to on your coats, so as you come back around your not painting and trying to get the wet fresh back into already drying paint.

Make sure you get a medium solid 2K, there is variations on 2k and it is the solid content of the materials. Most products over the counter will be medium solids, as the paint shop don't want the grief when your homebrew paint job doesn't dry properly.

100% don't use the propane heater. The moisture they add to the air isn't worth the reward. Just a cheapelectric heater is the winner.

In terms of cost your probably not far off similar money for single/2K, find a pretty sensible paint shop and you'll be around £23/£25 per litre for either, but then your activator will bump the price up a little bit. Personally, I'd get a gallon price, your more then likely gonna be 3l or so for your Porsche, looking £75ish, more often then not 5L will be £80ish so your always covered for future work.

What state is the car in Paul? Any primer work to be done? If your geared up for 2K top coat, use 2k primer too. The results are far better and will last far better when worked right.

Yes, 100% buy an air fed mask, full face too, the half face respirator style aren't worth the plastic they're made of.

Get on eBay and buy a second hand devilbiss item, buy a filter kit for it and get rocking. I bought one to paint my buddy's car in his garage as I knew my mask wouldn't keep up and with the work and got my money back on it once the job was done. If you get them at the right momey though they are a worth while thing to have in the garage.

 

[forteh]

You're my hero, forget that jenny bird, marry me? [swoon]

[CurtisRider]

9 hours ago, Tom Booth said:

PAINT TEAM... ASSEMBLE!

 

Ok, your first decision as you just said is single pack or 2k. Personally I wouldn't use single pack on my shed door, the effort and time you'll put in flatting and getting your panels right will just be wasted in 6 months time with a totally flat dull finish.

If you keep ontop of single pack with the polish then it'll stay bright, but it's alot of work when using a better product in the first place is a simpler answer. Your other option I guess is 1k poly/synthetic. Designed as a crude agricultural product, it'll do the job and is abit stronger then cellulose, but comes with it's inherent problems like super slow drying, you can't machine polish it as it'll wake up and soften again.

With 2K, the only real addition is your hardner, so the mixture is pretty straight forward. Don't use too faster hardner, in this weather your really gonna want to be using a slow/medium hardner, in winter you could probably get away with a fast. You want a wet edge to coke back to on your coats, so as you come back around your not painting and trying to get the wet fresh back into already drying paint.

Make sure you get a medium solid 2K, there is variations on 2k and it is the solid content of the materials. Most products over the counter will be medium solids, as the paint shop don't want the grief when your homebrew paint job doesn't dry properly.

100% don't use the propane heater. The moisture they add to the air isn't worth the reward. Just a cheapelectric heater is the winner.

In terms of cost your probably not far off similar money for single/2K, find a pretty sensible paint shop and you'll be around £23/£25 per litre for either, but then your activator will bump the price up a little bit. Personally, I'd get a gallon price, your more then likely gonna be 3l or so for your Porsche, looking £75ish, more often then not 5L will be £80ish so your always covered for future work.

What state is the car in Paul? Any primer work to be done? If your geared up for 2K top coat, use 2k primer too. The results are far better and will last far better when worked right.

Yes, 100% buy an air fed mask, full face too, the half face respirator style aren't worth the plastic they're made of.

Get on eBay and buy a second hand devilbiss item, buy a filter kit for it and get rocking. I bought one to paint my buddy's car in his garage as I knew my mask wouldn't keep up and with the work and got my money back on it once the job was done. If you get them at the right momey though they are a worth while thing to have in the garage.

 

Legend, thanks Tom! Just a few more questions if you don't mind?

I use 1k poly/synthetic quite a bit on our machines so I am familiar with it, I didn't realise it was bad for mopping though! Is there any way to brighten up a dulled synthetic finish without a respray?

I have some electric heaters but I don't think they have the oomph to heat the area (I'll buy a marquee to put in a building so it'll lose heat rather quickly, I could build an insulated spraying room though if i really have to), how much heat is really necessary? Will there be any adverse effects with a lower temp apart from presumably a slower drying time?

You mention a wet edge to coke back on, what does that mean?

The car is pretty good in most places, a patch to do on one wing and the rear panel needs sanding right back as there was a reaction in the paint a while back. I might whack some better doors on so I'll probably need 5l of paint as they will need doing all over, they are red currently so presumably I'll be wanting a white primer as I'll keep the car Alpine white with black features I think. Should I be using any other sorts of primer on the car? Filler primer may be necessary on some areas, then I presume white primer, colour coat and laquer to finish?

Is this mask any good? I don't mind buying new at that price!
Devilbiss ProV 650
 

Ok turns out that doesn't include everything... is this sufficient?
Devilbiss filter shite

Edited August 7, 2018 by CurtisRider

[Tom Booth]

Yeah 1k/poly generally doesn't mop, it'll soften up then tear if you get it too warm. Usually just keep ontop of it by hand and compound.

Generally warmth isn't too much of an issue, in my first unit I used to paint in winter around 3/4*c with the fans on and never really had too many issues.  Aslong as the chill is out the air you shouldn't have too many issues if your planning on winter time, your biggest problems would come from using 1k products in those conditions, 1k is really suseptable to something called blooming, where it picks up the moisture in the air, the finish then goes a milky matt version of what you originally painted, 2k isn't at all really unless ypur painting in really bad conditions, low temps, damp atmosphere and no air movement, even then I think you'd be unlucky.

Slower drying time usually yields better gloss levels. Alot of people in the trade want to do 3/4 cars a day, so whack drying accelerators in to force dry the products so it's out the booth and the next one in, then they wonder why it's flat as hell in a months time..

Sorry, the wet edge to come back on..

The place you want to start is somewhere small and unnoticeable when the cars reassembled, so door shuts or slam panel etc, getting round a car with a good coating usually takes a good 15mins including your second mix of colour or maybe more. Obviously all the time your first area of paint is drying, the second it leaves the gun the air dry reaction has started. You want to be able to come back to your first area/edge and the paint still be wet enough to absorb your overlaying 1st coat, not the end of the world if it isn't as you can flat and mop this later, but just makes lighter work of the job if it is. So to combat this different speed activators/hardners are available for the job your doing. Panel painting and you'll get away with using an express activator or fast, for bigger jobs where you will need the window open to come back on your first pass, slow and medium hardners are there.

When you come to do the work be mindful of the atmosphere at the time your thinking of painting, if it's cooling off in the evenings use something like a medium activator apposed to slow, if it's later in the year and it's generally cooler all the time you may get away with a fast activator, just depends how quick you are at painting.

Personally I'd just pick up a 3L or 5L 2k primer filler kit in grey, white on white is a dick to try and check for coverage, white generally is under reds, yellows and oranges.

That one kit will do all you need really. Treat it as a filler primer on your repairs so if you have a gun with a big enough nozzle, use it neat to get a good build on there. Once your repairs are dressed and ready and you feel happy just shoot any other primer areas with 10-15% thinner in your high build and it'll just act as a good primer for you to lay your top coat onto.

You mention colour coat then lacquer.. Personally I'd just shoot the car in 2k solid, mix your colour with activator, shoot 2 coats and job done.

Whites in basecoat and lacquer are hard work, they show up any dirt in your basecoat, any that's been picked up in your lacquer and generally just make hard work of it. 2k solid colour is just easier for pale colours, any dust nibs are coloured over and can be flatted out alot easier. Plus no lacquer to worry about so keeps the job cheaper.

Link to the mask doesn't work for me but I recognise the part number. Yeah anything devilbiss is usually a good shout. I use a battery powered 3M versaflow up at work and it's fantastic, best thing I've ever bought but it works all day everyday so it's justified I guess. The devilbiss finishline range is good stuff for home use, nice and cheap as they're abit no frills, but still passed all H&S testing, plus full parts support is always nice to have.

 

[Danny]

Is 2k still readily available Tom? I know you can get 2k lacquer still (although not what it was) but I thought most/all basecoat was water based now?

[Duncy H]

I’m a bit out of the loop with cars in the U.K. as I’ve lived in the land of maple syrup and poutine for the last three years. I’m in need of a car that me and the girlfriend can share a bit. 

Luckily I have use of my dads nice new Peugeot estate for going adventuring in and throwing bikes in and I plan to commute a bunch by bike so not limited to what will and won’t work really.

Budget is the tight one, close to or around £1000+ would be preferable and something that’s not going to break down every time there’s a week in the month.

Mx5 and Clio 172 came to mind but I’m open to suggestions if anyone has ideas or anyone here has something they have seen or might be selling?

[MadManMike]

Given the budget of £1000, I think the MX-5 or Clio are the best options. I had a budget of that and ended up with a 5, because they're reliable, easy to work on and way more fun than most other cars in that price range (And more, to be fair!)

The other option is a mk4 Golf / mk1 Leon / A3, they're pretty reliable & nippy.

Other than that you're looking at Fiesta / Corsa type stuff, which, well, nah.

[Luke Rainbird]

I'd agree with Mike. I also need to get rid of our mk4 Golf to make way for something more baby-friendly - not going to be that guy and try to push it on you, but if you do end up going down that sort of route drop me a line and we'll sort something out

[Tom Booth]

6 hours ago, Danny said:

Is 2k still readily available Tom? I know you can get 2k lacquer still (although not what it was) but I thought most/all basecoat was water based now?

Nah basecoat is still available in solvent or water, but they are pushing harder for water based to be the standard. It isn't practical at all though so they're having a hard time.

2k solid colours are readily available, usually sold as commercial or plant paint but yeah still there.

[TROYston]

Does anybody have any idea on what tool ill need to remove this bolt?

Space is VERY limited, before it got chewed with mole grips, a 10mm, 9mm and 3/8ths splined spanner didnt fit (10mm was close but slipped)

There is no hexagonal bolt on the bottom of the 'castle' thing

[Danny]

You sure its not captive and unscrews from the other side?

[TROYston]

44 minutes ago, Danny said:

You sure its not captive and unscrews from the other side?

Nope, on the balljoint, it has a washer places against the 'flat' spots before the threaded section, so it has to be undone. There is no other way i can see.

[CurtisRider]

On 07/08/2018 at 8:21 AM, Tom Booth said:

Yeah 1k/poly generally doesn't mop, it'll soften up then tear if you get it too warm. Usually just keep ontop of it by hand and compound.

Generally warmth isn't too much of an issue, in my first unit I used to paint in winter around 3/4*c with the fans on and never really had too many issues.  Aslong as the chill is out the air you shouldn't have too many issues if your planning on winter time, your biggest problems would come from using 1k products in those conditions, 1k is really suseptable to something called blooming, where it picks up the moisture in the air, the finish then goes a milky matt version of what you originally painted, 2k isn't at all really unless ypur painting in really bad conditions, low temps, damp atmosphere and no air movement, even then I think you'd be unlucky.

Slower drying time usually yields better gloss levels. Alot of people in the trade want to do 3/4 cars a day, so whack drying accelerators in to force dry the products so it's out the booth and the next one in, then they wonder why it's flat as hell in a months time..

Sorry, the wet edge to come back on..

The place you want to start is somewhere small and unnoticeable when the cars reassembled, so door shuts or slam panel etc, getting round a car with a good coating usually takes a good 15mins including your second mix of colour or maybe more. Obviously all the time your first area of paint is drying, the second it leaves the gun the air dry reaction has started. You want to be able to come back to your first area/edge and the paint still be wet enough to absorb your overlaying 1st coat, not the end of the world if it isn't as you can flat and mop this later, but just makes lighter work of the job if it is. So to combat this different speed activators/hardners are available for the job your doing. Panel painting and you'll get away with using an express activator or fast, for bigger jobs where you will need the window open to come back on your first pass, slow and medium hardners are there.

When you come to do the work be mindful of the atmosphere at the time your thinking of painting, if it's cooling off in the evenings use something like a medium activator apposed to slow, if it's later in the year and it's generally cooler all the time you may get away with a fast activator, just depends how quick you are at painting.

Personally I'd just pick up a 3L or 5L 2k primer filler kit in grey, white on white is a dick to try and check for coverage, white generally is under reds, yellows and oranges.

That one kit will do all you need really. Treat it as a filler primer on your repairs so if you have a gun with a big enough nozzle, use it neat to get a good build on there. Once your repairs are dressed and ready and you feel happy just shoot any other primer areas with 10-15% thinner in your high build and it'll just act as a good primer for you to lay your top coat onto.

You mention colour coat then lacquer.. Personally I'd just shoot the car in 2k solid, mix your colour with activator, shoot 2 coats and job done.

Whites in basecoat and lacquer are hard work, they show up any dirt in your basecoat, any that's been picked up in your lacquer and generally just make hard work of it. 2k solid colour is just easier for pale colours, any dust nibs are coloured over and can be flatted out alot easier. Plus no lacquer to worry about so keeps the job cheaper.

Link to the mask doesn't work for me but I recognise the part number. Yeah anything devilbiss is usually a good shout. I use a battery powered 3M versaflow up at work and it's fantastic, best thing I've ever bought but it works all day everyday so it's justified I guess. The devilbiss finishline range is good stuff for home use, nice and cheap as they're abit no frills, but still passed all H&S testing, plus full parts support is always nice to have.

 

Brilliant, thanks for taking your time to advise me Tom! This is all starting to make sense now.

Looks like I'll go 2k primer and top coat and leave it at that, I'm not expecting show room finish as I'm still an amateur but anything will be better than this shite paint thats on it now! I'm not sure when I'll be doing the spraying yet, I think it'll be February at the earliest as I have lots of other issues on the car to sort that I can faff around with over winter.

I may be hassling you nearer the time, I hope you don't mind!

 

[Tom Booth]

Nah no worries man. If rather help people before the job then try and remedy it after haha.

Yeah if 100% just stick with solid colour for.your application. If your used to painting 1k poly, other then adding hardner into the mix there's nothing more too it. Just get a tech sheet on your paint when you buy and you'll be good to go.

Best advise too is just practise and learn how far you can push the material before sagging or runs, just get a scrap wing and have a play and figure your gun settings etc before you get onto the car.

I painted these for Jenny's dad the other day, a pair of new wings for his 2CV. I don't paint much car stuff but always enjoy it when I do..

[dann2707]

2 hours ago, Tom Booth said:

Nah no worries man. If rather help people before the job then try and remedy it after haha.

Yeah if 100% just stick with solid colour for.your application. If your used to painting 1k poly, other then adding hardner into the mix there's nothing more too it. Just get a tech sheet on your paint when you buy and you'll be good to go.

Best advise too is just practise and learn how far you can push the material before sagging or runs, just get a scrap wing and have a play and figure your gun settings etc before you get onto the car.

I painted these for Jenny's dad the other day, a pair of new wings for his 2CV. I don't paint much car stuff but always enjoy it when I do..

Apart from my spoiler regarding your last sentence haha that was a nightmare that thing wasn't it

[Tom Booth]

Jesus I'd forgotten about that, no matter what You did the bloody thing reacted

Is that still on dude?

[dann2707]

No I sold it when I went down the weight weenie route. Then the car looked shit without it so I got another one. Now it's all one big sexy garage trophy ha

[AdamR28]

New project...

Should be sub 450kg when done:

Should be 200bhp when fitted:

(I have no idea why I can't remove the hyperlink from that photo)