bagre15 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi, I'm planning to buy a marino 24" CrMo street frame and I have some doubts about them -What's their average weight (I'm not a weight weenie, but I had an old steel marino frame that was heavy as a rock ) -What's is the average durability of the CrMo frames when compared to other street trials frames? -Are the disc mounts in the frame strong enough to stand a 203mm disc? -Do the frames have enough clearance to fit a 24" 2.5 swampything tire? And at last... What geometry would you recommend for me (old 4play, new 4play, element ...)? Since I had a Czar street trials frame that had a shitty geometry Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 dunno the answer to any of your questions, you want to ask leon or Ross, however I do wonder why no one is making air hardened trials frames, like bmx frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 if designed and made correctly chromo is better than alu for durability. Geometry is a personal choice, no one else can tell you what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hi, I'm planning to buy a marino 24" CrMo street frame and I have some doubts about them -What's their average weight (I'm not a weight weenie, but I had an old steel marino frame that was heavy as a rock ) -What's is the average durability of the CrMo frames when compared to other street trials frames? -Are the disc mounts in the frame strong enough to stand a 203mm disc? -Do the frames have enough clearance to fit a 24" 2.5 swampything tire? And at last... What geometry would you recommend for me (old 4play, new 4play, element ...)? Since I had a Czar street trials frame that had a shitty geometry Thanks - Enough, but not too much - If it snaps, re-weld it. It probably won't, because of the first point. - They will be if you help him design it right, but are 203mm discs on the rear really needed? - Yes, if you ask him to put enough clearance in to fit a 24" 2.5 swampything tire (sic) - Whatever geometry you want. It's a custom frame, i.e. get what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 mine had 2100g raw. you can even let him weld you a toilet onto your frame,theres no limitation,lol. just talk to him. as every marino is custom,the wear time differs a lot. what you build is what you get. i wanted my old marino bombproof and got 3 kg mild steel that lasts like on the first day. crmo makes it a lot lighter,so do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Borneo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I do wonder why no one is making air hardened trials frames, like bmx frames. Same although i've heard some BMX companies have stopped using it, even on decent frames. Don't know if it's a cost thing. Still can't understand why there aren't more cromo trials frames. Edited March 22, 2012 by Chris Borneo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Still can't understand why there aren't more cromo trials frames. Weight, pure and simple. Yours, happy riding an 8 year old steel frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Borneo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Think My frame is more like 10-12 years old which is why it's hardly comparable to a modern BMX frame. I'm thinkin post weld heat treated, butted 4130 with integrated headset and Spanish bb. Build a frame like that with a street trials geo and I reckon a fair few people would be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Borneo Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Imagine this with matching fork, geo of say an inspired hex or fourplay, four bolt mounts on the back and a disc on the front. Edited March 22, 2012 by Chris Borneo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) I'd just get a 24" bmx if i was looking at that! There are plenty of steel framed trials bikes out there (i've had 3 myself and one's in my garage as i type this) which do the job well enough. As much as i'm a fan of steel frames, I can't see why anyone would realistically choose one over an Inspired. People go on and on and on about strength, but i can think of only 2 or 3 Fourplays since they were released in 2007 that have broken which is bloody good going. You don't need anything stronger than what's out there at the moment. Edited March 22, 2012 by Skoze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 mine had 2100g raw. you can even let him weld you a toilet onto your frame,theres no limitation,lol. just talk to him. as every marino is custom,the wear time differs a lot. what you build is what you get. i wanted my old marino bombproof and got 3 kg mild steel that lasts like on the first day. crmo makes it a lot lighter,so do it. 2.1 kg is considerably light, it almost the same as inspired frames The marino steel frame that I had wasn't bombprof The rear end was really easy to bend, it was so easy that you could unbend it with you hands But I believe that the CrMo frame will be a lot stronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I ran a Marino frame for over a year and it was as solid when I sold it as the day I got it, despite being one of the earlier Hi-Ten frames! Came in at around 2.2kg, so the same as an Inspired at a fraction of the cost and totally custom. If the only reason you want one over an Inspired is strength then you're missing something as they're the most bombproof "off the shelf" frame you can buy. If you're looking at Marino's for other reasons then go for it - bargain price for a fully custom frame, lighter and stronger since he started building in Cromo and all round win. Get involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 if designed and made correctly chromo is better than alu for durability. Geometry is a personal choice, no one else can tell you what you want. I know that the frames are fully custom and that the geometry is a personal choice, but I would like to know how each geometry (new 4play, old 4play, element or skye) would affect the riding? In wich geometry would easier to bunnyhop, to manual or to do pedal kicks? I come from a pure trials bike and I don't know that much about street trials geometry Here's my latest video, so that you can see how my riding is I ran a Marino frame for over a year and it was as solid when I sold it as the day I got it, despite being one of the earlier Hi-Ten frames! Came in at around 2.2kg, so the same as an Inspired at a fraction of the cost and totally custom. If the only reason you want one over an Inspired is strength then you're missing something as they're the most bombproof "off the shelf" frame you can buy. If you're looking at Marino's for other reasons then go for it - bargain price for a fully custom frame, lighter and stronger since he started building in Cromo and all round win. Get involved The main reason that I chose marino is that there aren't any inspired dealers in Brazil and to buy an inspired would cost more than 1000,00 dolars, when marino will cos 300,00 dolars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 In which case go Marino, perfectly decent frames and service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Right, geometry. If you're choosing between Inspireds to copy it pretty much goes like so; Original Fourplays are around the 1040 mark, which is heavily towards the trials side when it comes to street. They rode nice don't get me wrong, but were too long in my opinion. Next is the Element, they're a little longer than the new Fourplay at around 1025 but that's in the chainstays, the rest of the geo being identical. Would pull up ever so slightly slower for manuals and hops, and be a tiny bit lazier on the back wheel. Then it's the new Fourplay which is 5mm shorter than the Element on the back end, as above it's a pretty negligible difference. Heading way over to the street side is the Skye - it's about 990 wheelbase with the bb 10mm lower than the two above. Lower bb makes it feel a bit more stable and arguably manual/ hop better, and the wheelbase is obviously well suited to spins and stuff being so short. Actually hopping around on it would've been compromised a bit in being so short but anyone buying one of these won't really be giving much of a shit about that anyway... My Leeson sits in between the Skye and new Fourplay measuring around 1010 with a +20 bb, 380 stays and a slightly steeper 74* head angle, feels ace for me but i am very tempted to try something shorter still (a la Skye) but that won't happen 'til i kill it. If you want street, go short and low, if you want trials, go long and high. Pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Right, geometry. If you're choosing between Inspireds to copy it pretty much goes like so; Original Fourplays are around the 1040 mark, which is heavily towards the trials side when it comes to street. They rode nice don't get me wrong, but were too long in my opinion. Next is the Element, they're a little longer than the new Fourplay at around 1025 but that's in the chainstays, the rest of the geo being identical. Would pull up ever so slightly slower for manuals and hops, and be a tiny bit lazier on the back wheel. Then it's the new Fourplay which is 5mm shorter than the Element on the back end, as above it's a pretty negligible difference. Heading way over to the street side is the Skye - it's about 990 wheelbase with the bb 10mm lower than the two above. Lower bb makes it feel a bit more stable and arguably manual/ hop better, and the wheelbase is obviously well suited to spins and stuff being so short. Actually hopping around on it would've been compromised a bit in being so short but anyone buying one of these won't really be giving much of a shit about that anyway... My Leeson sits in between the Skye and new Fourplay measuring around 1010 with a +20 bb, 380 stays and a slightly steeper 74* head angle, feels ace for me but i am very tempted to try something shorter still (a la Skye) but that won't happen 'til i kill it. If you want street, go short and low, if you want trials, go long and high. Pretty simple. Ok, I decided wich way to go,I'll get a Marino frame with the geometry of the newer 4play. I really love spinning tricks, but I think that the geo of skye would be to radical Thanks for the advice guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 dunno the answer to any of your questions, you want to ask leon or Ross, however I do wonder why no one is making air hardened trials frames, like bmx frames. I wondered this as well, so i took my street bike and welded on some v brake mounts. Perfect compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 i went for 1040/+60/73° for giving it a fourplay touch with an ozonys unruly backwheel behavior. looking at your riding style something like that could be worth a try. trials with street influence.great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 i went for 1040/+60/73° for giving it a fourplay touch with an ozonys unruly backwheel behavior. looking at your riding style something like that could be worth a try. trials with street influence.great This geo is close to my trials because simple. I may try to ride a shorter stem in my because, to see how it feels I've already chosen the new 4play geo. I'm really tempted to try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 If you don't know what geometry you like, don't go changing proven 'stock' geometry's. 5mm anywhere will effect the whole thing and require many things including the parts. Take your time, you will need to know the spec of the bike before choosing what the frame will be like, or you will hit issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 If you don't know what geometry you like, don't go changing proven 'stock' geometry's. 5mm anywhere will effect the whole thing and require many things including the parts. Take your time, you will need to know the spec of the bike before choosing what the frame will be like, or you will hit issues. Marino have already started building my frame, with the same geo of the new 4play. The only difference is that I will use a 25.4 seatpost instead a 27.2, I think that it won't affect the frame, is it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich J Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Nope it wont, its just a bmx sized seatpost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagre15 Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Nope it wont, its just a bmx sized seatpost. Thanks, I thought that it maybe affect the strength of the frame I'm getting BMX sized seatpost because I can't find any 27.2 pivotal seatpost here in Brazil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Here's my 24, it's basically a Skye with a slacker head angle. It weighs 4.8 lbs, an inspired Skye weighs 5.3, so weight's really not an issue with the 4130 cro-mo, don't compare them to the old steel Marino's, they're nothing alike. Biggest thing I can say is do your homework with geometry! I like my bikes but given the choice I'd still make minor adjustments. I've treated this and my 26" quite badly deliberately and nothing whatsoever has bent/cracked/broke. I mean you could just build a Marino with Skye geo, it'd be half a kilo lighter and you'd save about a grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) skye=too short frontend for backwheel moves,i think.mine is basically a skye too,but with 365 cs and same wheelbase(longer frontend),bb +20.for this little more trialsy stuff. leon your bikes awesome.how high´s the bar from the ground? Edited March 27, 2012 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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