sayshell Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Here it is the ultimate mod street frame. This is the fourth prototype so by now its utterly perfect. (unless your tall) It can do all the basic fundamentals of trials, you sacrafice a couple inches off your top numbers and you get a bike that you can do virtually anything on. Spins like a dream, manuels and nose manuels like a dream. Hops soooo easily. Total bike weight 19.1 lbs Geo 958mm wheelbase +53bb 345mm chainstays 76 degree headtube internal headset euro bb 116mm spacing dropouts 6066 aluminum construction, and all 2.2mm tubing (except seattube which is 2.0)While 7005 is harder 6066 outperforms 7005 when tested in a machine where it is vibrated till it snaps, giving a bike that can take a constant hitting without snapping. Drilled gussets to help shift stress onto the sides of the tubes instead of just the very top This thing is a tank, and still very very light. The design is optimized for the highest balance of strength to weight, and so that stress is spread as well as possible and everything that can be weight reduced is. The steeper headtube makes everything a lot nicer nose manuels are much easier, and you have more stability while doing front spins, super short chainstays make the bike really "pop" making bunnyhops effortless and manuels super in control, shorter geo helps a lot... the larger cockpit allows the bike to be short but not feel like a bmx where trials would be rendered difficult with the cramped geo. The bike is very easy to balance and your center of gravity is at a very normal height to balance stability, while still being high enough to help boost hops. The wheelbase is balanced perfectly to get the most amount of maneuver and control.. adding any length will reduce spin substantially adding only slight control, and taking away any length will reduce control substantially while adding only slight maneuverability. when you get on it feels very natural to any rider coming from both trials riders and bmxers, the geo is not radical in any way. Problem is at 500GBP its not a good price at all but that is because its highly economically inefficient to build just 1 single frame, but if a lot of people are interested it will be much much cheaper like probably half that price. I will be able to promote it a ton in my upcoming video which will be out around november this year. Another bonus is the bike doesn't look stupid, no dorky mod stem hahaha. 150 X 35 makes the perfect stem geo for this. (might be 155X35 its a trialtech sport forged) The geo is designed very well from a practical standpoint. You can run any size of front or rear cog without the chain cutting into the seatstay, and you can run bmx or trials cranks without the crankarm kicking the rear brake or chainstays. Compatibility all works very naturally, you can run the rear wheel all the way in without the brake messing up, or push it back furthur to increase the chainstay and the brake will still work perfectly. This way you have a choice to run bmx or trials drivetrain. Their is also rear dropout guards to help protect your dropout/seatstay/chainstay welds. If you drop your bike a lot and it "flops over" it can really smash up your rear end, this small bump takes all the hitting and you would need to drop it about a million times before you start chipping your welds down. Sorry I forgot to take close ups. Feel free to share feedback. The overall principle I designed the frame on is balance. Everything comes down to trading a lot of something to get a little more of something else which is how I feel most bikes are designed today. To get those extra couple inches on a hop you close a door to tons of tricks that become rendered very difficult. The opposite applies too, the bike has all the fundamentals you need to ride trials on it, you can pedal kick rail gaps and side hop without radical effort as well. This is sort of like a 20" inspired. Edited January 27, 2012 by sayshell 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Stoked man, I've been waiting on this for ages! Video please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 We have to wait till November for more head banging in fields? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 76* head angle. holy cr*p batman... good effort on trying it though dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towler Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 nice, pretty wild geo. Where do you sit down though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'd like to see this new Antitron video. I'd also like to see what Flipp can do on this bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I'd like to see this new Antitron video. I'd also like to see what Flipp can do on this bike. who is flipp? Yeah if you try it with an open mind I think its really great. Everyone who has ridden it likes it. Bmxers hop on and are busting perfect nose dived 3s first trick. I can do all the basic trials moves on it, but I would like to have a pro test it specifically for pure trials as I simply lack the skills and my wrist can't take any more trials, power moves just hurt way too much. Most people have never ridden anything like this, and their really is nothing like it on the planet. Theory means nothing unless you put it into practice, and I have. (well I have actually never ridden this frame) but I have been bashing the prototype frame previous to this one for a year. The geo has been refined multiple times, and its been given the durability test. The current prototype is twice as strong as the last one and the last one never broke. It is the exact same design as the previous version, with a few more guessets, and thicker tubing so realistically it must be much stronger. Edited January 27, 2012 by sayshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 who is flipp? aener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic3vil Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Nice project you got there. Why aluminium instead of cromoly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Geo looks sweet though personally, i would run straighter leg forks with less rake, shorter stem and higher rise bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence--Trials Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 burn it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Good on you for making a bike to your liking, pretty specific geo you have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Pretty awesome man, can't help but love it, even if i hate it Am wondering on a few things though. Is that a 19" or 20" rear wheel, can't tell. Why Hydrolics? Why bmx crankset? Why so low, and no seat? I would love to have a go, as that geo is insane. How come you kept the bb still reasonably high? I don't think i could see Flip riding that though. Definitely looking forward to your video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 As others has said, I would like a seat on it. Also a super steel head angle AND long stem? That's got to be more nervous than a gecko in a microwave! Your chain seems pretty lose too, does it have horizontal dropouts, does it actually work with the gear ratio you run? If I was to design a frame I would be making dam sure the chainstay length fitted the gear ratio I ran. not a huge fan, I think the forks kinda ruin it for me a lot but it's not my bike so it doesn't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Gibson Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Whats the crack with the lever angle? sore wrists much? As Ali said. forks look rank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzatrip Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 So its a bmx practically?? I'm confused it sounds nothin like a mod at all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 So its a bmx practically?? I'm confused it sounds nothin like a mod at all! Check out some of the Antitron vids on Youtube, should explain the design. I'm with Laurence on this one. Clifford, you're talking like you're going to go into production with it on a small scale- is that the case? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex-trials-boy Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Sorry fella does nothing for me atall! looks well...yeah, poo hitting a fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Pretty awesome man, can't help but love it, even if i hate it Am wondering on a few things though. Is that a 19" or 20" rear wheel, can't tell. Why Hydrolics? Why bmx crankset? Why so low, and no seat? I would love to have a go, as that geo is insane. How come you kept the bb still reasonably high? I don't think i could see Flip riding that though. Definitely looking forward to your video. -its a 19" rear wheel -hydrallic brakes are better, much more power much less maintaince. I run one sticky pad and one magura black pad, this way you get power when you need it but the brake doesn't "goose honk" and jerk you down when you tap it allowing you to still do manuels and stuff with good control. -bmx cranks give the best strength to weight as far as I know, I tried some trials cranks and snapped the bb, they said I needed a stronger bb, and to get one stronger it would end up being more weight than bmx cranks. I have tried lots of different isis bbs, and I have just found that 48 spline works better. It lasts forever and never develops creeking. Its a personal choice, you can obviously run either on the bike -its a low and no seat to save weight and allow easy side ways bail. I might put a seat on it not sure... The reason it is low is because I wanted the toptube to be parallel to the seatstays. This way the frame is one big triangle and folds inwards when pressure is applied compressing the top tube into the seatstays, but since they are parallel it puts the stress on the tube instead of the weld which I believe improves strength a lot I tried lower bbs, at +50 this one is a good height it feels more balanced to me but comparing 50 to this I would say most things are the same, 360s and manuels are a little easier on the higher bb, and it feels a bit easier to pull up and hop. Its pretty normal height I think, don't you run a 20" wheel? It sounds a bit high but when compared side by side with a normal bmx its exactly the same height. At the skatepark I don't even get to ride my bike hahaha everyone wants to try it. Edited January 27, 2012 by sayshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't think i could see Flip riding that though. Neither do I, I think he'd think it is too short, but it would be interesting anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) As others has said, I would like a seat on it. Also a super steel head angle AND long stem? That's got to be more nervous than a gecko in a microwave! Your chain seems pretty lose too, does it have horizontal dropouts, does it actually work with the gear ratio you run? If I was to design a frame I would be making dam sure the chainstay length fitted the gear ratio I ran. not a huge fan, I think the forks kinda ruin it for me a lot but it's not my bike so it doesn't matter. The stem isn't long, its 150X35 so its pretty short and steep and yes it does feel horrible with a normal mod stem on. I had a 170X25 and it was the worst feeling ever hahaha. The chain tension is built correctly for a 72 link chain, the problem is my chain is stretched and tarty bikes is closed so will have to use snail cams in the mean time... the fork is ugly, but as far as having a low rake reasonable geo straight blade mod fork goes its the only one in existence. I will build a custom fork eventually but I don't have the time. If people are interested then this bike can be more available. In all honesty I am thinking of just dropping the trials market entirely and selling it to the bmx market. Bmxers seem to show a lot more interest as it doesn't seem their are many mod trials riders interested in the more flowy style of riding. It allows a normal bmxer the oppertunity to do trials/static moves, and a normal trials rider to do bmx without loosing anything. My bmxer friend chad takes his custom mod off jumps and does pure bmx on it and says it rides exactly like a bmx but in 1 ride he already learned pedal kicks, up to rears sidehops, and is tiretapping 4 sets. Literally 1 ride. i wish people could base their opinions more off riding it than theorey. Fact is I really doubt any of you have tried geo remotely close to this, but if you doubt short bikes working for trials check this out.. This is on the toxsin 20.1 short which has geo shorter than my antitron frame. Too bad I am in canada or I would let people try it.. I used to actually ride a 20.1 toxsin, they are horrible lol it kills your back. its interesting but what is a normal geo bike today is radical geometry. Trials frame have progressively become more and more trials specific which is fair enough as that is what they are designed for.. but it limits the room for doing non trials specific moves. This bike has totally reasonable geo but it sounds radical because everyone is used to riding radical geo. Edited January 28, 2012 by sayshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The Geo of your frame is very similar to a bmx, short back end, mid bb height, steep head angle, so I can imagine with a certain build it could ride alright, I just can't get over the look of it though, it's just so.......ugly I still think that stem is long for the steepness on the head tube angle, I know the angle of the stem will make it shorter than 150mm, but it still won't be close to ~50mm like a bmx and they can be twichy even with 74 degree head angles. I have found riding someone elses 24" with a 76 degree head angle and short 60mm stem that when carving for a 3 hop the bike almost wants to jack knife. I guess you have your bars VERY swept back which will bring things back a little more but it just seems a random way to do it, could get a BMX bar and stem on there and it will be stronger and potentially look nicer. Not convinced about your argument of the frame being stronger straight like that either and if you are struggling getting off the side of a bike with a seat I would be concerned. Nicks Triton with a seat and 20" wheel is the nicest cross over mod I have seen yet, I think it's just been done is a better way. Not tempted by disc brakes at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic3vil Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The bike looks strange, I like in a weird way but I can't see the point as a product. What I like on my 24" is the fact that it feels and looks like a normal bicycle. I used to ride short mods and do street riding but I got to the point that I felt I was using the wrong tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) The Geo of your frame is very similar to a bmx, short back end, mid bb height, steep head angle, so I can imagine with a certain build it could ride alright, I just can't get over the look of it though, it's just so.......ugly I still think that stem is long for the steepness on the head tube angle, I know the angle of the stem will make it shorter than 150mm, but it still won't be close to ~50mm like a bmx and they can be twichy even with 74 degree head angles. I have found riding someone elses 24" with a 76 degree head angle and short 60mm stem that when carving for a 3 hop the bike almost wants to jack knife. I guess you have your bars VERY swept back which will bring things back a little more but it just seems a random way to do it, could get a BMX bar and stem on there and it will be stronger and potentially look nicer. Not convinced about your argument of the frame being stronger straight like that either and if you are struggling getting off the side of a bike with a seat I would be concerned. Nicks Triton with a seat and 20" wheel is the nicest cross over mod I have seen yet, I think it's just been done is a better way. Not tempted by disc brakes at all? The cockpit distance is good, I have tried bmx bars and stems and its way to cramped. Not sure why you think its ugly, it looks good for a mod I think. I think it looks really nice, really straight clean look. I guess you get used to it, but for people saying it looks ugly I think you are just trolling... compared to a normal mod it really doesn't look that different. Trials bars and stems are much lighter and quite durable and the geo is preferable, if the cockpit gets any smaller trials becomes really crumby. so I would prefer to keep it as is + the brakes are hard to mount as the lever clamp hits the curved part of the bar. I am not saying the seat makes it harder to get off the side, I am saying a higher toptube would. The carve is good, its not too twitchy or sticky. For disc brakes I don't mind them up front, but I usually carry two sets of pads with me when I ride, squealers and slowers and interchange them if depending what I feel like riding on. I don't want them in the back because I can't run them... if they make a 116 disc hub I could, but I hate track cogs and fixed hubs, they totally fack up your manuels so hs-33 is only option for now and hopefully someday their will be a better 116 10mm freehub than profile. If you think it looks dorky.. their is absolutely nothing I can do, but ask your self how does a bmx or regular mod look any less dorky? The only reason people don't think a bmx looks dorky is cause lots of people ride bmxes so its normal and accepted. Some pretentious road biker would say your 24" inspired looks dorky... Appearance isn't a valid reason to change the core fundamentals of the bike. This bike is optimized in this priority... 1)Strength... Must be safe never break ever... You land smooth you land rough it doesn't break.. you ride the way you want and it lasts period... Strength = safety... 2)Geo... it must be well balanced geo that allows you to do what the part is designed for, though this bike focuses slightly more on doing kinetic moves i didn't take away its ability to ride static, everything you need is there. 3) Weight.. everything that can be saved is saved 4) Appearance.. as far as appearance goes the only thing I care about is colour.. people saying a super low frame designed to save weight and improve strength look stupid is like saying a ferrari looks stupid because its appearance is all performance based and doesn't look like a conventional car, and it does look stupid you just are prejudice against the appearance of my bike, but have accepted a ferrari as a good looking car cause its common and fed to you that it looks good. If you ride then you would agree with me that these priorities are by far the most pragmatic logical way to design a frame... and on my priorities I am sure as hell not going to jeopardize weight, geo, or strength to improve looks. That would be like making a Ferrari shaped like an SUV so its more "normal looking" learn to appreciate the appearance is what I am getting at. This is the 4th and final prototype. I haven't built one of these this is the 4th time I have tweaked the geo to get it perfect, and I can safely say nothing can be improved. Edited January 28, 2012 by sayshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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