monkeyseemonkeydo Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here is a picture of a horse: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 tidy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, that seemed to be logical but I spoke to Adam from Tarty today and we concluded that I should just get a tall headset and Bob's your uncle. I spent the whole day looking for tall headsets, the tallest one I found was a 32mm Token. Didn't think this would be good enough though so didn't buy it. 104mm + 32mm = 136mm which is literally on the borderline. We're going to see if we can't machine something that will solve the problem. Either a custom top cup or the top part of the headset (not sure what it's called). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Borneo Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Good call I reckon. I've had bad experiences with Token stuff. Found the quality to be seriously lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 So can we agree that a taller headset is not a remedy to this problem? I may be being dim but.... Is the insert not just to save the steerer at the point where the stem clamps onto the steerer? and the 135mm would give the minimum safe point you could clamp to ? As said before surely its where the races that actually contact the fork that matter in any other respect, and a 135mm line seems a bit odd, given the use of high rise stems and low stack heights in the past ? Even with the Sky with its perfect 135mm stack surely the insert is going to create a weaker point even if the insert goes below the top race height? Just makes me think its more about the clamping than the flexing... As for the rest of the topic, well I'm sure there used to be this dog that got dressed up for mega lolz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 This was Daves idea by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 This was Daves idea by the way. Schlurp schlurp schlurp. you like that Dave? Good bit of rimming to end the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I may be being dim but.... Is the insert not just to save the steerer at the point where the stem clamps onto the steerer? and the 135mm would give the minimum safe point you could clamp to ? As said before surely its where the races that actually contact the fork that matter in any other respect, and a 135mm line seems a bit odd, given the use of high rise stems and low stack heights in the past ? Even with the Sky with its perfect 135mm stack surely the insert is going to create a weaker point even if the insert goes below the top race height? Just makes me think its more about the clamping than the flexing... As for the rest of the topic, well I'm sure there used to be this dog that got dressed up for mega lolz. the insert is for the star nut to be fitted into, also stopping the steerer from being crushed. the insert ends at around 125mm fromn the crown so they have given a bit of an overlap. im glad people are starting to see my point here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Yes, that seemed to be logical but I spoke to Adam from Tarty today and we concluded that I should just get a tall headset and Bob's your uncle. I spent the whole day looking for tall headsets, the tallest one I found was a 32mm Token. Didn't think this would be good enough though so didn't buy it. 104mm + 32mm = 136mm which is literally on the borderline. We're going to see if we can't machine something that will solve the problem. Either a custom top cup or the top part of the headset (not sure what it's called). you should be able to use the echo frame you have with a chris king headset rather than an echo which should give you a stack height of 135mm plus, save buying a new frame i make it to be 136mm +/- .10mm total stack height 31.4mm Edited January 17, 2012 by dave33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Got an at least temporary solution. Looked through some trials headsets and found the Bonz top cup to be perfect. The split ring which comes in contact with the steerer is on the very top of the headset which is also a pretty tall one. Neon bottom cup was the fattest I could find (colour doesn't match unfortunately ), it also has a thick base plate which adds another 1mm to the stack height. Now at 137mm, however there is a spacer underneath the top cup. Not keen on this. It could be an idea to look for a headset which has really long head tube inserts, that way one could safely place a fat spacer between the top cup and the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Got an at least temporary solution. Looked through some trials headsets and found the Bonz top cup to be perfect. The split ring which comes in contact with the steerer is on the very top of the headset which is also a pretty tall one. Neon bottom cup was the fattest I could find (colour doesn't match unfortunately ), it also has a thick base plate which adds another 1mm to the stack height. Now at 137mm, however there is a spacer underneath the top cup. Not keen on this. It could be an idea to look for a headset which has really long head tube inserts, that way one could safely place a fat spacer between the top cup and the frame. the red is the insert in the tube the blue is top of headset black being the spacer yellow the shear point its kool if tarty have agreed to using the spacer, but just take care and keep an eye on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i like cunning stunts Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Unsure whether to pop an insert in mine just for peace of mind even though my stack height is above 135. They do feel solid though was hooking with them at the weekend and they feel really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Reynolds Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Greetings, if your not a weight weenie, you mean something like this? My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The spacer is underneath the cup, not above it and no, Tarty did not agree to this because I only just came up with the idea. It saves having to make a new top cup, instead all one needs to make is a nice fat and tight spacer which will go underneath the cup. Would need to buy a headset which has really long inserts but that's not a problem. Not too bothered about weight at the moment, the fork is bloody stiff and already feels so much better than the Echo SL even though I've only done some pivots and front wheel hops on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Greetings, if your not a weight weenie, you mean something like this? My link did you read the spec? the headset has the same stack height as the normal alu one. you could probly get away with putting sort kind of spacer over the bit that is pressed in as that part is so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Reynolds Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 did you read the spec? the headset has the same stack height as the normal alu one. you could probly get away with putting sort kind of spacer over the bit that is pressed in as that part is so long Thats what i was referring to You put a spacer between the headset and the frame, so the bearing races are further apart, but you still get loads of headset inserted into the frame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 The spacer is underneath the cup, not above it and no, Tarty did not agree to this because I only just came up with the idea. It saves having to make a new top cup, instead all one needs to make is a nice fat and tight spacer which will go underneath the cup. Would need to buy a headset which has really long inserts but that's not a problem. Not too bothered about weight at the moment, the fork is bloody stiff and already feels so much better than the Echo SL even though I've only done some pivots and front wheel hops on it. ha yes beat me to it, i can make you a cup which is higher to accept the echo bearing if you need Unsure whether to pop an insert in mine just for peace of mind even though my stack height is above 135. They do feel solid though was hooking with them at the weekend and they feel really good. i was chatting to Iciar van den bergh about the forks awhile ago, hes been running them with the sky frame which has the higher headtube and hasnt snapped a pair and i think he was one of the first people to start using them after vince. hes a real best at hooking, in the other hand a small incert isnt gonna weight much so up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i like cunning stunts Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 That's good to know because he's a weapon, I've got a few pairs of bars I can use to chop the end off may aswel probably put 10g / 20g on the weight which is not a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah, definitely going to do that insert. Adam recommends using slow setting araldite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 i was chatting to Iciar van den bergh about the forks awhile ago, hes been running them with the sky frame which has the higher headtube and hasnt snapped a pair and i think he was one of the first people to start using them after vince. That's not 100% true... I'd say run an insert or risk loosing your front teeth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i like cunning stunts Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Spanner in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 That's not 100% true... I'd say run an insert or risk loosing your front teeth! Maybe it's because he was trying to sell me some, looks like that incert is the answer! Any pics where you can see the frame he's uses ben ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 That's not 100% true... I'd say run an insert or risk loosing your front teeth! ooooooooo, the plot thickens...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Which frame does Iciar use? I recognise the name but don't really know much about him. If it's a Sky 2, it'd be interesting to know whether he's got the 'new' Sky 2 or the 'old' Sky 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Which frame does Iciar use? I recognise the name but don't really know much about him. If it's a Sky 2, it'd be interesting to know whether he's got the 'new' Sky 2 or the 'old' Sky 2... He now has the newer sky 2 but I would guess that he was on the sky 1 when he snapped the forks, same frame as vince was on when he snapped his forks at val d seare What's the stack head of the sky 1 mark ? Around 117mm with the headset at a guess ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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