dave33 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 bit of a strange argument considering each type of riding puts different stresses through forks. I can't think of any moves that put more stress through the forks than hooks and gaps to front. Apart from crashing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bing Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I can't think of any moves that put more stress through the forks than hooks and gaps to front. Apart from crashing not arguing ali, was merely saying what i thought, and carthy rides street with us, we ride natty with him and he is extremely good at tgs when he comes out street riding, ie firing a 26" wheel bike straight up a 6ft high wall and hooking on at the top. and he hasn`t broke his karbons yet. no more argument? in my mind you cant get a better endorsement than one from a world champion, so it doesnt matter if someone else says they are shit or good, thats just their own opinion. if he uses them, they must be good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 it's just saying that just because he's a world champion means they get the best testing, I think that may not be true. Plus he is (currently) junior world champ so that won't be as harsh on forks as the elite routes (I do know he is capable of the elite routes before you say). To be World champ you have to have some pretty dialled techniques and ride in an efficient way. I think that wouldn't be as much of a test as someone who doesn't have as good technique and relies on forcing the bike around with brute force. As Dave said too, falling off can be pretty brutal on forks, I bet there are riders out there that fall off more than Jack does. Don't get me wrong, I think these forks are pretty good, if you run a front magura forks generally don't last long and if you don't want the weight of Trialtechs then the Karbons are a good (if pricy) option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 no more argument? ...in a sense, but Jack also uses - for example - the Try-All Carbon bars, and I wouldn't recommend them for everyone to use either. Bearing in mind how scratched up and haggard a lot of people's bikes get, I don't think carbon fibre stuff's a solution to everyone's problems. EDIT: For example, a couple of weeks ago I fell off a wall and grated the shit out of my fork leg down the corner of a load of brickwork. On a pair of aluminium forks it's not really a problem, but on a pair of carbon fibre forks it'd be much more of an issue. A lot of people just batter their bikes around which Jack doesn't seem to, so for him they'll work fine - as that's their intended use - but if you're a basher they're not going to last as long even if the actual level of riding is lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 ...in a sense, but Jack also uses - for example - the Try-All Carbon bars, and I wouldn't recommend them for everyone to use either. Bearing in mind how scratched up and haggard a lot of people's bikes get, I don't think carbon fibre stuff's a solution to everyone's problems. EDIT: For example, a couple of weeks ago I fell off a wall and grated the shit out of my fork leg down the corner of a load of brickwork. On a pair of aluminium forks it's not really a problem, but on a pair of carbon fibre forks it'd be much more of an issue. A lot of people just batter their bikes around which Jack doesn't seem to, so for him they'll work fine - as that's their intended use - but if you're a basher they're not going to last as long even if the actual level of riding is lower. To be fair, jack snaps alloy forks in 2 weeks, so it shows how much stress his forks are put through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 4 bolt forks tend to be pretty weak though, he isn't the only rider who goes through them quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 To be fair, jack snaps alloy forks in 2 weeks, so it shows how much stress his forks are put through f**k me. I'll highlight the key sections for you. ...in a sense, but Jack also uses - for example - the Try-All Carbon bars, and I wouldn't recommend them for everyone to use either. Bearing in mind how scratched up and haggard a lot of people's bikes get, I don't think carbon fibre stuff's a solution to everyone's problems. EDIT: For example, a couple of weeks ago I fell off a wall and grated the shit out of my fork leg down the corner of a load of brickwork. On a pair of aluminium forks it's not really a problem, but on a pair of carbon fibre forks it'd be much more of an issue. A lot of people just batter their bikes around which Jack doesn't seem to, so for him they'll work fine - as that's their intended use - but if you're a basher they're not going to last as long even if the actual level of riding is lower. Is that clearer for you? Scratches and gouges in carbon fibre bars and forks weaken them more than they do on a comparative aluminium product. Riders ride differently, and some tend to hit their bikes more than others. For example Stan's forks are pretty pristine, but Cap's forks look a bit haggard despite them being younger. As a result, I'd imagine a pair of carbon forks would last Stan longer than they would Cap, even though their level of riding is similar. Stan's been running carbon bars for quite some time too and they look pretty much mint, whereas Cap's Trialtech High Rise bars look like they've been thrown in a cement mixer despite them being less than half the age of Stan's bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 To be fair, jack snaps alloy forks in 2 weeks, so it shows how much stress his forks are put through You don´t get it dave,do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 f**k me. I'll highlight the key sections for you. Is that clearer for you? Scratches and gouges in carbon fibre bars and forks weaken them more than they do on a comparative aluminium product. Riders ride differently, and some tend to hit their bikes more than others. For example Stan's forks are pretty pristine, but Cap's forks look a bit haggard despite them being younger. As a result, I'd imagine a pair of carbon forks would last Stan longer than they would Cap, even though their level of riding is similar. Stan's been running carbon bars for quite some time too and they look pretty much mint, whereas Cap's Trialtech High Rise bars look like they've been thrown in a cement mixer despite them being less than half the age of Stan's bars. so whats that got to do with jack snapping his forks? he doesnt fall off ever really. my comment was in reply to what ali said about having perfect tech and not really putting that much strees through the forks, and bike. gostrider- whats you point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 so whats that got to do with jack snapping his forks? he doesnt fall off ever really. my comment was in reply to what ali said about having perfect tech and not really putting that much strees through the forks, and bike. gostrider- whats you point? My point is that you are saying that those forks are great for everyone,because few top riders use them...Most people would kill them in shorter period of time than carthy,not because they ride better in terms of size of the moves,but because they ride differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 If I drove a Formula 1 car, in all it's carbon glory and with my lack of comparative driving skill, I'd probably stack it into the nearest tree. At 40mph that'd probably make it completely undriveable, whereas an F1 driver wouldn't have even seen the tree, let alone been going slow enough to hit it. Specialist kit in the right hands. If I ran a set of these carbon forks, it's massively likely that I'd scuff them to the point of being unusable within about 3 hours. I'd probably manage that while only trying to hop up a curb. Point being, Jack rides ever so slightly (...) differently to the rest of us. Just because they don't break for someone who knows how to make the best out of his kit doesn't mean they won't for others who don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 My point is that you are saying that those forks are great for everyone,because few top riders use them...Most people would kill them in shorter period of time than carthy,not because they ride better in terms of size of the moves,but because they ride differently. Sorry but now your just talking rubish! Iv not never said any thing of the sort, iv never said they won't snap if you batter them into rocks/ Walls all the time. Only time well tell how long they last when they get smashed about, wait and see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted January 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Got the fork and I finally understand what people have been talking about in this thread. It's a perfect fit. Either way it's winter so I'll take up the matter of installing and riding this fork in a few months. Thought I'd get them on the bike to see how they look like, but there's a sticker in the way stopping me from getting it all put together. Sticker ends roughtly where the 135mm mark is. Clever. I hope scratching it up a bit doesn't influence warranty. And if it's not meant to be obstructed by a headset top race then I can't see how it's possible to mount this even on a Chris King headset. Edited January 16, 2012 by Greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Got the fork and I finally understand what people have been talking about in this thread. It's a perfect fit. Either way it's winter so I'll take up the matter of installing and riding this fork in a few months. Thought I'd get them on the bike to see how they look like, but there's a sticker in the way stopping me from getting it all put together. Sticker ends roughtly where the 135mm mark is. Clever. I hope scratching it up a bit doesn't influence warranty. And if it's not meant to be obstructed by a headset top race then I can't see how it's possible to mount this even on a Chris King headset. The problem is that Is a perfect fit with the Alu insert but not the carbon tube, so it's in fresh air? What is that by the way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 so whats that got to do with jack snapping his forks? he doesnt fall off ever really. I'll go through it again then. just remember, jack carthy is a WORLD CHAMPION. if they are good enough for him, regardless of spec, they are good enough for the mere mortal riding natty/tgs/street. argument is over in my opinion Ali (and me to an extent) was saying that that wasn't the case. I was saying that they aren't 'good enough' for everyone because some people tend to batter their shit more. I wasn't saying Jack was, in fact I was saying the total opposite. For Jack's use they're ideal as has been basically proven by him not having broken them yet. For more 'ordinary' rider they'd potentially break sooner, hence: Bearing in mind how scratched up and haggard a lot of people's bikes get, I don't think carbon fibre stuff's a solution to everyone's problems. EDIT: For example, a couple of weeks ago I fell off a wall and grated the shit out of my fork leg down the corner of a load of brickwork. On a pair of aluminium forks it's not really a problem, but on a pair of carbon fibre forks it'd be much more of an issue. A lot of people just batter their bikes around which Jack doesn't seem to, so for him they'll work fine - as that's their intended use - but if you're a basher they're not going to last as long even if the actual level of riding is lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I'll go through it again then. Ali (and me to an extent) was saying that that wasn't the case. I was saying that they aren't 'good enough' for everyone because some people tend to batter their shit more. I wasn't saying Jack was, in fact I was saying the total opposite. For Jack's use they're ideal as has been basically proven by him not having broken them yet. For more 'ordinary' rider they'd potentially break sooner, hence: Still doesn't have any thing to do with jack snapping his alloy forks in 1/2 weeks? Any way we are way past that point now, now on to ways of improving the fork by incerts etc Maybe you should stay well clear of the forks incase your worried about ruffing them up No point using these unless they are going to used to their potential Edited January 16, 2012 by dave33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) f**k me. I'll highlight the key sections for you. Is that clearer for you? Scratches and gouges in carbon fibre bars and forks weaken them more than they do on a comparative aluminium product. Riders ride differently, and some tend to hit their bikes more than others. For example Stan's forks are pretty pristine, but Cap's forks look a bit haggard despite them being younger. As a result, I'd imagine a pair of carbon forks would last Stan longer than they would Cap, even though their level of riding is similar. Stan's been running carbon bars for quite some time too and they look pretty much mint, whereas Cap's Trialtech High Rise bars look like they've been thrown in a cement mixer despite them being less than half the age of Stan's bars. wow you learn something new every day I thought Cap and stan were the same entity, Capt'n Stan, scuse my ignorance. Edited January 16, 2012 by Matt Vandart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Still doesn't have any thing to do with jack snapping his alloy forks in 1/2 weeks? No, and I wasn't talking about that at any point. I didn't really understand why you kept bringing it up when I was talking about something totally different. I'm not talking about people being scared of 'roughing up' their forks - it's well-known that getting chips, scratches and gouges (and so on) in carbon fibre parts weakens them more so than it would do on an equivalent aluminium part, so I was just saying (which I thought was pretty clear seeing as other people seemed to get the point instantly) that they aren't suitable for everyone just because they're suitable for a world champion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, and I wasn't talking about that at any point. I didn't really understand why you kept bringing it up when I was talking about something totally different. I'm not talking about people being scared of 'roughing up' their forks - it's well-known that getting chips, scratches and gouges (and so on) in carbon fibre parts weakens them more so than it would do on an equivalent aluminium part, so I was just saying (which I thought was pretty clear seeing as other people seemed to get the point instantly) that they aren't suitable for everyone just because they're suitable for a world champion... yes fair enough, but ll try and explain better so you get my point, jack snaps alu in 1/2 weeks, there for high stress to do that. ali said that hes got very good technique so doesnt necessarily put loads of stress throught them but jack hasnt snapped the karbons yet, so i conclude that they must be very strong so far now only the steer tube is of questionable strength how to improve this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 alloy forks with magura mounts on are never strong though. The Trialtech's are the strongest of the alloy forks and they still eventually go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 alloy forks with magura mounts on are never strong though. The Trialtech's are the strongest of the alloy forks and they still eventually go. eventuallty? less than a month is pretty fast even for a material like aluminium which suffers from fatigue so you could say thats a big weak point when you compare the karbons so called weak point is that they may suffer from weaknes due to marks and chips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 the 4 bolt mounts on the carbon forks don't seem to suffer and break like alloy forks do, so yeah you could say that weak point has been removed, however saying they are the best forks for everyone just because Jack hasn't broken a pair still may not be the case as Mark was trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Whoa there champ I'm not saying they are/aren't the best forks, all I was saying was that they probably aren't suitable for a lot of riders even though Jack's not broken a set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) the 4 bolt mounts on the carbon forks don't seem to suffer and break like alloy forks do, so yeah you could say that weak point has been removed, however saying they are the best forks for everyone just because Jack hasn't broken a pair still may not be the case as Mark was trying to say. iv never said these are the best forks ever, iv never said that trialtechs are the worst either Whoa there champ I'm not saying they are/aren't the best forks, all I was saying was that they probably aren't suitable for a lot of riders even though Jack's not broken a set... im not champ, maybe you mean chap.... again when did i say thats these forks are so every one? apart from just then< all i have done is point out what i see as good points of these forks now can we get back on track? Edited January 16, 2012 by dave33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 This shit's getting really old now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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