ghostrider88 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think the headtube is shorter than the standard 110mm. Still i don't see why you need a mod stem when your running Trialtech highriser bars. +70mm BB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0zzy Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah, but generally not like this: Thats a crack not a snap though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah, but generally not like this: should i have added an aluminium frame? i doubt thats caused by to many hooks, looks like a sky double disc, hooking a double disc 26 isnt that easy. i wouldnt be surprised if the owner had ever done and hooks on it, but then again i could be totally wrong lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) should i have added an aluminium frame? i doubt thats caused by to many hooks, looks like a sky double disc, hooking a double disc 26 isnt that easy. i wouldnt be surprised if the owner had ever done and hooks on it, but then again i could be totally wrong lol It isn´t DD It´s purple sky. http://www.tribalzine.com/IMG/jpg/Koxx_Purple_Sky_2010.jpg Edited January 5, 2012 by ghostrider88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Dave, I'm confused. Firstly, I'm not sure how the hell you worked out from that picture that it must have been built into a dual disc bike. Secondly, surely the rear brake makes approximately f**k all difference when hooking, so being dual disc shouldn't really make any difference there. Thirdly, does running a front disc rather than a rim brake rule them out or something? I mean, people seem to have them dialled brakeless and they look even smoother then, so it can't be the be-all and end-all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Frooooom the top: Like open in the weld area... Simon is refering to the old Sky frames, a few of which broke like mine did where the head tube literally just splits open. I think we had 3-4 frames in total which did that. One was just in a box in the warehouse... should i have added an aluminium frame? i doubt thats caused by to many hooks, looks like a sky double disc, hooking a double disc 26 isnt that easy. i wouldnt be surprised if the owner had ever done and hooks on it, but then again i could be totally wrong lol That particular one was mine, and it got hooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Dave, I'm confused. Firstly, I'm not sure how the hell you worked out from that picture that it must have been built into a dual disc bike. Secondly, surely the rear brake makes approximately f**k all difference when hooking, so being dual disc shouldn't really make any difference there. Thirdly, does running a front disc rather than a rim brake rule them out or something? I mean, people seem to have them dialled brakeless and they look even smoother then, so it can't be the be-all and end-all. Llike I said i could be wrong! I guessed that it was double disc, but wrong colour, and regarding double disc 26 the spokes and wheels flex loads, compared with magura which makes them harder to hook! I think hooking brakeless is going to put much more stress through the frame and forks, yea it may look smooth! I still stand by what I said as to the crack I don't think that's caused by hooking When it comes to hooking I think they are one of the more tricky moves to learn so the majority of riders don't do them so for the 4 frames they had back surely the odds that's all the 4 owners did loads of hooks with them is pretty slim, so it suggests that the crack was caused by stress from something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanPGreen Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Love that frame!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Llike I said i could be wrong! I guessed that it was double disc, but wrong colour, and regarding double disc 26 the spokes and wheels flex loads, compared with magura which makes them harder to hook! I think hooking brakeless is going to put much more stress through the frame and forks, yea it may look smooth! I still stand by what I said as to the crack I don't think that's caused by hooking When it comes to hooking I think they are one of the more tricky moves to learn so the majority of riders don't do them so for the 4 frames they had back surely the odds that's all the 4 owners did loads of hooks with them is pretty slim, so it suggests that the crack was caused by stress from something else Right - going back to Simon's original point, the Sky frames were known to break - like mine did - through the head tube. This isn't caused by anything riding related. We had two frames break sitting in boxes. I think we had 4 or so, but I know other dealers around the world had frames returned which did the same thing to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Right - going back to Simon's original point, the Sky frames were known to break - like mine did - through the head tube. This isn't caused by anything riding related. We had two frames break sitting in boxes. I think we had 4 or so, but I know other dealers around the world had frames returned which did the same thing to. They might crack while headset beeing instaled?That´s what I would expect in such a weird case.What do you think M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sounds like it's a heat treatment issue then, which doesn't have to affect the zhi framesSounds like it's a heat treatment issue then, which doesn't have to affect the zhi frames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sounds like it's a heat treatment issue then, which doesn't have to affect the zhi frames Not necessarily,K-Alone was known to be brittle and the crack isn´t located in the weld either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 They might crack while headset beeing instaled?That´s what I would expect in such a weird case.What do you think M? Mine wasn't cracked when the original headset on the bike was installed, and it wasn't cracked when I installed (and uninstalled) my Echo headset. I think temperature (and temperature changes) might be a factor, but judging from other information we've had I think it could be something to do with the actual manufacturing specifically of those head tubes - which is also un-related to the heat treatment used on them. EDIT: This was Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 but judging from other information we've had I think it could be something to do with the actual manufacturing specifically of those head tubes - which is also un-related to the heat treatment used on them. really? please explain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 That looks like post weld shrinkage to I. there is going to have been alot of heat in the area outlined in red where the weld has been run over a previous weld, which is probably not a good idea anyway depending on the period between the 2 weld. Coupled with the probably relatively strong part I have highlighted in yellow when it shrunk it would have 'peeled away' if you get me when it cooled. my guess is this headtube is cast rather than forged? Even if it was a riding related failure (which we know it isn't) it would be from heavy taps not hooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 where the crack is is really thin too, thinner than Koxx wanted I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Llike I said i could be wrong! I guessed that it was double disc, but wrong colour, and regarding double disc 26 the spokes and wheels flex loads, compared with magura which makes them harder to hook! I think hooking brakeless is going to put much more stress through the frame and forks, yea it may look smooth! I'm confused. How do you hook ? The technique is surely the same with or without brakes, and if anything I would have thought with brakes would stress things more? Im also confused as to how dd compared to maggy makes a hook harder. I get that you get more flex in spokes on braking but that would only be at the point you land on top on the rear wheel with the brake on = no real difference in actually making the move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 brakeless hooks ftw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 brakeless hooks ftw They look really cool,but I really don´t understand how you can do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 weight forwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 They look really cool,but I really don´t understand how you can do it I dont really understand how you would do it with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm confused. How do you hook ? The technique is surely the same with or without brakes, and if anything I would have thought with brakes would stress things more? Im also confused as to how dd compared to maggy makes a hook harder. I get that you get more flex in spokes on braking but that would only be at the point you land on top on the rear wheel with the brake on = no real difference in actually making the move? If you think about what happens to the frame and forks when u hook it might help, the headtubes being pulled apart, and the wheels not being locked can only allow the wheelbase to be flexed even more! Putting more stress through the headtube. When the wheels are locked the tyres are acting as anchor points stopping the amount of flex, with rim brakes the wheels won't move, with disc brakes the wheels will move a bit because of the flex from spokes etc.. It's probably just as easy to try and hook a double disc 26 then a magy if any local riders have them to see for yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I guess the difference will be more/less apparent dependant on technique? With a brakeless hook it's almost an extension of rolling up the wall where as a lot of people (with brakes) seem to almost drop into the position and hang a bit, then give another load of force to get it up (or so she says). The latter will put the bike under lots more tension and probably snap forks etc far more than the way most people do them brakeless where the front wheel is almost constantly moving forward and the rest of the bike pivots round, rotating onto the wall rather than using the whole bike as a spring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 weight forwards Even when I lean forward I cannot get the bike on the obstacle,like I only jump straight up and not forward But to be honest,I don´t like the hooks very much,so it doesn´t bother me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 really? please explain... No. Matt - you're right about them being cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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