dart89 Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 There seem to be quite a few downsides to this setup that sort of outweigh any possible plus points to it. I think changing to a TR lever might be a bad thing too - different piston sizes for a start, plus you'd be changing it from an open to a closed system so you'd be losing the auto-adjust sort of feature? I thought about it, and I had an idea, use a thick (2mm) between pad and rim when I bleed the brake, then (once removed) should work like a normal brake HS / Echo! p.s:I want to clarify that I am not the manufacturer of the brakes! 'm just a friend of the owner of the CSC Chinese brand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 I love the idea of this, sounds like it could make the whole interface that bit better. However, my suggestion would be, work around the idea you have. The idea that the slaves self adjust like a disc brake is a good one PROVIDED your rim is arrow straight as said in the photos. This could easy eliminate a large number of riders form buying the brake as it would be more hassle than its worth. Id make the slaves pistons integrated into the slave (like maguras are),complete with the little 'nib' that the pads clip onto, and then use your idea of integrated clamps and the adjustable rotating pad guides for rotational alignment. Work on a nice CNC'd lever unit without the reservoir too. I for one am dreading moving to 2011 Maguras when my 2005 dies because I hate the look of the newer model. 05 Maguras were/are massively popular, so maybe work around that and include them with a nice long lever blade as standard, and a 2 bolt bar clamp to eliminate the need to remove your grips when needing to remove the brake unit. I could see them being hugely popular. Use a conventional magura style TPA system too. Allows the use of different width rims and lever bite points to suit individual people. Just my idea. Thats how I'd do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 To use a conventional TPA system it'd have to be a closed system though ideally, so the 'benefit' of having an open system would be lost. The other downside is much the same as any non-adjustable clamps - not all rims have vertical sidewalls, and no frames have faced mounts straight from the factory, so they're basically all going to require some prep-work to try and get it right. The main thing that concerns me, having seen people snap M5 bolts tightening their Maguras up and stripping frame threads from overtightening them, are the tiny little bolts to do up on the little adjuster plate. I can just see people absolutely annihilating them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 The idea of not using the closed system and TPA system was to allow people to run them without having to worry about their wheels being millimetre perfect. I can see what you mean about the small bolts though. Maybe then they should just develop another alternative to the Hs33. Could see them being really popular if it was done right, and sold at the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 It irritates me when my brake rubs at all, I don't think I'd like a brake like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Trials Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Couldn't stand a brake that rubbed the whole time, that's all I have to say really although with a bit of tweaking it could be decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) Id make the slaves pistons integrated into the slave (like maguras are),complete with the little 'nib' that the pads clip onto, and then use your idea of integrated clamps and the adjustable rotating pad guides for rotational alignment. To use a conventional TPA system it'd have to be a closed system though ideally, so the 'benefit' of having an open system would be lost. The main thing that concerns me, having seen people snap M5 bolts tightening their Maguras up and stripping frame threads from overtightening them, are the tiny little bolts to do up on the little adjuster plate. I can just see people absolutely annihilating them... How do, very nice design there, just the fact that no split clamps are needed is good enough for me . But i've gotta say i agree with the statements above, partly anyway. With the slaves, i wouldnt integrate the pistons like magura have done. The problem with maguras design is the fact you cant easily clean anything, leading to having to replace slaves. Why not make them dismantleable? (is that a word????) Securing a spring at the front of the piston with a small plate, or even a circlip, would improve this design ten fold. Surely a tpa can be used with an open system, if not, how do hope add the adjustment on the lever of the tech? I'm sure that had a pad adjustment dial? I dont think snapping would be a problem with bolts of that size, but the rounding of the heads would come thick and fast. Why not have a look at increasing the thickness of the lock ring to allow for a counterbore? You can then use cap heads and remove that problem (partly anyway, most of the time cag handedness is the main problem ) Hope it all goes well though, nice to see something different to a magura re-make . Cheers, Josh. Edited December 10, 2011 by Rob Leech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Surely a tpa can be used with an open system, if not, how do hope add the adjustment on the lever of the tech? I'm sure that had a pad adjustment dial? They sooooort of do, but it's not quite the same as a TPA. TPAs generally act more 'directly' if that makes sense. You're directly affecting the push-rod with a TPA setup, but with the BPC on the Tech lever it's not quite like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstant Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 LOVE the integrated clamp and threaded slave adjustment. Really innovative. But I think that a closed system would appeal more to the trials market given how obsessive many of us are about brake setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4stars Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 i think/hope the general concept of this will be the beginning of a new style hydraulic rim brake perhaps it could help the guys and girls if people came up with a list of negative points about the hs33/echo type clamping slave? most of those problems must be able to be solved in some way? i like the idea of fixed clamps and a threaded turning mechanism to adjust how close/far to the pad is to the rim if there was some way though to have the clamp made to allow for tilting upwards/downwards (depeding on the angle of the rim)? i have in my mind a lockable pivoting clamp....where the slave is connected as it is now to the clamp, but the parts of the clamp that connect to the frame at either side are attached to the centre clamp via some sort of lockable pivot? (you know how an old cannon is attached to a base, but connected to the barrel via a pivot - that sort of thing) a fully adjustable hope tech type of lever would finish it off nicely (if somehow designed in a similar fashion to the machined echo sl levers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dart89 Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks to everyone for the advice and opinions! as someone said the problems I encountered are the following: -little space between pads and rim -if the support frame is not square well have trouble -the same way if the rim is not centered well Instead we can say that these are the positive aspects: - Easy and quick mount, the slaves will automatically be straight! - Self-regulation of the pads - More power thanks to the pump with reservoir (this can also be a downside, could split some frames?) - The price(i don't think it will be far from echo or magura) - The weight Of course we can always improve, thanks again;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence--Trials Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Do you know how much it actually weigh's? Surly you cant save that much weight over a magura??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Do you know how much it actually weigh's? Surly you cant save that much weight over a magura??? Surely you can...Maguras are heavy as fook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 there 250g? an echo is 200g, thats prety light man, disc brakes in trials start at 360g, even crazy light XC ones are over 200g, plus a rim brake set up is lighter cause it requires less stuff, i'm not anti-light nor am i a weight weenie, but 200g is nowt, vee's can't be much lighter, an sd7 set up (similar price to a magura) is 260g + cable... not that reducing the hs33 design and skimming moar grams off never hurts but there not exactly weighty brakes atm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 there 250g? an echo is 200g, thats prety light man, disc brakes in trials start at 360g, even crazy light XC ones are over 200g, plus a rim brake set up is lighter cause it requires less stuff, i'm not anti-light nor am i a weight weenie, but 200g is nowt, vee's can't be much lighter, an sd7 set up (similar price to a magura) is 260g + cable... not that reducing the hs33 design and skimming moar grams off never hurts but there not exactly weighty brakes atm... 05 are over 300g with clamps and 50g is quite a big difference for a brake.I´m not weight weenie,just stating the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'scoolfool Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 05 are over 300g with clamps and 50g is quite a big difference for a brake.I´m not weight weenie,just stating the facts. facts like 260 + 50 = 300? lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 facts like 260 + 50 = 300? lol You know what word over means right? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'scoolfool Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 You know what word over means right? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/over it was a joke but if you want to get arsey about it an 05 mag weighs about 315g with magura mounts which weigh 80g in themself so if you use echo brake clamps you're saving 40g or so making them 275g so pretty much the same making you even more wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 echo brake clamps you're saving 40g or so making them 275g so pretty much the same making you even more wrong they weight 45g with bolts that are much likely too short to be used without risk of striping frame threads...so the difference might be more like 30g.Still, 25g is big diff for someone who wants to have his bike as light as possible and it´s actually one of the cheapest ways to save this "much" weight if you consider other high end parts that would save you simmilar amount of weight.I Did not get you were joking BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dd Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Wouldn't this brake be better if we leave the echo/magura design and closed system and just put the integrated clamps. Surely that's all people want? Who cares about auto adjust, it's been almost two decades since people starting using magura - thre hasn't been any fancy stuff like this, why would we need it now? Keep it simple, light, strong and durable! Has this product been patented yet? Could we just ask Deng(echo) to change a design a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence--Trials Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Wouldn't this brake be better if we leave the echo/magura design and closed system and just put the integrated clamps. Surely that's all people want? Who cares about auto adjust, it's been almost two decades since people starting using magura - thre hasn't been any fancy stuff like this, why would we need it now? Keep it simple, light, strong and durable! Has this product been patented yet? Could we just ask Deng(echo) to change a design a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Wouldn't this brake be better if we leave the echo/magura design and closed system and just put the integrated clamps. Surely that's all people want? Who cares about auto adjust, it's been almost two decades since people starting using magura - thre hasn't been any fancy stuff like this, why would we need it now? Keep it simple, light, strong and durable! Has this product been patented yet? Could we just ask Deng(echo) to change a design a little? If they don´t play with the open system a little bit more to make it work flawlessly,than yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaarel Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Is there any possibility to see you riding with this brake? It would be specially good if your rim wouldn't be straight and there were no music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dart89 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Is there any possibility to see you riding with this brake? It would be specially good if your rim wouldn't be straight and there were no music. of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dart89 Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 some improvements..... i'll let you know more as soon as possible http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzM0NjQ1NTIw.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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