Matt Vandart Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) On inspired bikes. Why is this the common procedure? Edited November 17, 2011 by Matt Vandart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 because a high short front end makes the bikes amazing, but no stem made is the right geo and no bars are the right height so stackers are the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4stars Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I ran with 2cm for the best part of 18months with an inspired bar (on a hope 90x10 stem) Was going through a phase of practising bunny hops and after seeing some of ben rowlands vids, it got me curious to see how it would feel. put an additional 2cm of stackers on with a TT highrise bar and the difference was immense, completely changed the feel. manuals and bunnyhops were obviously alot easier with not being over the front as much. things on the back wheel (for me) became alot more stable, having alot more room made gaps easier to preload for...meant i could get further. i thought things on the front wheel may feel worse being further away from it, but that somehow felt nicer too...just about the angles i guess? Edited November 13, 2011 by chris4stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 i think bmx handlebars would do the same as some old fourplay bikes look lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I run 30mm of stacker, hope 90 x 10mm stem and trialtech highrise bars on my inspired (still want it higher, wish I didn't cut the steerer tube now.). I think it looks better that way as short, steep stems and/or mega rise on bars looks silly in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 because a high short front end makes the bikes amazing, but no stem made is the right geo and no bars are the right height so stackers are the only way. so what sort of stem length/angle would get it in the same place? I mean surley this is madness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4stars Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 thats my old bike there honestly, the difference in feeling in the bike was unbelieveable...completely changed it for the better in my opinion pause at 8seconds to see his setup pretty clearly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 thats it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 To be honest, some of us are starting to get into low bmx bar territory when it comes to height. I think it'd be pretty interesting to see how that'd work out! I'm currenyl running a 90x30* stem and some TT high rises on the Leeson, will probably be raising them by about 20mm when I get new forks with a longer steerer - the 190mm one i've got at the moment is a little short. But as said, short stems and lots of stackers tend to just feel better. Long high stems make it feel a bit like a big mod which is just gay. If stems came that ridiculously steep it may be viable, but like Ali said there really is just nothing around that's suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andeee Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 To replicate the steering on a bmx? due to bmx's having high bars so the need for extra stackers gives more height to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) thats my old bike there honestly, the difference in feeling in the bike was unbelieveable...completely changed it for the better in my opinion pause at 8seconds to see his setup pretty clearly... I'm not doubting it in any way dude, just wondering why it hasn't been solved in some other way. With that many stackers, surely bending the sterer tube is a very real posibility? In what way would it feel like a mod? If a stem with a the right angle and reach to match exactly the poition of the bars it would feel just the same? I am not in anyway having a go against this practice, its just I am gonna build myself an inspired soon and am investigating this phenomenon. How come the inspired just hasnt got a longer headtube? I think every one I have seen has had this set up. Would using some low BMX bars and a shorter sterer tube realistically replicate this set up? On a sidenote: I'm pretty sure my BMX has a lnger wheel base that the skye. Edited November 15, 2011 by Matt Vandart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 They COULD make a stem with that angle and it would feel the same, yeah. BUT... If you had that stem, there'd be much less option for change. With stackers, you can think: "I wonder how slightly lower bars would change the feel of [manoeuvre x]" and just do it. Or you could decide you fancy a bit more. It's cheaper too If you know exactly what height you want, then yeah - that'd be great - but from a manufacturer's point of view it's kind of limiting. A lower angled stem of length [x] can be used by itself, or with stackers to generate a whole range of geometries. Making just that one geometry limits it to that alone. On the idea of bending steerer tubes, good bloody luck I'm sure - with adequate force - it is a possibility, but I'd wager that number is far more than people can generate. I've never heard of it happening. They're very thick walled, reasonably large diametered tubes... Need a metallurgist/engineer in here really but my money's on needing to be the Hulk or a robot to do that. Again - a longer headtube would restrict you exclusively to higher bar heights. True - most streety bikes you see have high bars to make up for the short cockpit, but there's some Inspired riders I've seen run something like a 110x10* with very few stackers (if any) and ride it as a trials-trials bike with some street rather than really streety street trials. All comes back to being as all-rounder as possible. They're all-rounder bikes that do a bit of everything, so the more versatile they can be, the more the company will sell. Yes - you could run low BMX bars. I was thinking of trying this out on my mod with a long stem to get it a bit streetier. The main issues were the stem. I'd've wanted about 80-90mm reach, which just doesn't exist with a 22.2mm clamp, and I didn't fancy shims with that much leverage. I think you'd have that issue too. Most 24" stems I've seen have been 70mmish, which is at the very longest of BMX stems - though maybe their 70 being flat and trials' 70 being slanted would be enough. Not sure - look in to it, but I'd give the advance warning that I really don't think it all worth the effort. If you want to spend money on experimenting, I fully support you and urge you to do it. Experimentation is good. In this case, however, I think the reasons for doing so are not realistic issues. (That's my take on the things you asked, anyway.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 There's also the fact if you did use, say, 24" BMX bars, they'd feel shit for trials, and on top of that, because the bars themselves are big when you change the angle it'd radically change how far forwards the bars are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Cool, ta. Why have so much rise/reach on a bike that has a (relatively) low bb in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Because they're so short. If they were shortand had low rise it'd feel like a monkeybike. On a trials-trials bike, you're more laid out. Using Coust frames as an example (very long), the rider's back is almost parallel to the floor when stood on the bike. Just the way the geometry is. On a street-trials bike, you're more stood up. Using Skye frames as an example (very short), the rider's back is not far of perpendicular to the floor when stood on the bike. Y'want a similarish amount of space in the cockpit, it's just arranged differently, which is why they handle differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hm, interesting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I tried some cruiser bars on a 24", felt pretty good, got the height pretty easily, but the setup weighed a tonne (the bars were 850g and the stem around 250g) which is just too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Maybe it's something you could suggest to trialtech dave? I can see them being popular if they were made right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Maybe it's something you could suggest to trialtech dave? I can see them being popular if they were made right. Really? I don't really see the need myself. I'm one of the group who uses a whole bunch of stackers on my Inspired and I see no problem. If i had big ol' BMX bars then you'd need to cut your steerer right down so it wasn't super high, but then if I wanted to change bars i'd be left with a low steerer which would be of no use. The whole stacker thing, whilst slightly ugly is the simplest, cheapest, lightest, bestest, most flexible option which suits everyones needs. If it t'aint a problem...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'd quite like some slightly higher rise bars with less upsweep. BMX bars or bars like the NS Bikes District bars fit the bill reasonably well, but non-dick stems become the issue then. Sort of tempted by some Atomlab bars as they look like they'd offer a little more rise than the TT bars but have 3° less upsweep. Shit Photoshop ahoy: And these are the District bars for comparison. Matt - I guess you've got to bear in mind that most trials bikes are set up to 'feel nice on the back wheel', so a lower front end keeping your body weight orientated slightly more over the bars generally helps that (as it keeps everything more in line in a backhop position). With a 24 you usually need a more neutral body position, so you need to bring your front end up higher to keep your body weight back. This helps loads for bunnyhops and manuals, which are two fairly popular things as far as 24" riding goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I guess a potential high rise Inspired bar sitting somewhere above the TT's in terms of rise, with slightly relaxed geo and a beefed up build could be cool. There's no major need for it, but it'd be one to consider I suppose. Most people are pretty happy with what's available though - there's about enough range to cover most bases and stackers are a quick and easy way to try things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4stars Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 if anyone ever gets a chance to play with those atomlab pimp bars id be interested to hear...they look good and less sweep may make for a pretty comfortable feel? whos going to take the plunge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'm hopefully going to strap some balls on and make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 i´ve never ridden anything trialsy when it comes to handlebars,my opinion is that steel is reliable. got this 100x25 stem,and a 35mm rise bar made of 4130. the only thing i´d change would be the rise,3" would be good. upsweep changes to "forward sweep" (i´d call it),when the bars are rolled forward,i think the less of it,the better. going for atomlab too. i think mark´s right,bike mechanics are always...(am one,too lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 but yeah, forwards sweep on a streety bike is a no go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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