Miss-Higgy Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I defiantly believe in it, and i didn't just watch my name is earl and thought yeah i like that... Basically there's a lot of stuff I've done that seems to have been an act of karma. Like a year ago ish, when it was mega icy a little old woman asked for my help crossing the road, i thought you could ask someone better but ok, helped her across went to bingo that night and won £500. I always hand in purses or lost items i find that can be traced, and the times I've lost my handbag/purse its been returned 9 times out of 10 still with contents. I also like this idea that is sorta on topic, has anyone seen "Pay It Forward" starring Bruce Willis. For every good turn done for you, you have to return 3 favors to different people. Now wouldn't that just make the world a better place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I believe in Karma to a degree, this is because shit happens to good people all the time for no reason other than because its simply how the world works. I personally try to repay good deeds and be nice to people that haven't given me reason not to be and so far seems to be going okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Anscombe Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 karma is real ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muel Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I believe in it. Not in a "I gave 50p to charity today then on the way home all the lights were green", because quite frankly that's utter bollocks. I just believe that if you're a decent person, and behave like it, people will be decent to you. When I split up with my ex, we were living together and her best mate was looking after me and putting me up when I needed to get away from the flat for a night, making sure I was eating a decent meal once in a while and not drinking too much. Around the same time, my ex crashed her car, broke her arm on a night out, and nearly lost her job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCaptain Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Well yeah I believe in it, and it's a great thing. Makes you want to constantly improve yourself as a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yeah definitely. This belief endorses better morals than religion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I don't believe in Karma as something that really exists, but I do think that things will tend to work out for the best if you're a good person. There are obviously bad things that happen to good people and good things that happen to bad people but overall it comes down to how you treat others and how you are perceived. Apart from the odd minor hiccup, everything in my life has gone pretty frickin' well so far and I put it down to being a generally nice guy who was brought up well, worked hard at school and wouldn't hurt a fly (though spiders I will happily murder). There have been some things where I've been lucky, other things that by coincidence have just worked out well but I don't put it down to the God of Karma rewarding me for being nice to people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 The concept of some 'force' of Karma that a lot of people seem to believe it strikes me as somewhat retarded, but at the end of the day if you're decent to people, people will be good to you in return. To quote Abe Lincoln; "Be excellent to each other" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm afraid it doesn't exist. To me it's always seemed more ridiculous than religion, at least with religion there is someone who supposedly keeps check on the balance. You think our Universe created by chaos, just chose to have a system of balance for us as an animal created by some more chaos, on a ball of rock that just so happens to be in the right place. We all have coincidences in our lives, whether it's good or bad luck. People who are saying "If you do good, you generally get good back as you're known for doing good." The only problem with that is, you're known within your social network, which may be, if you're incredibly extrovert, a few hundred people. Just a shame there's another 7 billion who don't give a f**k. In most cases, yeah, if you're nice, people are nice back. But I'm generally a nice guy and I seem to get spade fulls of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I honestly gave it ago a few months back, an old friend who I've never been close with posted on facebook saying he had nowhere to live for 2 weeks. None of his close friends even commented, I thought I'd give him a chance as I would hope somebody would do the same for me. He moved in the next day, lived like a lazy slob for 2 weeks taking us for granted, and then moved out with out paying a penny towards anything. 2 weeks later, our landlord called and said that we had to vacate the property. We had to re-home our cats sell off loads of our possessions and move into Kays parents house. I've never felt lower than I do right now. If karma does exist, I'd like to kick him in the nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss-Higgy Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Who said anything about there being a karma god, it can effect both physical and mental aspects of your life, what your explaining there monkey IS karma. I don't believe there's a entity watching over us rewarding us for the good things... That sounds like some a cultist spannerige. Its not about being nice to people either, you could be one of the most vile rude people on the planet and still be effected positively by karma. Basically what i'm saying is its not a real thing like a religion, its an idea that can be taken seriously unlike, christian, catholic, hindu and the rest of the beliefs And Luke, yes that by rights should have put you in good stead, but you need to keep it up and continue the same way, it didn't work out that time but who's to say it wasn't meant to happen, it might lead to something bigger or better like a much nicer place you wouldn't have found if you were still in the other place. All i'm saying to those who are skeptical, is try it for more than just once or twice, and if your expecting good to come of it then it generally wont, its those time you wont be thinking about it that it will happen Edited November 3, 2011 by ch@v3tt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Who said anything about there being a karma god, it can effect both physical and mental aspects of your life, what your explaining there monkey IS karma. I don't believe there's a entity watching over us rewarding us for the good things... That sounds like some a cultist spannerige. Its not about being nice to people either, you could be one of the most vile rude people on the planet and still be effected positively by karma. Basically what i'm saying is its not a real thing like a religion, its an idea that can be taken seriously unlike, christian, catholic, hindu and the rest of the beliefs And Luke, yes that by rights should have put you in good stead, but you need to keep it up and continue the same way, it didn't work out that time but who's to say it wasn't meant to happen, it might lead to something bigger or better like a much nicer place you wouldn't have found if you were still in the other place. All i'm saying to those who are skeptical, is try it for more than just once or twice, and if your expecting good to come of it then it generally wont, its those time you wont be thinking about it that it will happen Don't take this the wrong way, as I know you think I dig at you. But you've not read what I typed, re-read it. I said that, for the very reason you're saying, karma is more ridiculous. At least religion assumes a higher being who can control things. You're trying to say that something created by Chaos has a system in place, a score chart of whatever. And to say that some people can be scum and Karma favours them, that's basically just calling Chaos something else and saying that it can help us out, you're applying a name and ideas to something that we understand already. It's called random chance. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's shit. I'm always nice, I never intend to hurt anyone, I would never want anyone to be hurt even if I wish it upon them. I hold doors and have manners with strangers etc etc. Yet it doesn't influence what happens to me, it merely allows me to stand on a pedestal when someone doesn't do something and complain about it. Me holding a door doesn't tip the cosmic balance. Like Rainbird said in my thread, our Sun blows up, the Universe wouldn't even notice. As if my actions on this planet mean anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss-Higgy Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Don't take this the wrong way, as I know you think I dig at you. But you've not read what I typed, re-read it. I said that, for the very reason you're saying, karma is more ridiculous. At least religion assumes a higher being who can control things. You're trying to say that something created by Chaos has a system in place, a score chart of whatever. And to say that some people can be scum and Karma favours them, that's basically just calling Chaos something else and saying that it can help us out, you're applying a name and ideas to something that we understand already. It's called random chance. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's shit. I'm always nice, I never intend to hurt anyone, I would never want anyone to be hurt even if I wish it upon them. I hold doors and have manners with strangers etc etc. Yet it doesn't influence what happens to me, it merely allows me to stand on a pedestal when someone doesn't do something and complain about it. Me holding a door doesn't tip the cosmic balance. Like Rainbird said in my thread, our Sun blows up, the Universe wouldn't even notice. As if my actions on this planet mean anything at all. Sorry should have quoted it, i was replying to monkeyseemonkeydo, he put the bit about the karma god. And i wouldn't say karma is systematic it is a chaos theory at the end of the day. And you obv have a very strong belief in what you do, can i ask do you have a job at the moment and would you say you have a good quality of life? Through your own doing of course and your actions (holding doors, being polite and a generally nice guy) hasn't influenced this? Its also fair enough that you don't believe in karma no one is forcing you to.. And i don't think you have it in for me, i'm just miss-understood. I think i'm to nosey for my own good, but generally a very polite happy go lucky person who just likes to be evolved in what ever people are doing/talking about.. LOL Edited November 3, 2011 by ch@v3tt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Oh right okay, sorry, I re-read what I said and thought it could be taken that way so wanted to clarify. If you say it's chaos, then it can't be "If you do good, you get rewarded." The only thing it can be is "If you do good, then you might get rewarded, and if you do get rewarded you're not really being rewarded it's just coincidental good luck." Right now, I have an easy life, but there's no real standard of living. I'm a student without a proper job. So I have no money, I eat the same shit everyday, I do the same things everyday, I share a bathroom with 2 guys that seem to have raw sewage pipes for bowels. Even if I did have a good quality of life, surely that's more through my own hard work than my manners/actions towards others. The sooner everyone realises, it's all random, there is no God, we need to trust science's ever changing and learning idea, the sooner we'll live in a better world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 At least religion assumes a higher being who can control things. That higher being really can be a bit of a cunt though, can't He? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 That higher being really can be a bit of a cunt though, can't He? First letter M, last letter D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Karma, in the Buddhistic sense, is simply a description of our psycho-dynamics. The way we behave, that follows from certain feelings and intentions, comes back to us as a conditioning effect on our personality. In other words there's a feedback relationship between who we are, what we do and how that either reshapes or maintains who we are and then, again, what we do next. As an example, if I have a hateful intent which I act on, this comes back to me in the sense of guilt and I feel bad; I then act a certain way out of that resultant feeling perhaps with a drive to better myself. Alternatively I may find some (albeit limited) pleasure from the action which followed from my hateful intention (such as pointing out the 'idiocy' of others) and this begins the formation or maintenance of habit which contributes, in varying degrees, to how I will behave in the next moment or some time in the future. If an action results in pleasure often we will try to repeat it and this can become very ingrained (habitual). Although, obviously the situation is more complex because there are a many psychic factors which converge in a given moment. In other words our psychic world usually operates in a very causal way and the Buddhists call this Karma. This concept does not consider a separate, cosmic entity that operates on the material world to bring you good or bad things because you are a good or bad person but it does describe the way in which your past actions will lead you, in the future, to certain types of bad or good situations in the material world because of your conditioning. Karma is also part of the reason why the Buddha said we are half asleep. Our actions are usually reflexive based on prior experience and intention/action. We're not really choosing to act such and such a way in this moment but rather we are just acting out of the past which has 'programmed' us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) I can't see any logical reason that Karma could exist, so I ignore it's potential existence and just be a dick to everyone. It's not doing me too bad right now EDIT: Actually that's clearly not true. But there's also no clear link between my actions and what 'Karma' comes back to me. Edited November 3, 2011 by JD™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss-Higgy Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Oh right okay, sorry, I re-read what I said and thought it could be taken that way so wanted to clarify. If you say it's chaos, then it can't be "If you do good, you get rewarded." The only thing it can be is "If you do good, then you might get rewarded, and if you do get rewarded you're not really being rewarded it's just coincidental good luck." Right now, I have an easy life, but there's no real standard of living. I'm a student without a proper job. So I have no money, I eat the same shit everyday, I do the same things everyday, I share a bathroom with 2 guys that seem to have raw sewage pipes for bowels. Even if I did have a good quality of life, surely that's more through my own hard work than my manners/actions towards others. The sooner everyone realises, it's all random, there is no God, we need to trust science's ever changing and learning idea, the sooner we'll live in a better world. Well religion is very closely based on chance, and the chance that you may be rewarded for praising someone up there. I would rather believe in myself than some higher being... Like i say it fair enough you believe in what you believe. Your a man of science so an unproven theory about a reward system is going to seem preposterous just like a god... And its not like i live my life by karma it just happens, it depends if you associate the good in your life with you doing good, or just luck. You believe in luck? And karma is luck manifested in a different way. EDIT: What Ben said he puts it soooo much better than me ^^ and I've started to babble making a very weak case.. Edited November 3, 2011 by ch@v3tt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 when it was mega icy a little old woman asked for my help crossing the road, i thought you could ask someone better but ok, helped her across went to bingo that night and won £500. I don't believe there's a entity watching over us rewarding us for the good things... That sounds like some a cultist spannerige. Winning at bingo and helping an old lady across the street have absolutely no link, unless that same woman actually happened to be at bingo, got bingo, but didn't call it because she knew you had it too as a reward for being nice, or maybe she was calling the numbers and somehow cheated for you etc. Whenever anyone brings up the topic of karma, you get two different types of people, people who believe in the spiritual / balancing of the universe karma, meaning if you do something good, something good will happen to you in an impossibly unrelated aspect of you life (ie helping an old lady across the street and winning at bingo is a perfect example of this) and... The other side if 'karma' (it really isn't actually karma) is what Mr Monkey is talking about, doing something good, and then something good happening to you which is directly linked. Like for example letting someone stay at your house because they missed their train, and then the next night the person you let stay at your house buys you all your drinks on the next night out. This isn't karma, this is just being a nice person to people and people being nice back.... because you're nice to them. If you believe in both these examples, you are a believer in karma, if you only believe in the second, you don't believe in karma. And if you believe in neither, you're a sad lonely person. Karma is bullshit, completely unproven and was come up with in the same way rain dances were. Indians when dancing for rain would dance in different ways until the day it actually rained, and then they would assume that dance they did was the correct one to make it rain. Same goes for karma. We remember when we do good things and good things happen to us back because it's noteworthy and fits the idea behind karma, we also remember the times when we do something bad or immoral and something bad happens to us because again it fits the idea of karma. However on a day when you rescue a dog out of a pond, but then get home to find you're locked out, this doesn't fit the idea of karma and is then forgotten about. As time goes on you remember the things that fit the ideals of karma but forget those that don't, which is like not taking into consideration all the raindances that didn't produce rain. Therefor, once you take this scientific viewpoint on karma, you can see it's clearly a bunch of tripe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Karma, in the Buddhistic sense, is simply a description of our psycho-dynamics. The way we behave, that follows from certain feelings and intentions, comes back to us as a conditioning effect on our personality. In other words there's a feedback relationship between who we are, what we do and how that either reshapes or maintains who we are and then, again, what we do next. As an example, if I have a hateful intent which I act on, this comes back to me in the sense of guilt and I feel bad; I then act a certain way out of that resultant feeling perhaps with a drive to better myself. Alternatively I may find some (albeit limited) pleasure from the action which followed from my hateful intention (such as pointing out the 'idiocy' of others) and this begins the formation or maintenance of habit which contributes, in varying degrees, to how I will behave in the next moment or some time in the future. If an action results in pleasure often we will try to repeat it and this can become very ingrained (habitual). Although, obviously the situation is more complex because there are a many psychic factors which converge in a given moment. In other words our psychic world usually operates in a very causal way and the Buddhists call this Karma. This concept does not consider a separate, cosmic entity that operates on the material world to bring you good or bad things because you are a good or bad person but it does describe the way in which your past actions will lead you, in the future, to certain types of bad or good situations in the material world because of your conditioning. Karma is also part of the reason why the Buddha said we are half asleep. Our actions are usually reflexive based on prior experience and intention/action. We're not really choosing to act such and such a way in this moment but rather we are just acting out of the past which has 'programmed' us. This is pretty much what I was saying, apart from you've actually tied Karma down to things that do happen within our brain, (Again though, chemical releases based on our actions, not divine retribution) and if that's how you or anyone else want to see Karma, that's completely fine by me. But it's when people say it's the universal equation being balanced. But at the end of the day, what you're calling Karma is merely psychology, neuroscience and brain bio-chemistry in action. I think it's a great way to look at it, I love how the more we know the more we can link things together, finding out that what people described was merely the most basic understand of who and what we are. A lot of the things you said in your post are well founded psychological theory, Buddha spotted it a while a go it would seem For some reason it didn't quote you Chavette, (I felt bile rise up my neck as I had to type that as your name) religion is a lot more about faith than chance. Your idea of Karma works on the balancing of an equation, whereas most people's idea of religion is that faith and trust will see them through. My idea of the world is that everything is down to chance. Every last thing. You have some control, but that's about it. And just to make this clear, I don't mean there's any fate involved in the sense that we have no control. I mean that, if your body feels ill one day, you miss work, your place of work burns down, that isn't karma, just by chance you felt ill on the day that you could have died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss-Higgy Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 This is pretty much what I was saying, apart from you've actually tied Karma down to things that do happen within our brain, (Again though, chemical releases based on our actions, not divine retribution) and if that's how you or anyone else want to see Karma, that's completely fine by me. But it's when people say it's the universal equation being balanced. But at the end of the day, what you're calling Karma is merely psychology, neuroscience and brain bio-chemistry in action. I think it's a great way to look at it, I love how the more we know the more we can link things together, finding out that what people described was merely the most basic understand of who and what we are. A lot of the things you said in your post are well founded psychological theory, Buddha spotted it a while a go it would seem For some reason it didn't quote you Chavette, (I felt bile rise up my neck as I had to type that as your name) religion is a lot more about faith than chance. Your idea of Karma works on the balancing of an equation, whereas most people's idea of religion is that faith and trust will see them through. My idea of the world is that everything is down to chance. Every last thing. You have some control, but that's about it. And just to make this clear, I don't mean there's any fate involved in the sense that we have no control. I mean that, if your body feels ill one day, you miss work, your place of work burns down, that isn't karma, just by chance you felt ill on the day that you could have died. Like JT said there are different people with different beliefs I'm spiritual, your scientific quite a clash. So can we just agree to disagree please. I also hate my user name my boyfriend created this account and he thought i still used the username. I have messaged admin asking for a name change and they don't like me either it seems. There's no need to put what you did about my username though, and if it is a massive issue use my real name, Lucy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm spiritual, your scientific quite a clash. So can we just agree to disagree please. No, we can't. If you're spiritual, you're believing in something which has no evidence, if you're scientific, you're working with facts and evidence. Anything tagged with 'spiritual' has zero evidence. If it did have evidence it wouldn't be labeled spiritual. Ghosts, psychics, Ouija boards, prayer, religion, theism, miracles etc all considered spiritual and have no evidence at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Like JT said there are different people with different beliefs I'm spiritual, your scientific quite a clash. So can we just agree to disagree please. I also hate my user name my boyfriend created this account and he thought i still used the username. I have messaged admin asking for a name change and they don't like me either it seems. There's no need to put what you did about my username though, and if it is a massive issue use my real name, Lucy.. Well we can agree to disagree if you want. But I think you're still taking my posts in the wrong way, within my social groups, both weed and otherwise, debate is a big deal, we talk all the time. I'm not shouting at you or lecturing you, I'm just giving my opinion, of your opinion, waiting for your opinion of my opinion on your opinion. And again on the username thing, yeah it's a horrible username, but I was again thinking of a more, if this was an academic debate, I wouldn't be shouting "Chavette I must disagree", that's all. Like JT said, you have spiritual beliefs, I don't have any beliefs, I just trust Science. It's not belief as such, or I don't see it as the same kind of belief as it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I wasn't really referring to the brain in my description of Buddhistic Karma but that would, unfortunately, be the standard method to validate psychological descriptions. A sort of bringing them into the scientific fold. It's interesting to see the blind irony contained in the position of those who clearly hold science in a religious fashion. There's some definite faith, overestimating (implicit myth, omniscience, etc.), reductionism and partisan behavior. As always the complexity and diversity contained in the situation is missed. I wish I had the energy to join in a debate on this, or perhaps I don't because nobody ever really listens to anybody else, but I don't these days. I'll probably read a response though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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