Phatmike Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Hey guys, It's been 2 years now since the idea was conceived, and with much head scratching, sweat and blood over my final year at Loughborough Uni I built the first prototype. 6 months of concept and rigid design, 3 weeks lathing, plus another month of fabrication and one late night rush of assembly, the ridable proto was made following the dimensions of the CAD model: There was a topic with a few people talking here; And I wanted to answer a few questions about it. The idea is, if you break a tube, you swap it, and if you want to change the geometry, you have means to. Exactly, the whole system is modular. The tubes are easy to replace with an allen key (though changing the downtube does mean disassembling most of Phrame), meaning not only can you replace parts and change geometry, you can also upgrade components. Want disk mounts? No problem: Just buy a single replacement dropout. surely if the tubes are clamped the frame will flex more ? I spent a couple of months researching tube joining methods, and settled on the pinch bolt clamp. There's one other clamping method I want to try, but Phrame is incredibly stiff - it was designed to maximise lateral stiffness (or twisting when you pedal), with a delicious amount of spring and pop vertically. Thanks to all the pro riders that helped in discussion with that! The rear brake mounts look familiar. Isn't that how alex dark designed his frame?? Yeah. Hoffmann bikes released a frame with that system a few years back - always liked it and was glad for the chance to include it in a design. The result: It's awesome. No other brake feels quite like it. This is amazing it could kill all other frames! If this worked theoretically you would never have to buy another frame again! That's kinda the point. I'm not sure weight could be a selling point, especially with all the light Koxx's and the recent 1.2kg Echo stock frame. Frames in trials are getting more and more disposable - ride it a bit, break it, get something else. And this is why.. Phrame is also a way of breaking that throwaway cycle. I really like the idea, but i can see breaking and replacing downtubes (and probably chainstays) getting pretty expensive? Cheaper than getting a new frame every time a crack appears! All the tubes on Phrame are readily available diameters, meaning you could replace them with Steel, Alu, CF, Bamboo.. alsorts. Straight gauge tubes are pretty cheap too. I can't see how it's possible to change the geometry by just installing shorter/longer tubes. You'd need to replace the connecting bits too which essentially means replacing most of the frame. As Krisboats said in the previous topic, varying geometries would require bent tubes. Each geometry and tube bend is calculated via a CAD model and then the tubes can be precisely bent before being verified in a jig. There's a lot of interest around the concept (especially to those who said it wouldn't work ), and as part of a commitment to open-source info, I'd be glad to share my research and info with interested individuals and organisations. I'll keep the thread updated with more images.. I am looking to partner up with help to see the project to light. Be it by way of pre-sales, or assistance in the development and commercialisation phase. It'll be a fun project nonetheless. M. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh barker Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 that looks mega! wonder how long it will last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 So where's the pic of the prototype? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza1 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Looks a good idea how long before there in production?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Sounds interesting, although this caught me eye: Want disk mounts? No problem: Just buy a single replacement dropout. Pretty much every frame I've seen without some sort of 'proper' reinforcement for the disc mount has ended up breaking relatively easily. Are you envisioning some sort of brace sort of setup with it too, or are you just hoping the dropout/mount will hold itself together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 That's just the concept on that part at the mo Mark! The main idea and concept has been built and proven at the moment, which is the big thing. The rest is just a case of filling in the gaps (like performing testing and development on the disk mount for example) and it can get there. As for how long it'll be until it's in production? As quick as possible with the right help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza1 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Deffo like this idea but will you be making the parts aswell? And how much for a frame?????? Also think you need to make the parts same colour as the frame?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 It would be cool to see pics of the real life thing built up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 As I said, it's still at the functional prototype stage - the rest is intention! It's also a rare opportunity in the sport to have such an innovation developed openly rather than behind closed doors. Each of the components would easily, readily available, for a fair cost. This isn't a money making venture (it's trials...) more an exercise of communal technical development. As for colours, any colour under the sun at this stage! Here's a pic: Only proper one I got before it was submitted and subsequently de-built. Once I can afford spokes for my own bike, I'll get this one built up for further refinement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza1 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Are the pieces made out of carbon!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Didn't realise this got made, fair play - good stuff! What's the weight of the lugs separately? And tubing? And bolts? How tricky was it to assemble? Lots of jiggling and waggling I bet! Definitely an interesting project, look forward to seeing where it goes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroMatt Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 With the whole modular approach it would be a good opportunity to introduce some of the applicable open source standards from MTB to trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Are the pieces made out of carbon!?!?!? The carbon looking tubes are carbon tubes, the machined looking (orange) bits are metal (aluminium or welded steel I'm not sure). How tricky was it to assemble? Lots of jiggling and waggling I bet! Following on from that, how tricky is it get it all straight and aligned? Without a jig it must be an interesting problem! Can I ask what sort of weight the final proto has ended up at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza1 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Gonna be expensive if decent carbon!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Gonna be expensive if decent carbon!!! It'll only need be stock carbon tube (I assume). The expensive bit will be the metal parts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurMonkey Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 I was sat here thinking you could have one "frame" with just bits of tube to change it from 20/24/26. Then I realised it wouldn't work. Looks awesome, and it's a great idea. Guess it'll be down to build quality and how easy/cost effective all the tube changing will be. What sort of frames are you gonna be aiming to compete with out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Aye, things like bb30, bolt through rear end, 1.5 taper headtube (which this has) can all be worked either into the original purchase, or available as after-market accessories. The intention is to make it open-sourced, so DIY enthusiasts, or companies can all provide accessories to go with it. (How about a downtube/bb junction with a battery and motor in it? Ad, yeah this was the one I called up for parts for! Managed to borrow everything else I needed to make it look alriight. The carbon looking tubes are carbon tubes, the machined looking (orange) bits are metal (aluminium or welded steel I'm not sure). Following on from that, how tricky is it get it all straight and aligned? Without a jig it must be an interesting problem! Can I ask what sort of weight the final proto has ended up at? The Carbon looking tubes are Alu, as is the rest of it. S'all 6082/6061 T6. Yeah, jigging it up took quite a while. We had the dropouts/bb shell/headtube aligned in a jig that Josh made, then held the various pieces and built it all up with the tubes in place. Will get a weight up when I find some scales, although I believe it's in the 4.5lb area. That's something that can easily brought down (to any level..), but I was happy with that with the first proto! The BB yolk: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TryAllTrials Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Nice Work! Looks fresh.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 The Carbon looking tubes are Alu, as is the rest of it. S'all 6082/6061 T6. Ah, fair enough- the rendering fooled me! Are you planning to try a carbon downtube/toptube to see how it goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatmike Posted October 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Aye, as soon as the backing is there to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza1 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 If there not carbon you nee to make everything the same Colour otherwise it looks shite orange and black!!!! The motor ideas good but I'll put money on it now it never happens not enough people would buy it and it would be heavy!! Like the whole idea but not sure it'll hit off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Leech Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Larrrvly mike, get it going, will be a market place winner! Cheers, Josh. Edited October 23, 2011 by Rob Leech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 What would we want a battery and motor for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 Get some more pics up of it (frame only) you gimp Like I said before, big fan of the concept. Interested to see how this pans out for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 this is awesome, how much are you looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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