omgnoseat Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) I've bought a echo lite 2011 frame about 2-3 months ago at trialshop.pl . The service was pretty much spot on and I was very satisfied with the new frame! The frame came with a bottom bracket and spacers between the bottom bracket and cranks. So I've installed everything and it all seemed fine. Went on a ride this weekend, got a puncture in my rear tire so decided to fix it. Then I noticed that the inside of my chainstain had been eaten away by the frame pretty badly. Immediatly stopped biking and moved on with my bike in my hand so the chain couldn't do any more damage. I'm very careful with my bike, use a chainstain protector, don't throw it etc. The bike is in pretty much new state apart from some very minor scratches, and ofcourse the chainstay. I'm pretty much devastated by the damage to the chainstay, It wouldn't be so bad if it was from a crash or an accident. But I really couldn't do anything about this. I installed the frame the way it was supposed to and I used the parts that were ment to be used on the frame. The chainline is completely straight, it's strange that the chain is rubbing the frame, the provided bottom bracket/crank spacers are clearly too wide. It's almost impossible to spot because the chain is blocking the view to the damage area, so I only noticed it when fixing the puncture. The shop provides 6 months of warranty, do I have a leg to stand on? Damage hidden from chain Chain pulled down This probably shows best how deep the damage is (my fingers look weird because I'm pulling the chain down ) chainline top chainline bottom Edited September 29, 2011 by omgnoseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Unfortunately it's wear and tear rather than a fault as such, other than obviously being a bit of a design issue. If it's been poorly made (a bad example in a run or whatever) then you might be able to get some help, or if it's not possible (with any setup) to run, but chances are you're going to be fairly out of luck on this one. Best bet will to be to get in touch and find out for sure though Wing a pic up when you can so we can see what sort of tolerances are at play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuie Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 depending on gearing you are running could mean there is not enuff clearance from chain and frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Unfortunately it's wear and tear rather than a fault as such, other than obviously being a bit of a design issue. If it's been poorly made (a bad example in a run or whatever) then you might be able to get some help, or if it's not possible (with any setup) to run, but chances are you're going to be fairly out of luck on this one. Best bet will to be to get in touch and find out for sure though Wing a pic up when you can so we can see what sort of tolerances are at play Yeah thats what I was afraid of. But I still think it's strange that the chain is rubbing when I'm using the parts that are supplied with it. The frame + parts is not a deal from the shop, but echo themselve actually came up with the package. depending on gearing you are running could mean there is not enuff clearance from chain and frame. It's a mod so 18-12 is pretty much the only gearing you should use. I even use an echo freewheel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wouldn't be surprised if it's user error. Bent frame? If it was touching at first and everything was straight to begin with you should of questioned it then, not now. Apologies if i'm reading this wrong. But i'd say if the frame is in the condition you say it is, 'pretty much new state', then this is for sure a warranty claim. Though not surprising, there was a Lite with crooked mounts a while back. Though that was blatantly obvious and shouldn't of left the shop, yet others seemed to think that was acceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onza pro series guy Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 my mate rides an Urban, a lot older I know but from hooks the chain is pushed into the underside of his chainstay, could be this? In which case it probably comes down to wear and tear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wear on the sprockets can cause the chain to be "sucked" up to the chainstay. Happened with my Neon Bow but that was a design error and surprisingly wasn't valid for warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted September 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wouldn't be surprised if it's user error. Bent frame? If it was touching at first and everything was straight to begin with you should of questioned it then, not now. Apologies if i'm reading this wrong. But i'd say if the frame is in the condition you say it is, 'pretty much new state', then this is for sure a warranty claim. Though not surprising, there was a Lite with crooked mounts a while back. Though that was blatantly obvious and shouldn't of left the shop, yet others seemed to think that was acceptable I didn't notice it because it's in such a difficult location to spot, judging from how deep it has been eating in the frame I think it has been like this since the beginning. my mate rides an Urban, a lot older I know but from hooks the chain is pushed into the underside of his chainstay, could be this? In which case it probably comes down to wear and tear Wear on the sprockets can cause the chain to be "sucked" up to the chainstay. Happened with my Neon Bow but that was a design error and surprisingly wasn't valid for warranty. The damage is on the inner side of the upper chainstay tube (side facing the hub). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilley Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 You need to post up some pictures. Also did you buy a complete Echo or just the frame? Rear hubs, sprockets, cranks, freewheel spacers etc can all effect chainline. You talked about using the parts supplied by echo but I got the impression from your post you had only purchased a frame kit not the complete bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 don't forget a product must be fit for purpose, if you are using an echo hub and screw on cog I would say that it is not fit for purpose, however echo/trial shop would probably pull the 'professional bike mechanic card' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Added pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Worst case scenario, it probably would still be okay if it doesn't cut in anymore. My Inspired is like that from running the chain right up, and it's okay still Also some plastic pipe or whatever floats your boat to prevent any further damage. As a guide, because maybe your frame is welded off centre; From Gsportbmx: Bends are generally worse than a slight twist, not only do they throw your balance off but the chainline can be effected and in extreme cases the crank arm will start to hit the chainstay. You can check for a bend easily enough with a piece of string and a ruler. Simply tie a piece of string to one dropout, loop it forward round the headtube and back to the other dropout. At the point where the string passes the seat-tube take a measurement (with the ruler) from the seat-tube to the string. It should be the same on both sides of the frame. Any inconsistency should be about the same as the amount the back end is bent. So if the string is 2mm nearer the seat tube on one side than the other then the dropouts are about 2mm off line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Spacer behind the freewheel (they usually come with one to use if you're not using a bashring so you can get your chainline half decent), and a 3/32" chain = problem solved. I've seen frames a lot worse than that before that have been fine in the long run (as long as you don't keep the setup as it is, obviously...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Spacer behind the freewheel (they usually come with one to use if you're not using a bashring so you can get your chainline half decent), and a 3/32" chain = problem solved. I've seen frames a lot worse than that before that have been fine in the long run (as long as you don't keep the setup as it is, obviously...). I don't think the pictures really show the damage, the chainstay wall can't tbe thicker than 1mm anymore How would another spacer make things better? I actually thought I needed a smaller spacer since the chainline is too much outward now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Mark's suggesting that a spacer behind the freewheel will move it slightly further inboard, with the thinner chain (assuming you're not running a 3/32" now of course) will give an extra mm or so too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 If you put a spacer behind the freewheel on your cranks then it'll bring the front end of your chainline more inbound, so it should make it angle outwards less, thus avoiding your chainstay/seatstay setup. Shit example ahoy: EDIT: Snaked by Rainbird. The tables have turned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 I would turn your cog around also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Reynolds Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Shame to say, i doubt you'll get it warranted because the damage is caused by a bad set-up. However some companies are pretty good with 'good will gestures'. But like other people have said, changing to a smaller chain and improving the chain line should prevent this from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgnoseat Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Yea I'm going to send them an e-mail tomorrow, see what they can do for me. Where could I aquire such a freewheel spacer? I also have no idea where I could get bottom bracket spacers. They are not listed on tartybikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalopS Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 Yea I'm going to send them an e-mail tomorrow, see what they can do for me. Where could I aquire such a freewheel spacer? I also have no idea where I could get bottom bracket spacers. They are not listed on tartybikes Freewheel Spacer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The only BB spacers made for the Echo BB are just the axle spacers like these: They're the same size as your existing ones though, just in different colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayshell Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) This is why I design frames you would have to put a 30 tooth cog before the chain hits mine. It is their fault for sure, quite simply put they didn't put enough clearance with the seatstay design, the seatstay will flex a bit when you ride and the chainline needs to come nowhere near the frame when you pedal. It is just too close. I would say ride the frame if you want to save money, it could break but isn't too dangerous I have had a seatstay snap when I was riding, the chainstay and other seatstay usually hold the frame together so you can just replace it when that breaks it also might not break altogether. But yeah it should be warranty in my opinion. You are running totally normal gearing... or consider switching to the new fans evo frame. They are designed and built with quality but are a bit pricey compared to the echo. side note: I once gridned the frame so deep on the seatstay on my GU that their was a hole in it and it didn't break. You are probably safe to ride it but it will be hard to stop that, cause the seatstay will always flex somewhat so its likely to get worn down more. Edited September 28, 2011 by sayshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 But yeah it should be warranty in my opinion. You are running totally normal gearing... It's not a question of the gearing, it's a question of the spacing. Echo supply a spacer with their cranks for you to use if you aren't using a bashring, and this spaces your freewheel over. If you use that spacer, there's no problem. That's a pre-built Echo Lite SL. You can just about make out the spacer behind the freewheel. Same on the 'standard' one too. We've sold over 25 20" Echo Lite full builds and haven't had any issues like that at all. ...the new fans evo frame. They are designed and built with quality... Quality wasn't really one of the factors that stood out on the Evo frames we received. Well, it was in a way in so much as the lack of quality control was pretty apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think the issue with warranty is that the chain must've been hitting since the bike was built. Nothing has changed or failed, except you failing to notice the issue ! I'd have thought hub flange spacing is as much of an issue as freewheel spacers too- I know flange spacing and so chainline is certainly not constant between different hubs so would also affect things. As has been suggested, flip your 12T cog round (might need a couple of shims to space it out a little depending on the hub, chain and sprocket) and use a freewheel spacer and the frame will probably last without any problem. Well, it'll eventually break somewhere but I doubt it will be where the chain's been rubbing. Edit: *cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I think the issue with warranty is that the chain must've been hitting since the bike was built. Nothing has changed or failed, except you failing to notice the issue ! I'd have though hub flange spacing is as much of an issue as BB spacers too- I know flange spacing and so chainline is certainly not constant between different hubs so would also affect things. As has been suggested, flip your 12T cog round (might need a couple of shims to space it out a little depending on the hub, chain and sprocket) and use a smaller spacer on the BB and the frame will probably last without any problem. Well, it'll eventually break somewhere but I doubt it will be where the chain's been rubbing. I think the 12t sprocket might be a TR from looking at it (don't know if it was mentioned?), so flipping it won't do too much. There's also not much that can be done to the BB spacing as if you file the spacers down the cranks are basically just going to mash into the end of the splined section. The only thing that needs doing is just putting that freewheel spacer on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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