9/11

[dann2707]

If it somehow turned out to be done by the Government. What do people genuinely think would happen? Like, how would effect the world?

[Ali C]

I would move to Australia and live in the bush next to a creek and hunt things with a spear.

[dann2707]

Would you really get on a plane there though?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I'd set up a global corporation selling spears to people like Ali.

[Ali C]

Would you really get on a plane there though?

good point! There are some pretty good caves in this country, I would buy a spear off Dave then find a decent cave.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I can see a new line in CNC'd titanium spears (drilled for lightness of course) with carbon shafts coming soon. I wonder if Tartyspears.co.uk has already been registered...

[Ali C]

in all seriousness, not sure if I would do anything differently.

[Pashley26]

You only have to look at the sinking of the Kursk and the way the American government dealt with it to see that coverups and payoffs are engrained in modern American history.

I wouldn't like to think it, but with all the evidence out there I find it really difficult to see just how it could have happened the way we are led to believe.

[Mikee]

I don't want to go into as much detail or look up some more stuff like I did before. I can't be bothered we could probably back and fourth all day. So I will come back from a few of the easier points.

If it was me and I wanted to demolish the towers, I sure wouldn't rely on a small amount of explosives to do it. If I planted explosives and the building didn't collapse then you will get found out. If someone had asked me beforehand if a plane would destroy the buildings, I wouldn't have an answer. Now that I have seen the planes hit, I think its very possible. As I said before, the buildings were 95 percent air, the buildings weighed around 500,000 which is pretty light for it's day being one of the first buildings to be made out of fairly lightweight materials. I just don't see why it would be so hard for it to fall straight down? It was still heavy enough and had momentum (falling at around 200kph) to crush concrete below it. If it really had explosions helping it down, it would have fallen faster.

They fell about 2-3 seconds slower then free-fall according to the 9/11 commision. Free-fall in a vacuum is roughly 9.5 seconds at that height and one fell at about 11.5 secs and the other 12.5 secs. That is pretty close to be a result of gravity alone, don't forget a demoltition would still have resistance.

Kinda the same points I made above, 95% air, blah, momentum, blah. The rubble left was still a quite a few stories high, not sure how you would expect to see floors in-tact but flatter after they just fell hundreds of meters with hundreds of tonnes of material falling on top of them.

The top floors wouldn't have had a huge weight on top of them. Crash/drop something at 120mph or so and it would still be recognisable, not pulverised and brokeen into tiny bits.

Without anything like this ever happening before, you can only go with either what computer programmes tell you or what you have learned about materials. Lets face it, the best they could do was make an educated guess as to what would happen if a plane hit the buildings. Seems they were pretty close but it was just an unfortunate series of events which caused an epic amount of damage.

It was a smaller plane, but a bomber crashed into the empire state building before. So I wouldn't say it was completely unknown.

Trees fall sideways because they are top heavy and are not 95% air. Also if that picture really is a person in the hole (is it from a video?) I don't see any flames at that particular point, assuming where that person was standing was at that temperature seems to be jumping the gun a little, without talking to them all we can do is make educated guesses and my guess is that the wind is blowing towards that side of the building pushing the heat away, he/she may have got there from either a lower or higher floor and was looking for survivors/a way out/checking the view.

It's just where gravity takes it. Nature always takes the easiest route.

If you look at the smoke from the other fire it is moving straight to the direction of the left of the screen and not backwards, So I take it the wind wasn't heading straight into the hole. Fire is organic, so I guess it used all the fuel it had in that area and moved on.

Which some specialists and scientists have also studied and decided could well be paint primer...

Haha! Really? Could be or is?

I want to stress again... Although I believe alot of 9/11 questions have not been unanswered and I find alot of it very fishy, I don't necessarily agree with what I have been saying. So what I have said in this topic isn't what I think happened.

What I have been discussing with Ali is the conspiracy theories that I believe could be understandable or that I agree with more than the official story. I wanted to get a good discussion going with both points of view.

I don't think it was investigated properly. It's one of the biggest crimes ever and I don't think it was treated that way. Like I said earlier... If they have nothing to hide then what excuse do they have?

Edited September 12, 2011 by Mikee

[Laurence--Trials]

Was the attack on the pentagon on the same day as the twin towers?

[Mikee]

Was the attack on the pentagon on the same day as the twin towers?

Yes.

[Fish-Finger-er]

my views, planes did hit the twin towers, the twin towers did fall due to the planes hitting them.

however the fact of whether the hijackers where who america said they were, whether america knew of a terrorist attack of some kind prior to 9/11 are all up for debate.

look at it this way, america needed a war, america heard of an impending terror attack regarding the hijack of civilian air craft on US soil, they allow it to happen knowing it would create a war, thinking maybe worst case scenario, the hijackers would kill everyone on board.but in reality something much worse happens, that they were neither prepared for, or knew how to handle.

Would explain stuff like the ac130 above washington, the military carrying out "exercises" that day, the f16's heading towards the atlantic. (thinking the jets would be hijacked and either flown around for a bit, or brought to land somewhere else, till demands where met). but is still something they could never admit.

A lot more plausible, a lot less far fetched(america allowing a couple of hundred people tops to die, to give reason for a war).

*this proves how easy it is to create a conspiracy theory, ive just created this one now, in about 10 minutes, with no real knowledge or interest in the thing, as far as i can see it doesnt have too many holes, when enough people are creating conspiracy theories, some of them are bound to line up all the dots, doesnt mean they are true

[Laurence--Trials]

Thats a good theory im not gonna lie.

[Matt Vandart]

my views, planes did hit the twin towers, the twin towers did fall due to the planes hitting them.

however the fact of whether the hijackers where who america said they were, whether america knew of a terrorist attack of some kind prior to 9/11 are all up for debate.

look at it this way, america needed a war, america heard of an impending terror attack regarding the hijack of civilian air craft on US soil, they allow it to happen knowing it would create a war, thinking maybe worst case scenario, the hijackers would kill everyone on board.but in reality something much worse happens, that they were neither prepared for, or knew how to handle.

Would explain stuff like the ac130 above washington, the military carrying out "exercises" that day, the f16's heading towards the atlantic. (thinking the jets would be hijacked and either flown around for a bit, or brought to land somewhere else, till demands where met). but is still something they could never admit.

A lot more plausible, a lot less far fetched(america allowing a couple of hundred people tops to die, to give reason for a war).

*this proves how easy it is to create a conspiracy theory, ive just created this one now, in about 10 minutes, with no real knowledge or interest in the thing, as far as i can see it doesnt have too many holes, when enough people are creating conspiracy theories, some of them are bound to line up all the dots, doesnt mean they are true

I had never thought of it like that either its a good theory.

[Revolver]

Either way, I'll be taking any tests shown by the conspiracy guys with a pinch of salt. I want to see every side of the story by a completely neutral source point before I start to believe it was all planned.

This sums up my view pretty well. Governments are great at covering up stuff, much the same as conspiracy guys like to crank things up to make them more dramatic. Both of those can be classed as lying.

At the end of the day, it's remarkably suspicious, but you just can't say until you know every little tiny detail.

[yoyoyo]

Would explain stuff like the ac130 above washington, the military carrying out "exercises" that day, the f16's heading towards the atlantic. (thinking the jets would be hijacked and either flown around for a bit, or brought to land somewhere else, till demands where met). but is still something they could never admit.

I know you're not saying that's what you believe, but the documentary on BBC1 said the F16's flew to the Atlantic because the training had always been for a plane hijacked outside of us airspace or something, so all training had been based on a jet coming in from the Atlantic. Plus at that point air traffic control weren't entirely sure what was going on and which planes had been hijacked, so i guess they just followed standard procedure.

The plane in DC was just a C-130, so just cargo. Though granted you could always say it had been kitted out to fly a drone/ missile/ whatever the alternative theory is for the pentagon crash. They interviewed the pilot on it too, which i guess would have been a bit risky for the gov had he been involved in a conspiracy.

[Fish-Finger-er]

I know you're not saying that's what you believe, but the documentary on BBC1 said the F16's flew to the Atlantic because the training had always been for a plane hijacked outside of us airspace or something, so all training had been based on a jet coming in from the Atlantic. Plus at that point air traffic control weren't entirely sure what was going on and which planes had been hijacked, so i guess they just followed standard procedure.

The plane in DC was just a C-130, so just cargo. Though granted you could always say it had been kitted out to fly a drone/ missile/ whatever the alternative theory is for the pentagon crash. They interviewed the pilot on it too, which i guess would have been a bit risky for the gov had he been involved in a conspiracy.

yea but im just giving my "explanation" on the whole thing, and the whole point is there are explanations for what happened (i.e the governments ones) but in a matter of minutes a person with an iq of around 140, with no interest in conspiracy theories, air craft and have never once watched 24 and very little gift of the gab. can produce alternative reasons, entirely more plausible than many ideas, and have a couple of people go "hey thats a pretty good theory" then a group of highly intelligent individuals, with several years, loads of research and a boat load more interest than me, should be able to produce some pretty convincing alternative theories, but it doesnt mean they're right.

my personal belief, is there may well be a conspiracy, but it is way more likely to be as i said, either the us knew of a plan to hijack airliners, or knew of a plan to fly planes into buildings, but assumed they'd be cessnas or the like and let it happen. or something along them lines, i dont believe the us did it via autopilot and missiles, the attacks where real, whether they did all they could to prevent them, or fabricated some of the evidence to launch an attack on afghanistan without being able to prove it came from there.

as for interviews on TV, i dont really believe anyone(well i do, but i know i shouldnt). Ian Huntley gave a tv interview after killing 2 schoolgirls, no one saw through that,after what hed done, with no acting background, no answers, no rehearsals. Shannon Matthews had everyone fooled when appealing for news on her daughters kidnap,and I would imagine she could count her braincells on her 11 toes. So to believe a "pilot" who if he was a pilot would most likely have rehearsed the interviews, had training on it, and thats before you think it may not have actually been a pilot and either a government offical, or an actor paid by the bush administration.

[Mikee]

my views, planes did hit the twin towers, the twin towers did fall due to the planes hitting them.

however the fact of whether the hijackers where who america said they were, whether america knew of a terrorist attack of some kind prior to 9/11 are all up for debate.

look at it this way, america needed a war, america heard of an impending terror attack regarding the hijack of civilian air craft on US soil, they allow it to happen knowing it would create a war, thinking maybe worst case scenario, the hijackers would kill everyone on board.but in reality something much worse happens, that they were neither prepared for, or knew how to handle.

Would explain stuff like the ac130 above washington, the military carrying out "exercises" that day, the f16's heading towards the atlantic. (thinking the jets would be hijacked and either flown around for a bit, or brought to land somewhere else, till demands where met). but is still something they could never admit.

A lot more plausible, a lot less far fetched(america allowing a couple of hundred people tops to die, to give reason for a war).

this proves how easy it is to create a conspiracy theory, ive just created this one now, in about 10 minutes, with no real knowledge or interest in the thing, as far as i can see it doesnt have too many holes, when enough people are creating conspiracy theories, some of them are bound to line up all the dots, doesnt mean they are true

4 of the hijecker could still alive according to the BBC. Aswell as 5 others apparently (if I find a good source for the others later I will link it).

Also the Government let it happen theory has been around for a long time.

At the end of the day, it's remarkably suspicious, but you just can't say until you know every little tiny detail.

This is about where I stand. Although if I had to make a dicision here and now of wich I believed more, I think I would sway against the governments story.

[PaRtZ]

I guess this proves the plane does take off...