London Riots

[Muel]

Indeed Sam it does suck, and much Kudos to your parents and yourself, many people don't realise how bad poverty can be out in the sticks as well as in inner cities, the fact of the matter is that rural people are more civilised and realistic than many city dwellers.

It wasn't poverty though, we never starved to death or dehydrated, we just ate cheaply and were happy with what we had. The key IMO isn't how much you have, it's how much you have to do. I work a 40 hour week at the moment and I'm bored shitless. My evenings are filled with f**king minecraft. All I want is more work so I can earn a better future for myself.

These people don't want that, they've been brought up to fail. Society has no expectation for them, but unfortunately they are not a minority like the proerly poor people were where I grew up, (not like us, families who had to send their kids to school in shoes 2 sizes too small, properly poor), they are a majority, and when you have a big group of people all with a common grudge, shit's gonna go down. They all feel hard done too not because they haven't been given opportunities and not because their situation is shit, but because they are expected to grow up, live out their short lives and die in poverty. If they had any promise of a future, they wouldn't be taking part in this uprising, because they'd be where I am now, at f**king work!

Humans are simple things by nature, if there is an easy way to survive and a hard way, they'll choose the easy way. But, if you force the hard way upon them, they'll usually be happier for it when they see themselves progressing.

In conclusion, I'm a bit of a communist. People in general make stupid choices, so they need their choices taking away. (China's 1 child policy for example. probably the least nice thing to think about, but if they hadn't done it they'd have been f**ked).

[Matt Vandart]

That is quite possibly the best thing said in this whole thread.

[JD™]

Anyway I am out.

You got my hopes up

My problem is the fact that this doesn't need to turn into a "lets spout completely unsubstantiated bollox" thread. So far there has been factual information about what's going on in the now UK Riots (perhaps a change of title is in order) and your doomsday shit that's been argued a few times already isn't needed.

[Simpson]

They all feel hard done too not because they haven't been given opportunities

Well they have? In our country if your born into poverty it doesn't mean that your doomed to fail, but you have to want something more for youself, nothing in this life is free and you have to get to where you need to be yourself. This is obviously easier if you have rich parents who send you to private schools etc. But one of my best mates went to a school where you failed, period. He got all A*'s and A's, and is now at imperial doing a math's based degree, gets government grants to support him and will earn a shit load in the future.

Its the culture of these people to not care and do badly which f**ks them up, but they've been given the opportunity already to do something more and have chosen to take the easy route.

EDIT: and i will argue that no-one on here is in poverty, if you can afford to spend money on trials bikes which constantly break and cost £300 to buy then you have spare money. * obviously this bit is an exaggerated statement

Edited August 10, 2011 by Simpson

[Revolver]

The thing I identify as the source of chavs is their mothers. They're unprepared and uneducated, they have no sense of discipline so how can they impart any on their kids? All they want is for the kid to be quiet, yet they're not able to follow through with punishment. Thus, the kid learns a loud voice and that they can get away with anything.

Discipline is the difference between US and THEM.

[MonsieurMonkey]

The thing I identify as the source of chavs is their mothers. They're unprepared and uneducated, they have no sense of discipline so how can they impart any on their kids? All they want is for the kid to be quiet, yet they're not able to follow through with punishment. Thus, the kid learns a loud voice and that they can get away with anything.

Discipline is the difference between US and THEM.

I wasn't going to get involved anymore with all of this stuff, but I just can't stop myself now. It's not their mothers, it's their entire lifestyle. This is going to be long, and probably choppy, so I apologise if it's a hard read but I'm not gonna edit it.

There are two kinds of control, social and self. When we know people are watching us, this dictates our behaviour, this is one form social control, our own inbuilt principles of what we believe is right and wrong is self control. It's been found that low levels of self control is passed from parents to children, so this means if your parents can't control themselves you probably won't be able to either. Not only this, from research I've done there is a dip in levels of control between the ages of 14 and 18 for everyone, now obviously for those of us who have higher levels of control this hardly effects us, but for those with already low levels of control they become unbelievable. Looking at this country, and the rates of teenage pregnancy and violence and general wankerishness this explains a lot. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but these people are brought up by parents who couldn't give a f**k, and not only do they learn to not give a f**k, but they have a pre-disposition to not care.

Not only this but the area that the riots started in in London are zones of transition, these areas house generally low income and immigrant populations and is found just outside your commercial and business districts, too close to the city for your more well off commuters but close enough for the economic overspill of the city to provide jobs etc. Not really relevant, but you've got a lot of people who probably feel disenfranchised because of their situation in the same area, who see a lot of people not only in the media but around them who are living comfortably, not only this they have no self control leading to no respect or care for the social controls, some of which don't exist because their entire community deem something normal like petty crimes. They're gonna act out every now and then, some of these places are like zoos of throwbacks to a more uncivilised time.

Edit: Missed out a huge bit of info, the age of low control (14-18) is a time where kids are very easy influenced, so the other scum bags help sway them into their way of life. Meaning some of these people can be saved, as long as they aren't influenced during that age, this is why in more "posh" areas you don't get as many chavs, their is more "good" influence during this period of their lives so they don't become a scum bag.

Edited August 10, 2011 by MonsieurMonkey

[F.N.G]

It's not their mothers, it's their entire lifestyle.

Who brought them to this s***hole then?.

Why should Their mothers allow them to go out at that time of night? They must Know what their child have been doing?

Edited August 10, 2011 by F.N.G

[davidbarr]

Who brought them to this s***hole then?.

Why should Their mothers allow them to go out at that time of night? They must Know what their child have been doing?

+1. They're probably not bothered if they're getting a free TV out of it.

[OAP]

I wasn't going to get involved anymore with all of this stuff, but I just can't stop myself now. It's not their mothers, it's their entire lifestyle. This is going to be long, and probably choppy, so I apologise if it's a hard read but I'm not gonna edit it.

There are two kinds of control, social and self. When we know people are watching us, this dictates our behaviour, this is one form social control, our own inbuilt principles of what we believe is right and wrong is self control. It's been found that low levels of self control is passed from parents to children, so this means if your parents can't control themselves you probably won't be able to either. Not only this, from research I've done there is a dip in levels of control between the ages of 14 and 18 for everyone, now obviously for those of us who have higher levels of control this hardly effects us, but for those with already low levels of control they become unbelievable. Looking at this country, and the rates of teenage pregnancy and violence and general wankerishness this explains a lot. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but these people are brought up by parents who couldn't give a f**k, and not only do they learn to not give a f**k, but they have a pre-disposition to not care.

Not only this but the area that the riots started in in London are zones of transition, these areas house generally low income and immigrant populations and is found just outside your commercial and business districts, too close to the city for your more well off commuters but close enough for the economic overspill of the city to provide jobs etc. Not really relevant, but you've got a lot of people who probably feel disenfranchised because of their situation in the same area, who see a lot of people not only in the media but around them who are living comfortably, not only this they have no self control leading to no respect or care for the social controls, some of which don't exist because their entire community deem something normal like petty crimes. They're gonna act out every now and then, some of these places are like zoos of throwbacks to a more uncivilised time.

Edit: Missed out a huge bit of info, the age of low control (14-18) is a time where kids are very easy influenced, so the other scum bags help sway them into their way of life. Meaning some of these people can be saved, as long as they aren't influenced during that age, this is why in more "posh" areas you don't get as many chavs, their is more "good" influence during this period of their lives so they don't become a scum bag.

This makes interesting reading and a lot of sense. My business, a small independent business, which me and the Mrs have worked unbelievably hard to build and have sacrificed a lot for, is based in the heart of Manchester. It's not as bad as expected this morning, but a lot of our neighbours have had their shops damaged or raided. We are so small we can clear out stock and valuables each evening, so we are ok for now. My thoughts go out to all those effected by these low life scum, which ever city or area you are in.

[MonsieurMonkey]

Who brought them to this s***hole then?.

Why should Their mothers allow them to go out at that time of night? They must Know what their child have been doing?

So what about their fathers? I am definitely more shit scared of my dad than my mum. Now if you say they're single parent families. Surely it's completely their fathers fault for having a kid then f**king off?

Blaming their parents is pointless, and part of the problem, we need to hold people accountable for their actions, not blame others for them. Our society looks for excuses and the easy way out all the time. I'm not saying parents aren't part of the problem, but by the time I was 8 I knew that you shouldn't steal, or burn other people's property.

[Luke Rainbird]

by the time I was 8 I knew that you shouldn't steal, or burn other people's property.

But... but you're from Liverpool?!

[F.N.G]

I'm not saying parents aren't part of the problem, but by the time I was 8 I knew that you shouldn't steal, or burn other people's property.

Their parents have taught them differently then, If they Do steal and burn.

Edited August 10, 2011 by F.N.G

[MonsieurMonkey]

But... but you're from Liverpool?!

I'm from St Helens! Although it's still full of c**ts.

Their parents have taught them differently then, If they Do steal and burn.

Can you not see how this is something I know? It's not just their parents, you're more influenced by your peers than your parents at the ages that are involved here. We see in the media constantly what is and isn't bad, whether it's fact or fiction. I'm not gonna argue this point anymore, you either lived with your parents through ages 0-18 and didn't see anyone else, or your parents were incredibly strict if you learnt everything from them and did exactly what they told you to do constantly.

[F.N.G]

Can you not see how this is something I know? It's not just their parents, you're more influenced by your peers than your parents at the ages that are involved here. We see in the media constantly what is and isn't bad, whether it's fact or fiction. I'm not gonna argue this point anymore, you either lived with your parents through ages 0-18 and didn't see anyone else, or your parents were incredibly strict if you learnt everything from them and did exactly what they told you to do constantly.

Well Them and Their friends Must be soo stupid if they are convinced to do this, especially If it will Mess up your life...

They must think all this stuff is good?? They did not even care about that man That got shot, They are just using it as an excuse......

Edited August 10, 2011 by F.N.G

[MonsieurMonkey]

Well Them and Their Must be soo stupid if they are convinced to do this, especially If it will Mess up your life...

They must think all this stuff is good?? They did not even care about that man That got shot, They are just using it as an excuse......

This is where you need to read my entire first post, the zone of transition comes into play now. This is a poverty stricken area with people who have no aims in their life, they have no prospects, none of their family would have and none of their peers do. So they're not messing up their lives in their eyes because they don't have a life to mess up, they're all going to be sponging off benefits probably, so they don't care.

They don't see it as something good, they see it as a way to make a bit of easy money and something to do during their boring and utterly shit lives.

[F.N.G]

I did read it all, it's just some of the words I don't understand

Edited August 10, 2011 by F.N.G

[Davetrials]

Getting a bus tnite though Manchester Birmingham and Bristol. should be fun.

[MonsieurMonkey]

I did read it all, it's just some of the words I don't understand

I wasn't being a knob if it came across that way, like I said at the start of my post I didn't want to write an essay, just wanted to get the points out there.

[Rich Hill]

Getting a bus tnite though Manchester Birmingham and Bristol. should be fun.

What time you heading through brum? Im going to come throw bricks at you

[F.N.G]

I wasn't being a knob if it came across that way, like I said at the start of my post I didn't want to write an essay, just wanted to get the points out there.

Dont worry , I understand That you would Like to get your point of veiw out regardless of me or others that cant understand long words

Edited August 10, 2011 by F.N.G

[Mark W]

What time you heading through brum? Im going to come throw bricks at you

Standard Birmingham 'welcome' for any horseless carriage?

[Matthew62]

This is where you need to read my entire first post, the zone of transition comes into play now. This is a poverty stricken area with people who have no aims in their life, they have no prospects, none of their family would have and none of their peers do. So they're not messing up their lives in their eyes because they don't have a life to mess up, they're all going to be sponging off benefits probably, so they don't care.

They don't see it as something good, they see it as a way to make a bit of easy money and something to do during their boring and utterly shit lives.

In London though these areas aren't poverty stricken, they're are very much mixed. Lewisham that got hit has plenty of good people in (i live on the border myself) as do many other hard working people and families. Peckham Rye has some very nice areas to, and has become a very expensive place to live, didn't stop them burning shit down there.

Clapham is becoming increasingly well-to-do so i don't go along with that theory.

If you can;t find an opportunity in London you might as well give up on life all together, as there's so much available if you're willing to look for it, and work at it.

These are just the actions of very lazy, stupid people who seem to have a falsely justified chip on their shoulder.

[MonsieurMonkey]

But there are areas within walking distance of those that are shit holes? Poverty stricken was probably too strong of a description, more lower levels of income or benefits type folk. Like I said, if you lived in a shit hole that borders on a nicer area, you're probably gonna go cause problems in the nicer area. It was like in Liverpool, there were problems on Smithdown road, which is largely a student area, but there's still enough scum bags near by causing problems.

And that theory is nearly 100 years old and has held true for that long, so it's kinda hard to argue against, it's generally seen as circles radiating from the centre of a city. So it's not necessarily the neighbourhood itself, it's more that the entire area within a certain distance from the city centre is possibly problematic. The further you get from the city centre the less problems there are, there's less of the "problematic group" which I'm sure you'd agree.

Seems 3 people died in Birmingham last night.

Edited August 10, 2011 by MonsieurMonkey

[Matthew62]

But there are areas within walking distance of those that are shit holes? Poverty stricken was probably too strong of a description, more lower levels of income or benefits type folk. Like I said, if you lived in a shit hole that borders on a nicer area, you're probably gonna go cause problems in the nicer area. It was like in Liverpool, there were problems on Smithdown road, which is largely a student area, but there's still enough scum bags near by causing problems.

Seems 3 people died in Birmingham last night.

Where then? I am within walking distance of the areas in London that got hit hard, and on the whole they're not shit holes. My point is i think we're just making excuses for these people, they almost enjoy the idea of being repressed and deprived, when they do nothing to change the situation themselves. Nowhere in this country is truly a shit hole. If you complain about the state of things in Britain then you need your f**king head checked, compared to the suffering and conditions of other places around the world.

My girlfriend and I both work a 40 hour week and can only afford to live in the less desirable areas of Central London (as is the case for many) yet there are tonnes of shit heads doing shit all with their lives when the opportunities are very much there, living nice and close to the centre.

Of course areas differ in terms of "niceness" but pretty much anywhere in London has plenty of amenities and things to do, and has schemes in place to clean and look after the place. It really is simple as lazy people making excuses for their lazy lives as they're jealous of those with more who have worked for what they have. They expect to live in comfort having never lifted a finger, having never listened in school - having never done anything with their lives what so ever.

I'm tired of these apparently down-trodden people saying they want respect. It ain't an entitlement, earn that shit. I get "disrespected" every god damn day but i'm not going to steal from people because of it, because i'm not a simple minded, ignorant animal.

[dirt jumper jake]

This has been a long time coming i think now, Purely down to the fact the usual low achievers at school in the previous generation generally got the low payed unskilled jobs like dustbinmen/council worker/manual labour etc. But the low achievers in Our generation dont have the oppurtunity for these jobs, mainly because the goverment are trying to spur them on at school to do things like IT & skilled jobs which theyre quite obviously not cut out for & the fact that foriegners come over and take the unskilled jobs for less pay than a british dude would. Therefore these underachieving "brits" have nothing to do and all this comes about....