Deliberate Self Harm/suicide

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Edited July 20, 2011 by DrDoom

[dann2707]

I don't agree when people say it's selfish. When you are feeling that low/depressed you don't think about how it can effect others. You simply don't care.

I've never even considered self harm or anything - don't need to, my life is fantastic, but obviously can fluctuate to some degree. I can understand it when people feel like they are in a hole they can't climb out of. It feels truly awful and everything, everyday tends to piss you off. But I always like to think there is always a way out of something. Not just by counselling, but by finding your inner spirit.

[Hannah Shucksmith]

I'm going to go with suicide depending on the circumstances. I know that my own attempts were pretty selfish and I'd have been leaving a lot of people with unbearable emotional agony. I think in some cases it can be okay, for example: if you're dying of a terminal illness that will first see you physically paralysed and unable to talk. (Fully aware of how hypocritical I sound already!) Since I've posted a link to my recovery blog on here, I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm a constant self-harmer and have been since I was 9. I don't harm so much anymore, although I don't just harm via methods of cutting / burning and would consider behaviour like purging a form of self harm. I guess it's an overly sensitive topic, but I also believe things like DSH are overlooked far too much in society. I'm often made to feel ashamed of my self harm, especially when I've had to go to A&E because I've cut my right arm and can't stitch with my left. The nurses are very patronising and judgemental - it doesn't really bother me too much when I come to remember that they're meant to be treating 'accidents' and 'emergencies', of which I am neither when it comes to self harm.

It's an interesting topic to discuss. I've actually just posted pictures on my blog of my DSH to remind myself that I'll achieve nothing but the promise of a nasty scar by taking a sharp instrument or flame to my self.

Edit: Feel free to ask questions, by the way. I'm willing to talk about it if anyone's interested.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Hannah Shucksmith

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Greetings]

I'd go with depends on circumstances but in most suicide must be treated as a very selfish act. You're relieveing yourself of pain (emotional/physical) with no consideration for other people who like or even love you and who's life you are a part of. I'd happily take part in this discussion if one could remain anonymous but since that's not the case, I'm done

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Thats one of the first things I noticed - even the specialists in that field are almost, patronising? It's such a sensitive topic, and so 'taboo' that it is so often overlooked, and makes people feel too afraid to talk about their problems... Why risk telling someone? Why risk feeling like another person hates you? Instead, due to the sensitivity, you end up keeping everything in, and it all gets gradually worse!

Precisely. After my last suicide attempt, the first thing I remember after waking up when a nurse was changing over my empty Parvolex to a new bag, was her looking at me and just saying - "Had a bad day sweetheart?" I know she was only trying to make me feel better but I felt like shaking her and screaming "Every day is a bad day. I've not just woken up from a coma because burnt my toast and the only mail I got were bills!"

I also despise how every nurse and doctor seems to presume that my DSH and suicidal ideation is linked to some form abuse. I can remember during my last admission to Winchester General, one nurse casually approached me and asked "Did you try to kill yourself because you've been abused, or what?" I can't begin to explain how shocked I was.

General self harm seems to be ignored so much in A and E. The day before I was admitted to The Priory I was admitted to Winchester General following yet another OD and I took a blade with me. They do a mental health assessment following any overdose and for the entire time I sat there cutting my arms (not deep, I should note) with aformentioned blade. All the nurses saw me, I got blood all over the sheets and the assessment lasted an hour. There's no way that the nurses didn't see me cutting; I was sat there cross legged on the bed, singing twinkle twinkle little star to myself and just carving away at my lower arm. No one said anything though, no one asked if I'd like any sedating medication (it was on my notes that I could be given this at any time if requested or required.), no one even asked if I'd like a tissue to stem the bleeding. There's no doubt in my mind that they thought I was attention seeking and inflicting the injuries for reasons other than what I had tried to explain when asked about my DSH in general. I told them "I do it when I can't talk about how I feel." And that's why I was doing it, because they were firing such obtuse questions at me that I didn't know what to say and could only express how much I hurt through the cutting.

The staff at every psychiactric unit I've been in have all been very patronising and fail to show any sort of empathy when I've been desperate enough to cut. I've often been found cutting when on high level observations and they just fetch you some saline and steri-strips and leave you to clean up and get on with things. I know that they're required to hand the responsibility over to us but I can't once remember being asked "are you okay?" or "once you've cleaned the cuts would you like someone to talk to?".

I find people in general to be very scarily interested in my fresh cuts and scars. I was in the local newsagents a few weeks ago with the fresh wounds unbandaged. When I was being served the lady behind the counter just asked "Sunburn?" I actually stood there in silence for a minute before openly telling her "No, I cut myself. Do these cuts look like sunburn to you?"

No doubt I'll edit this post when the wine's worn off and I remember I'm not Tumblring.

[JT!]

I don't see it as a selfish act, suicidal people feel depressed on a level where they want to end their lives the last thing they're going to do is consider what it might do to others, I guess the opposite could be considered if anything, the friends and family who do nothing providing they are aware of it.

The problem is once a persons depression gets to that point, it doesn't even occur to them to rationally think that it could simply be a chemical imbalance solved by a couple of pills. What needs to be done is to make people aware of that so they can turn to psychiatrics / doctors before it overwhelms them.

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Medication helps for a while, but it's almost as if your body builds an immunity and you start to feel even worse!

Werd to that. The only medication that ever hits me is Mirtazapine or Olanzapine. Both cause me massive weight gain (I gained 9kg in 13 days on Mirtazpine with no change in diet!) and Olanzapine just knocks me out for 24 hours so they refuse to provide me with either. No other anti-depressant, anti-anxiety medication or neuroleptic has ever helped me. When I was first put on a course of medication I was seeing my GP every 3 days and within 2 weeks I was taking quadruple the starting dose because I wasn't even getting the side effects, e.g. nausea and drowsiness. Med's seem to work really well for some people, and not so well for others. Last time I did any research I found out that under a quarter of the total amount of Paracetamol I took should have killed me, and it didn't.

I did once gain an emotional attachment with a female nurse in the Emergency department. I was put on 2:1 observations (2 nurses within arms reach at all times) because I was deemed such a high risk to myself; I thought I was superman and tried to throw myself off of a bridge an hour before hand. I went all depressive and started telling her "this is never going to go away, can't anyone see? I'm going to be like this forever." All I remember is her looking at me and seeing her eyes fill with tears. She walked out of the room soon after and another nurse had to replace her. I saw her when I was last admitted and she remembered me easily enough. I also saw her in the coffee shop within the hospital grounds and she asked me how I was doing. After small talk she told me that she found me in my room on the floor with the cannula torn out my arm and me choking on drug-induced vomit. Saved my life apparently. Never got her name; it's a shame because I'd love more than anything to send her a thank you card and a bunch of flowers.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Hannah Shucksmith

[Little Yoshi]

I dont think its selfish. I have helped sevral friends who have been self harming/suicidal. Once you get that low you dont think there is any turning back. So why carry on? Been there myself. I must say the skye bride was looking aweful tempting at some points.

If anyone wants to talk/ask questiong reply here or drop a pm. Always up for helping.

P.S. Good to see you back hannah.

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Hannah Shucksmith]

I did leave cards for the ward staff after my week long admission in Intensive Care so I'm hoping she may have read the card there. I wrote her a little message, and wonder if she actually knew it was her I was talking about. Thinking about it, maybe she was really my imagination - I was highly delusional! I think the chance of relapse is high, although I've been removed from all the situations that made my mental health take a turn for the worst i.e. Living at home, particular social groups, identified triggers, and I've gained coping skills through DBT, CBT and other more individualised therapies.

In a way, I'm glad I'm alive. It obviously wasn't my time to die; if it was, I'd have done it. The wooden beam snapped when I tried to hang myself, I was wrestled to the ground by security guards at the multi-storey car park and I've never phoned 999 for myself after an OD; I've always been found out or I've confessed when the medication starts to kick in and I'm somewhere between concious and unconcious. I realise, for now, that there is point to my life and since I've been formally diagnosed I know which areas I really need to work on in order to progress. In short, I'm glad I didn't die. At the time of suicide I don't think I ever really wanted to die. I just needed to find an answer, a solution, a way from escaping such intense pain.

Edit: P.S. Thanks Lewis. I still remember you calling me a Southern bitch on the phone. Pretty sure that was my 18th Birthday and I made you repeat it several times because I couldn't understand your Scottish wanker accent. x

Edited July 21, 2011 by Hannah Shucksmith

[Little Yoshi]

most just turned me on and left me feeling sexually frustrated,

What he said ^

I've gone for a nice slow walk along that bridge, not the easiest railings to walk across in the wet! Same with sitting ontop of the Ballachulish bridge, drinking... Can see the blue lights coming from miles away!

Well that eplains alot!

And if you ever want a chat lad you got my number.

Edit: P.S. Thanks Lewis. I still remember you calling me a Southern bitch on the phone. Pretty sure that was my 18th Birthday and I made you repeat it several times because I couldn't understand your Scottish wanker accent. x

Im sure the nurse would of worked it out.

And I do belive that was after you called me a Northern/Scottish b*****d. And it think you will find with was posh bitch.

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Coping skills - do you really think they help? Or is it a case of 'this is ment to be helping, so I'll put my own recovery down to it'

Like with a cold, I guess - yes, you can learn to cope with a cold, but it's still there and still feels the same. The feelings only stop as you get better. So, is it the coping skills or are you genuinely getting better?

I've always personally thought 'coping skills' were the shrinks way of taking credit for you becoming stronger, and getting better.

I think you're right in the sense that perhaps the coping skills I'm learning were always in me and I just didn't know them, howerver I did attend an Emotional Coping Skills group for 4 weeks and found a massive improvement in my thought pattern and subsequent behaviour. I'm not really sure how much of the emotional coping skills were learnt or I already knew and just couldn't apply. The DBT is extremely helpful though, and I'd definitely recommend picking up a book on it. I'm fairly sure you can't be referred for DBT or CBT by your CMHT until you're 18 (correct me if I'm wrong!) which is a real shame.

I'm sure Ben Rowlands won't mind me mentioning his recommendation for mindfulness; that's an amazing skill to have, particularly when you are in an incredible state of heightened emotion. Give it a Google if you're unsure!

I might have a spare Emotional Coping Skills pack, come to think of it. I'll hunt for it on Saturday when I get back to the flat and send it up if I can find it.

@Lewis: Yeah it's okay, I'm allowed to forget, I'm officially a nutter.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Hannah Shucksmith

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Hannah Shucksmith]

If you don't mind me asking, what are the various ways you've harmed yourself? If you dont wanna say, thats fine, or if you dont want to post on here - fb or pm me!

I don't mind posting; I post everything on my blog as it is, and you follow that! After noticing how many people actually have or do self-harm, I'm going to put my ways in spoilers, as not to unintentionally trigger anyone.

I cut myself, mainly with blades although I've been known to use hairslides, broken glass, snapped pens and springs when I've been massively desperate. I burn myself a fair bit. I keep lighters on me and make the metal hot before taking that to my skin, I burn with straightners, the cooker, etc. I also set fire to things, such as all the paper in a bin, and hold my arm above it until it blisters. I often throw scalding water over myself, although normally on my stomach or legs. I friction burn (this became my primary method of DSH when on the high dependancy unit and they had to pin me to the floor to cut off my nails!) by repeatedly scratching and rubbing at skin until I can peel it away as a layer. I kick and punch things until I bruise. When I was about 12 I also threw myself down the stairs to intentionally hurt myself and snapped both of my arms. I headbutt the wall or doors often and have done so to knock myself out before. I jump from high walls or railings to hurt my ankles and knees. I've been known to drink nail varnish remover and intentionally pour white spirit or bleach into my eyes. I force myself to sit in a boiling both bath or a freezing cold bath that I've filled with bags of ice cubes from the corner shop (oh they love me down there!), I act on my bulimic tendancies and overdose on laxatives (even 42 won't do anything now), or I ram my toothbrush to the back of my throat as my fingers can no longer stimulate my gag reflex (And that's why I don't stay single for long, obviously...) and vomit until it's pretty much just blood, I often starve myself until I pass out, I overdose on enough medication to do me damage but not kill me (intentionally not to kill me, by the way), I tie socks / jackets / belts / scarves around my neck and pull them until I see white dots infront of my eyes and know I'm close to passing out. That's all I can think of for now.

Oh, and whoever left the anonymous submission on my blog, thank you

Edited July 21, 2011 by Hannah Shucksmith

[JD™]

Didn't read all of this, and don't want to become part of the TF Hannah Support Group, but here's my personal thoughts through experience:

4 years ago last January my best mate took his life. We grew up together from the age of 5, went to the same schools and spent most evenings after school riding bikes or playing games or whatever else kids do as they grow up. We told each other everything, knew everything about each other because basically we didn't leave any time for anything to happen when we weren't both there!

When we were 14 or so, Daniel and his family moved down to Devon. We started off by going down there every single weekend, because our entire families were entwined through our friendship. Every weekend turned to every other weekend turned to once a month - as time goes on you just can't spend that much time visiting one family so far away.

Slowly me and Dan began to see each other less and less, but we still kept in touch and knew what was going on in each others lives. After even more time even that began to drop off as we were both just so busy - both trying to be some sort of musical genius, and him doing rather better at it than I was.

When Pocket Rocket were getting a bit better and starting to lay some demo tracks down for the album, we started chatting a bit more again - even as so much distance had come between us, it seemed like we'd never stopped being 'best mates' and we talked again of me driving down ASAP.

Then one morning I was on Myspace (jeez) to find a message telling me that Dan had been found dead during the night. He'd hung himself over the staircase of his uni accomodation with a guitar cord. The last time we'd spoken was mere days before, and I had been sitting on MSN that same night waiting to chat to him and send him the latest PR demo. That sounds selfish of me, but the point is I didn't know what was going on - he didn't tell me anything about the fact he must have been contemplating suicide.

And here's where I get to the point. Daniel was the most selfish person I have ever known. I was there, I was always there. He knew that and he didn't take the opportunity to talk to me about how he felt. He didn't leave a note, that's selfish. His poor, amazing Mum will never know what drove her little boy to take the life which she'd given him. It's selfish that he hung himself, naked, over the stairway directly in front of the front door to accomodation he shared with close friends and females knowing that they'd find a cold, blue, lifeless body when they got home. It's selfish that he has made every single day of my life since contain some sort of thought of him, leading to what I could have done differently. It's selfish that I know I can't be the only one.

There is no excuse, no mitigating circumstances, no nothing. The definition of being selfish is to have a lack of consideration for others. If Dan truely considered how everyone around him would have been effected he'd still be alive.

[Muel]

I think a bit of clarification on the definition of "selfish" is needed here.

Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure

I can't see anything can look at it as anything but selfish really, but it's not something that can be chosen or controlled.

My uncle hung himself about 4-5 years ago, destroyed the entire extended family and we're still not "over it" yet. I don't really blame him though, he battled for 20 odd years with depression and suicidal episodes, but always did his best to make sure it had as little effect on the people he cared about as possible. Always worked, did a good job as well getting promotions and stuff, never claimed a single benefit or anything like that.

Before he killed himself, he completely sorted his life out. He told everyone he was going through a rough patch, and was going to stay with his mother, and packed up all of his stuff, most of it being marked for the tip but a everything useful was carefully boxed up and labeled. (Made life so much easier when my Dad and I went to empty the house, just carried what was left to the pickup and then took it to the tip

He updated his will, and (I think) even had all the utilities and bills canceled or disconnected (because he was moving back to his Mum's for an indefinite period).

I don't think it was ever his intention to get to his Mum's, he was just making sure there was as little paperwork and clearing up for the family to do as possible. He didn't leave a note, but it had been a 20+ year struggle that we all knew about, and his actions with the house and leaving stuff sorted spoke pretty loudly. That's how to do it without being selfish.

I just think that attempted suicide should be an actual attempt, none of this OD bollocks or attempting to slit your wrists, because it rarely works and it just tortures everyone who cares about you. If you're going to do it, make it as pain free for everyone else as possible. Put your affairs in order then do something final, like jumping off a bridge.

I realise I take a very hard line, but I'm still pretty sore and angry. An Uncle and a best friend going through this kinda stuff before you hit 20 will do that to you.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Muel

[Simpson]

And here's where I get to the point. Daniel was the most selfish person I have ever known. I was there, I was always there. He knew that and he didn't take the opportunity to talk to me about how he felt. He didn't leave a note, that's selfish. His poor, amazing Mum will never know what drove her little boy to take the life which she'd given him. It's selfish that he hung himself, naked, over the stairway directly in front of the front door to accomodation he shared with close friends and females knowing that they'd find a cold, blue, lifeless body when they got home. It's selfish that he has made every single day of my life since contain some sort of thought of him, leading to what I could have done differently. It's selfish that I know I can't be the only one.

100% agree.

I don't want to talk about it but I'll give you the jist, my uncle killed himself when he had 2 kids in my grans house and left her to find him. I lost my cousin. His Mum lost her son. His kids lost there father. I know a few people who have killed themselves and I think its a very weak and selfish thing to do. You can always turn your life around but its your job to do it. You can find when things are down theres no one for you, but at the end of the day when all the chips are down you have to be the one who has your back. Killing yourself is the easy way out.

[Borat]

It depends on the circumstance. If you've just come out of a relationship, or anything on the lines of that bollocks. I find it selfish. As let's face it. You'll find someone else, who could make you even happier. Because the person before didn't make you your happiest.

I've personally attempted suicide, because for reasons not even I know. I've also self harmed, and true friends were always there for me when I needed them. I don't do it no more, because it looks f**king disgusting, quite frankly.

My parents always noticed something different with me, compared to my brothers; all my life. I was a miserable cuunt, my moods would change like the wind, one minute I'd be right as rain. Next I'd be a miserable b*****d. So a year and a half ago, they took me for some testing. (blood tests etc)

And it turns out I have a rather large chemical imbalance. So I've been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder (Manic depression) and I'm being treated for it.

I know there are afew members on here who have overcome depression, Like Ali-C etc.

[Rusevelt]

Well considering the complexity of the mind, there are so many things out there that trigger self harm/suicide that we do not yet understand despite our advances in the medical world. Sh*t happens.

[Simpson]

Sh*t happens.

Fucking cunt.......... always you isn't it

[N.Wood]

Thats a pretty horrible read I have to say.

I'm gonna just let you know I have zero depression problems etc so this may be a stupid and / or hurtful question, but i'll plough on regardless. Some of those things I can sort of get my head around as its kinda spur of the moment.

Some of the methods, however, require some planning. Do you think 'today feels like a cold water bath day' then go to the shop, buy a load of ice, go home wait for the bath to fill then jump in thinking 'f**k me this is cold'? Are you crying at this point or has it become an every day activity?

Sorry again for my ignorance.

[Sam Nichols]

When someone close to you takes their own life it's the single most destructive thing that they can do to you.

You're not only losing somebody that you love unconditionally. You're also left with the overwhelming feeling of how utterly pathetic you are. To not be able to support the person you considered precious enough to have done anything for, the person you would put your own life in jeopardy to protect. This is soul destroying.

The feeling of knowing you weren't there for them when they ultimately needed your support the most is without a doubt the absolute lowest you can ever feel in your life. It doesn't really go away either, ever.

However, the human survival instinct is the most powerful of all instincts we possess. I don't believe it is possible for a person of sound mind to be able to intentionally take their own life. The only way to overcome such a powerful instinct is through mental illness. So for that reason I don't believe it is a selfish act.