Rockman Mod With 105 Bb Rise

[Revolver]

HAY GUIZ LOOK AT MY PROTO

[Hannah Shucksmith]

What is this f**kery?

[chimpanzyyyy]

HAY GUIZ LOOK AT MY PROTO

it's cracked

several times it seems

[Revolver]

It's only a proto though meight, it's some next level experimental light weight shit.

[Mark W]

Any higher and the top-tube/"seat"stays will have to be made an obtuse angle purely for chain clearance

Good to see experimentation, but I doubt it'll work.

Having said that, a few years ago +50 was the standard and we're at 75ish now...

Things becoming 'standard' in the trials world doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing, though. From my POV, the whole deal with higher BBs is to try and make bikes nicer on the back wheel, but you lose the sort of 'power' you can get from a lower BB as it sort of feels like you can't drive through as hard. Mods are piss easy to backhop all day long anyway, so why would you need to get ridiculous with BB height just to make one nicer on the back wheel? Especially seeing as it's also 'cool' to have a mega low front end with your risers rolled so far forward they're pointing down... I just don't really get it.

EDIT: Higher BB helps with 'to front' moves too, but again, mods are already so small you've got a pretty good size advantage over them anyway so it's not as much of a problem as it is on a 26" bike...

[Sam T]

it's cracked

several times it seems

It is a Rockman after all..

[aener]

Things becoming 'standard' in the trials world doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing, though.

Doesn't make it a bad thing, either.

I know I'm a lot more comfortable on the +80 Lite than the +50 Levelboss.

Makes me ride better. Maybe your style is just too far removed from the style this bike is made for that it doesn't sit right in your head.

I know a low BB doesn't work for me.

Edited July 18, 2011 by aener

[bike_dummie]

Didn't koxx make a proto frame with the uber high bb a while back, that sort of looked like a bike upside down?

[Ali C]

The overall geometry of the Levelboss compared to the Lite is quite a bit different though. Back end's around 15mm shorter, reach is going to be different, etc. Quite a lot of variables. I'm not saying a high BB is all bad, but it just seems like a massive knee-jerk reaction to the fact that Koxx are doing a +90mm mod frame now.

This was not Ali

EDIT: In terms of my style, I rode mod for 6-7 years before and although I found around +50-60 was quite nice, I just can't get used to the over 70mm BB heights at all 'cos it feels like you can't really put any power in for gaps or anything. Just seems to want to loop out the whole time...

[aener]

Then try harder

When you DO get used to it, it is so good.

[Kieran Morrison]

It is a Rockman after all..

hahaha +1

[Matthew62]

Then try harder

When you DO get used to it, it is so good.

Absolute rubbish.

Why should he have tried harder to ride a frame/bike he didn't/doesn't like? If 50/60mm suited him, why ride anything +70? Who cares if it's the latest thing. You shouldn't have to adapt and compromise the way you ride just to fit in with what the f**ker are shitting out in the far East. You ride how you wan't.

For you it might be sooo good but it's not for everyone.

I've never ridden anything over +35mm and god knows i never want to. This bike is for f**kers only! Anyone who is even slightly excited by it i think is a moron.

To me it's an indication of just how little trials riders actually ride anything other than trials. Anyone who rides mountain bikes, or a variety of disciplines will take one look at this bike and hope to never see it again. I don't get why so many people get in to bikes, to not want to ride anywhere, or roll anything?

[aener]

Whoa!

For starters, I thought the "" and "" would have done a fairly good job of implying humor - I realize this is not a bike suited to Mark, and my earlier comment makes that clear. Secondly; calm down!

If people get in to trials and only ride trials - what's the problem with that? Football is played on a field with posts and a ball, but people don't look down on them because they don't also play rugby. "I don't get why so many people get in to ball sports, to not want to ever pick the ball up in there hands, or have a scrum."

Other areas of cycling just don't interest some people, and that's fine.

I have a road bike with -25 BB, but that hasn't made me stop and think "Hang on, +80?! That's WAY higher than a bike that's designed for riding fast in straight lines and gentle corners! It must be horrible for jumping up and down walls!"

You have to understand that this bike isn't designed with riders like you in mind. The style of trials you ride (assuming you're a regular Inspired rider) is more closely related to street riding than competition trials. Of course they will have different geometries - they're for very different tasks. And since when did people competing NOT want the most suitable tool for the sport?

Finally - that mods don't roll is pure shit, to be honest. True - they don't roll as easy as others - but it's not as if you slow to a stop within 5 meters of not pedaling.

Bikes are practically designed. Yes - you might ride streety bikes for trials, the two mix rather well, but that doesn't make a "pure" trials geometry is a bad thing when it's used for what it's designed for.

Also, saying "This bike is for f**kers only! Anyone who is even slightly excited by it i think is a moron." makes you sound like a moron. Do you feel the same way about bike messengers in busy cities riding fixies? They can't coast anywhere! How moronic is that?

Edit: Thinking on it - I don't know any high BB riders that are aggressive towards a low BB. Never do you hear "Low BB?! Pah! That's a thing of that past and should be abolished!"

Edited July 19, 2011 by aener

[chimpanzyyyy]

don't forget high bb is mostly usefull in comps

higher bb = less contact with obstacles

better balance on back wheel is also usefull in comps

not my kind of bike, but if some people can ride it good, what's the matter?

[Ali C]

high bb was always a dis-advantage to me in comps, I just can't ride them. Every move seems harder especially sidehops, it's like you have to jump a good few inches higher to get the back wheel on the wall. As an example, I could do 50" sidehops on my Simtra with +15bb, then I had an Ozonys Cannibal (+45) and I couldn't even do bar height. I always looped off the back every time I did a gap or hook.

I could have probably got used to it (other people seem able to) but frankley I didn't want to, it felt horrible to me, it didn't feel like I was riding a bike any more.

I very much doubt this Rockman will give any more advantage over current mod frames.

[Matthew62]

Whoa!

For starters, I thought the "" and "" would have done a fairly good job of implying humor - I realize this is not a bike suited to Mark, and my earlier comment makes that clear. Secondly; calm down!

If people get in to trials and only ride trials - what's the problem with that? Football is played on a field with posts and a ball, but people don't look down on them because they don't also play rugby. "I don't get why so many people get in to ball sports, to not want to ever pick the ball up in there hands, or have a scrum."

Other areas of cycling just don't interest some people, and that's fine.

I have a road bike with -25 BB, but that hasn't made me stop and think "Hang on, +80?! That's WAY higher than a bike that's designed for riding fast in straight lines and gentle corners! It must be horrible for jumping up and down walls!"

You have to understand that this bike isn't designed with riders like you in mind. The style of trials you ride (assuming you're a regular Inspired rider) is more closely related to street riding than competition trials. Of course they will have different geometries - they're for very different tasks. And since when did people competing NOT want the most suitable tool for the sport?

Finally - that mods don't roll is pure shit, to be honest. True - they don't roll as easy as others - but it's not as if you slow to a stop within 5 meters of not pedaling.

Bikes are practically designed. Yes - you might ride streety bikes for trials, the two mix rather well, but that doesn't make a "pure" trials geometry is a bad thing when it's used for what it's designed for.

Also, saying "This bike is for f**kers only! Anyone who is even slightly excited by it i think is a moron." makes you sound like a moron. Do you feel the same way about bike messengers in busy cities riding fixies? They can't coast anywhere! How moronic is that?

Edit: Thinking on it - I don't know any high BB riders that are aggressive towards a low BB. Never do you hear "Low BB?! Pah! That's a thing of that past and should be abolished!"

I don't need to calm down, i'm not angry. Swearing isn't always used aggressively, i'm using it to express the absurdity of this bike.

I get it's a purpose made bike so isn't going to be designed for rolling drops and straight line speed, but do you not think this is more than verging on the ridiculous? I didn't say Mods don't roll well, i said mods with cranks in the clouds won't.

I'm thinking along the lines of most people on here who ride for pleasure mainly, maybe the odd comp - where's the appeal in having something so specialist? (That we don't know is any good yet). Like you said the Inspired is a mix so is ideal for many riders as it's so versatile.

In terms of messengers...nope i don't feel like that as i live and work in Central London and commute by bike everyday. I know exactly why they do it, and it's fitting of a purpose to a certain point. Granted i think there is a massive element of it being in-fashion at the moment, but the couriers have their reasons.

I understand competition riders and what they're looking for even if it's not my thing, but this bike will be like riding a new born giraffe and i can only believe it's been made so it can be the bike with the highest BB, not because it has a useful, practical implementation.

I don't have any anger towards riders of high BB bikes, but i find it pathetic for a company that makes shit bikes, to make yet another with such a ridiculous design, that i feel are for intentions of one-up-man-ship as opposed to genuine, good design. It's like when after the iPad's success you saw a string of shitty tablets, that could be clipped in to make laptops, and featured all these stupid designs as they focused on giving something the iPad didn't have, as opposed to just concentrating on producing a good, thought-out tablet.

[0zzy]

how did you work out that rockman bikes are shit?

[JD™]

This thread makes me happy even less than tonight's £130 parking fine did.

Why are people always looking for technical, rather than ability, based increases in performance? I have my Marino, which is based around a geo I thought I might like. I probably ride it in a far more static manner than it deserves, but I ride it to MY limits every time I get on it. If you wanna buy a +200 bb frame then do so, but ride it as hard as YOU can in as varied ways as YOU can, otherwise whats the point?

Cease with the playground fighting shit.

Equally, stop wanking each other off.

In my opinion, this bike looks f**king retarded so I won't buy one. Some people will, and I promise not to chase them with knives and harsh words.

[Canardweb]

My bike is a high BB one (+80) and it's a stock. It's true that it's very different to ride than a lower BB bike. Also it's true you can't push as much as you would with a lower BB bike. But it's so nice to ride for static moves. I just love it. But I love all kind of bikes. It's just that I prefer a high BB but I can surely ride any bike... I have had a few and with different geos. They were all different but each had their strong point and weak point. So a trials bike is just a trials bike. Just ddo what you can do with it. I have had too much time not having fun anymore on my bike and training hard for comps. It didn't help. Now I am having fun again and it's awesome riding a bike.

So if the man who rides that Rockman proto likes it, good for him. We should all be happy of our bike and for each other riding than argueing stupidly about this BB topic.

[ogre]

how did you work out that rockman bikes are shit?

cause they don't last long enough to reflect the price... don't give me that there comp bullshit, i don't see any other disciplines having gear that doesn't last quite like it.

as for people bitching the design and geo, shut the f**k up, rockman can do what ever they want, if they want to make crazy geo frames, let them, i'm not an advocate of uber high BB, i rode lower than +35 for 3 years, it sounds so dumb when you all get riled when something new comes out, it's stupid, encourage new stuff cause to me at least there seems to be a lack of stuff comming out for trials, so any new shit is good in my mind.

[Canardweb]

cause they don't last long enough to reflect the price... don't give me that there comp bullshit, i don't see any other disciplines having gear that doesn't last quite like it.

as for people bitching the design and geo, shut the f**k up, rockman can do what ever they want, if they want to make crazy geo frames, let them, i'm not an advocate of uber high BB, i rode lower than +35 for 3 years, it sounds so dumb when you all get riled when something new comes out, it's stupid, encourage new stuff cause to me at least there seems to be a lack of stuff comming out for trials, so any new shit is good in my mind.

This!

[Matthew62]

Any new shit is good?

Really? You really think that? I'm all for change when necessary, but new by no means equals 'good'.

Change for the sake of change, and differeance for the sake of differance i think are poor ideas, as i explained. Concentrate on making something good and well thought out that has longevity.

Also as you put it: 'Rockman can do whatever they want'.... no, no they can't. They wish to be a commerically viable business. There not giving these frames away, so from them to continue as a company they have to shift stock. This means they have to please the consumer as they're the ones supporting the company.

Sure this bike will have some appeal to certain riders, but they're not concentrating on making good bikes, just throw-away gimmicks.

Look at Inspired. They're a fairly late comer to the game and have gained massive popularity for well designed bikers with the rider in mind at all times. I bought an Inspired in the first few months when they originally came out, and for some time Fourplays were pretty rare - most people hadn't heard of Inspired. Back then they just made 1 frame - nothing else. Look at them now, how do you think they've achieved this goal? Through bizarre hydro-forming, super-light throw-away bikes, rediculous geo? No, just making good bikes at honest prices in the hope of evolving the sport.

[Mark W]

there seems to be a lack of stuff comming out for trials

Really? Almost every company around has new stuff that's either just come out or is just coming out. Trialtech have some new stuff coming out imminently, Inspired have new stuff coming out imminently, Echo have just had a LOAD of new stuff come out, Koxx/Try-All have some new stuff coming out, I seem to remember Rockman have tweaked some of their stuff too, TNN have new pads coming out, Inpulse have got some new stuff, SpeedRace have a reasonable amount of new stuff too...

[chimpanzyyyy]

Also as you put it: 'Rockman can do whatever they want'.... no, no they can't. They wish to be a commerically viable business. There not giving these frames away, so from them to continue as a company they have to shift stock. This means they have to please the consumer as they're the ones supporting the company.

that's it

if this bike is as "shit" as you say it is

we will be aware of it pretty soon

and no one is gonna ride it, even comps riders

if it's good, then people will ride it

there's nothing wrong about that

and

I just can't stand people talking about how shit a bike is, without even try it

[Muel]

Think he means there's nothing new in terms of innovation. The bikes and parts available now seem to be pretty similar to the ones I was using 3 years ago, yet in the three year gap between 2001 and 2004, bikes changed from looking like a T-Bird to a Python.