Greetings Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Why can't manufacturers make both high and medium/low bb rise frames? It's ridiculous how trials geometry always goes into extremes. 6 years ago Echo made all their frames with a high bb (well, Czar, Zoo, Adamant and GU). Most people hated that so they stopped and all that remained on the market was a heap of low rise frames because that's all that the other brands were making at the time. Now suddenly it's going into the extremes again, Koxx is doing a +70 stock and it's becoming difficult to find a +30mm frame because everyone else has followed suit. I've been wanting to change my Zoo for something with a lower bb and shorter wheelbase and there isn't anything out there! Just the Cannibal V3 which (if Tarty's measurements are to be trusted and not Ozonys's) sounds good. I wonder when Mr. Koxx, Mr. Monty and Mr. Echo decide that actually high bb was a bad idea and only produce low bb frames, this time giving no choice to riders who want more rise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 You'd think, wouldn't you, that with there being street frames and super extreme comp frames, that there'd be a few frames that slot in there in the middle. I know! Save up and start your own brand of trials frames! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onzatrip Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 The Ashton is amazing dude try and grab one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualjoe Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I guess other recent changes in geometry have made the high bb feel better. I would be interested to know why the V3 geo on the Ozonys site is so different to Tartys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 There are still various places across Europe and some in Asia that still sell older Deng frames. But obviously the more 'popular' models sold out a lot faster. This time last year I remember that Trialmarkt.de still sold all models of 2008 GUs, 2007 ZOO!s, and the '07 Adamant A1, with various Echo 07-09 models too. Now it seems on the Echo page there's only really the 2009 Control and Pure (+30 and +25 respectivly): Click There is still a short '07 Pitbull (135mm vertical version) for sale super cheap (165 euros) and the '09 Piranha here: Pow This is only looking at the German store though, so I wouldn't be surprised if some other European shops still had some other older frames from Deng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endohopper Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Incidentally , killer delivery times and service from Trialmarkt too , if any further evidence were needed against senior members' Tarty bias . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Yeah but it's not about old frames being better because in my opinion they weren't. For one, we're finally getting 135mm spaced horizontal dropout frames which a few years ago seemed like something that was just way too complicated and almost impossible to implement (sarcasm). I have some old Deng frames in stock but despite the geometry being sound I'm not interested in them for those reasons, plus tyre clearance. The Ozonys seems bang on actually, I've emailed Tarty to ask about the geometry difference between their website and Ozonys. Edited July 8, 2011 by Greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 the Atomz Premier was one of the better mid bb bikes I recken, I liked mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I agree with you Greetings. I went the whole high bb the first time around, and have accidentally managed to do it again this time round. First time I had a the first version of the Czar, there were issues with the frame, such as limitations to what you could do with the frame as far as skills. Second time, the 2011 Echo Pure. I think there's a vast improvement to the first time round of high bb's. But it is a shame that there isn't a great variety of high and low bb rise frames at the same time, as well as long and short frames to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Incidentally , killer delivery times and service from Trialmarkt too , if any further evidence were needed against senior members' Tarty bias . Most Senior Members are from the UK, so most will have used us as we're a lot closer/easier for them to deal with, hence there being a 'bias'? Yeah but it's not about old frames being better because in my opinion they weren't. For one, we're finally getting 135mm spaced horizontal dropout frames which a few years ago seemed like something that was just way too complicated and almost impossible to implement (sarcasm). I have some old Deng frames in stock but despite the geometry being sound I'm not interested in them for those reasons, plus tyre clearance. The Ozonys seems bang on actually, I've emailed Tarty to ask about the geometry difference between their website and Ozonys. Adam and I both measured the Cannibal, that's what the one we measured came out as with Urban forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Because Simple, may only be cheap but I love mine. Think its supposed to be +35mm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I think the high bb thing could hurt riders in the long run, you can tell a rider who has only ever ridden modern high bb bikes as they seem incapable of pedalling or turning corners. It's no coincidence that riders considered to have the nicest style all started off riding short low bb frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robintrial Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) mail to caelifera if you want a geo that suits you, i'm not gonna lie they are ugly but the thing is they are heaven to ride on Edited July 8, 2011 by robintrial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 My first choice for a custom frame will always be a Triton Looking for something cheaper though, Ozonys sounds nice. Never owned a frame from a comp brand before apart from Montys. I think Ali C is absolutely right about the riding style. You just don't get the flow and smoothness of riders like Porter, Rowan, Grillet or Ali from the high bb crowd. One of the reasons I want to go back to low bb and short wb is actually the style, mine has gone completely to pot on the Zoo. Riding it feels like pushing a cow up a set of stairs. Great frame for street riding, no good for natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filo Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Inspired need to make the hex have wider brake mounts. I love the feel of the hex and would use on as a comp trials frame. Just need to be able to run wider rims for natty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Never really found High BB bikes to be a problem really, although I do see where you are coming from. I think its really important to get the right bar and stem combo to compensate for the rise. I've just come from a +50 or +55 Python onto a +70 Ice 2, and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Using the majority of different styled stocks i found low bb and short worked best for me. Control short at 1065 and 20 or whatever it was alright. But high bb is/was super fun nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Whatever happened to the Switch? I'd forgotten about them until reading this. Must've been really bad. I was having a similar problem - though not with BB rise. Turns out I prefer a long mod with short chainstays, but I'm a basher. Then the Echo came out. In summary - don't worry... One'll come along soon (so long as people like you keep making their complaints public ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxRogers Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Not sure if this has been said yet but, why not get in contact with Marino? Perfect frame for you that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Whatever happened to the Switch? I'd forgotten about them until reading this. Must've been really bad. People did buy them, but then the Hex came out and WHAM! out classed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 People did buy them, but then the Hex came out and WHAM! out classed! Haha. Not biased by any chance, are you? I was dubious as soon as I heard Rockman were attempting a street frame. Hex's look a lot nicer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 My first choice for a custom frame will always be a Triton Looking for something cheaper though.... Bugger the cost, do it, you know you want to Still rather like mine, stock deema geometry - 1085/385/+35/72° Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Our little crew down here all ride with bbs under +35, 2 on old Echos, a Yaabaa 1499 (incidentally we all had one of these at one point, excellent frames), a Koxx Purple Sky and an Inspired. None of us get on with high bbs, and have the same problem as you. I liked my old Echo Control 2009, until it snapped. This Purple Sky would be perfect if the tyre clearance allowed the use of a Rain King / Der Kaiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 i am certainly a convert from high bb frames, however I have gone completely the opposite (long / high bb to short / low bb) and I have never been happier. I have NEVER had the basic "style" that ali is talking about, and unfortunately i think my TGS style shows in my riding on the inspired. however it is a little bad that all the companies are doing this high bb thing, with no real alternatives for those who want a long, low bb bike. i must admit though - for competition / tgs type trials, a high bb bike works better. IMHO. i see where ali is coming from and it annoys me that I dont have the style. One day. ONE DAY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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