New Toy!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Ok, so I'm blaming my fiance's brother for this but having messed around on a singlespeed steel hardtail for the past few months I'm going to give full bounce a try. Commencal Meta 5.5.2 fresh from eBay. Will get some pictures in the daylight when I get the chance.

[haydon_peter]

Excellent choice Dave, we have to organise a ride soon!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

What's the best (most bargainous) solution for a chain device? Reckon I'll lose the granny ring, shifter and front mech like I did on the singlespeed but I'll need something to keep things together... Tic, I'm looking at you!

[ogre]

What's the best (most bargainous) solution for a chain device? Reckon I'll lose the granny ring, shifter and front mech like I did on the singlespeed but I'll need something to keep things together... Tic, I'm looking at you!

bargains....

[haydon_peter]

+1 for the Superstar Chain Guides.

I fitted a Superstar Plasma to my Commencal, it needed some modification with an angle grinder but the mod does not take long.

Sadly the Plasma guides were on offer at £35 until very recently, now they are £50, still a bargain though unless you can find an E13 or similar second hand for a good price.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Cool, cheers for that- will see what I can get hold of.

[trialsmax04]

Lovely bike. Random question, but how do you find aggressive riding with spd's?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Random question, but how do you find aggressive riding with spd's?

Not a problem to be honest. They make a big difference for normal riding and I've never had an issue during more 'spirited' riding. I have mine set reasonably slack for easy release but can't complain.

[trialsmax04]

Sweet. Sorry for the random question. I just love the efficiency of spd's but the shoes I have where given to me and are too tight. If I'm stood up for any length of time they killy feet. Going to try some 661 filters or shimano am66s then if I still don't get on with them I can use them on flats.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Yeah I'm using Shimano MP66's and get on fine with them .

[trialsmax04]

Reccomend ordering a size up? I have silly wide feet :$

[Matthew62]

How does the Commencal Meta ride for what the MBUK type journo's would call 'All Mountain" riding?

I'd like a new full-sus frame soonish and the top contenders are this, the orange5 and the lapierre however i'm conscious you get a lot more change for a Commencal so am very interested as to how it rides.

How flexy is the rear end? Have you noticed this at all?

Cheers.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Reccomend ordering a size up? I have silly wide feet :$

Tough call... Sizing is fairly standard from what I can tell. I'm usually a size 10/45 and that worked out fine for my average plates. They don't seem to be overly narrow or wide fitting.

How does the Commencal Meta ride for what the MBUK type journo's would call 'All Mountain" riding?

I'd like a new full-sus frame soonish and the top contenders are this, the orange5 and the lapierre however i'm conscious you get a lot more change for a Commencal so am very interested as to how it rides.

How flexy is the rear end? Have you noticed this at all?

Cheers.

From my limited use I've been very impressed with it- seems nice and smooth with not much notable flex. Tic is far better placed to comment though as he's had his for ages now and used it in the Alps etc.

[Tomm]

I've ridden a Meta 5.5 for 4 years now. I had an 07 one which cracked and was replaced on warranty after 18months ish. As a replacement, I got an identical-feeling 2009 model which has recently snapped (and had cracks in other places) with no warranty left.

I liked the bike. I would hesitate to recommend of course, because of the breakages, but it rode really nicely. I guess time will tell whether the 2010/2011 frames are strong enough. It's incredibly plush, the rear end is very active - far more than on an Orange and a bit more than my mate's Lapierre. The back wheel just tracks the ground perfectly when climbing, most noticeable on really technical climbs - you basically can't lose grip, and I'd say it's almost perfect for people like me who want to "clean" technical climbs. The flip-side is that it does bob a small amount on smooth climbs. Lockout would probably sort this out, my Fox Float R doesn't have such luxuries... Going down it feels nice although rather skittery at times on rough descents, more so than similar-weight bikes I've tried. I think this is a result of the rear-end flex, but I can't really be sure. Mine's got 67 degree head angle I think, which is good for smashing down pretty much anything.

Criticisms: I think the seat angle on both mine was too slack - on the steepest of climbs it seems impossible to get enough weight over the front. Despite feeling quite skittery as I've described, the frame weight is pretty substantial (10lbs ish) which translates to a 30lbs+ bike unless you're careful with the rest of the spec.

As for the Orange vs the Lapierre vs Commencal debate, I don't really know. If you're on any sort of budget, avoid the Orange. They're nicely-finished bikes but IMHO not worth the premium price they command, and they're not really clever enough for me ("yesterday's products at tomorrows's prices"). My friend who has a Lapierre, he loves it. I haven't spent a lot of time riding it, but first impressions are good. I don't think I'd ever buy one, for some reason, they don't do it for me and I can't put my finger on why! I will say that the Lapierre feels a lot more upright than the meta - it's steeper and probably better for climbing but requires a bit more rider input on the downs. Whether that's a good thing is up to you!

More because I fancy a change rather than a criticism of the Meta, I don't think my replacement bike will be another Commencal (even though they've offered me a faily reasonable crash-replacement). I'm looking at Specialized and Giant full bikes (Giants in particular seem very good value, and they ride well), and lusting over a Santa Cruz Blur LT.

[trialsmax04]

Looked at the new Mondraker's Tomm? Seam very well kitted out bikes and frames at the moment.

[Matthew62]

I've ridden a Meta 5.5 for 4 years now. I had an 07 one which cracked and was replaced on warranty after 18months ish. As a replacement, I got an identical-feeling 2009 model which has recently snapped (and had cracks in other places) with no warranty left.

I liked the bike. I would hesitate to recommend of course, because of the breakages, but it rode really nicely. I guess time will tell whether the 2010/2011 frames are strong enough. It's incredibly plush, the rear end is very active - far more than on an Orange and a bit more than my mate's Lapierre. The back wheel just tracks the ground perfectly when climbing, most noticeable on really technical climbs - you basically can't lose grip, and I'd say it's almost perfect for people like me who want to "clean" technical climbs. The flip-side is that it does bob a small amount on smooth climbs. Lockout would probably sort this out, my Fox Float R doesn't have such luxuries... Going down it feels nice although rather skittery at times on rough descents, more so than similar-weight bikes I've tried. I think this is a result of the rear-end flex, but I can't really be sure. Mine's got 67 degree head angle I think, which is good for smashing down pretty much anything.

Criticisms: I think the seat angle on both mine was too slack - on the steepest of climbs it seems impossible to get enough weight over the front. Despite feeling quite skittery as I've described, the frame weight is pretty substantial (10lbs ish) which translates to a 30lbs+ bike unless you're careful with the rest of the spec.

As for the Orange vs the Lapierre vs Commencal debate, I don't really know. If you're on any sort of budget, avoid the Orange. They're nicely-finished bikes but IMHO not worth the premium price they command, and they're not really clever enough for me ("yesterday's products at tomorrows's prices"). My friend who has a Lapierre, he loves it. I haven't spent a lot of time riding it, but first impressions are good. I don't think I'd ever buy one, for some reason, they don't do it for me and I can't put my finger on why! I will say that the Lapierre feels a lot more upright than the meta - it's steeper and probably better for climbing but requires a bit more rider input on the downs. Whether that's a good thing is up to you!

More because I fancy a change rather than a criticism of the Meta, I don't think my replacement bike will be another Commencal (even though they've offered me a faily reasonable crash-replacement). I'm looking at Specialized and Giant full bikes (Giants in particular seem very good value, and they ride well), and lusting over a Santa Cruz Blur LT.

Thank you for making my decision that much harder. Thanks for your opinions, they are very helpful.

I must admit from reading your comments about the Commencal, everything you said very much put me off. I have a very rudimentary Kona Coiler at the moment and while it's about as sophisticated as Lambrini it is great fun downhill and very confidence inspiring and i don't want to loose too much of this for a bike that is nicer uphill only, as whether on a lightweight hardtail or full-susser i never enjoy the up's all that much. I'm also surprised to hear about the weight as my Kona is under mid 30's and i'm conscious about 99% of that weight is the frame alone.

From a heart based decision only the Orange is the one that excites me the most, but again it's a good amount more money for what i am unsure of is that much more bike. It would also cost additional money to get a suitable headset for my 1 1/8 forks and by the time you've done all that i could have bought a rival frame, decent dropper seat post and still have a few hundred quid left over.

I had completely neglected to think of Santa Cruz until a few moments ago so shall look in to them.

I've now heard a few comments of Lapierres cracking, Commencals cracking, and a few fives also so it does make for a difficult decision as that's one worry i don't have with my current set-up.

Is it really that difficult to find a strong, reliable, fun trail bike that's build-able in to a bike under 30lbs? It seems very much so.

Thanks again.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Is it really that difficult to find a strong, reliable, fun trail bike that's build-able in to a bike under 30lbs? It seems very much so.

What about a BMC Trailfox? That was my other option but ended up going with the Commencal for no better reason than it looks cooler imo!

[Matthew62]

I'll admit, i've never really heard of them. I shall have a look!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I'll admit, i've never really heard of them. I shall have a look!

Me either until I came across them on a forum and they seem to get very good write ups. I was bidding on a BMC TF02 before I got the Meta and have to say there are some nice design features on them. Quality Swiss engineering!

[Matthew62]

Did you buy your Commencal complete then?

I'm only looking at getting a frame as all my parts i have are pretty good and new, but i've never really considered buying second hand and am now wondering if it's a sensible idea?

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the Commencal cost you?

Thanks

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Did you buy your Commencal complete then?

I'm only looking at getting a frame as all my parts i have are pretty good and new, but i've never really considered buying second hand and am now wondering if it's a sensible idea?

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the Commencal cost you?

Yeah, I was originally looking for a frame but all the bits on my previous bike (fairly cheaply built steel singlespeed hardtail) weren't really suitable for a full sus AM build. The Commencal was bought new by the seller and has hardly been used from the looks of it. All pretty good spec components so I bit the bullet and went for it. Cost me £850 on eBay and I think it was in the region of £2k new (seller paid ~£1600 in an end of year sale).

[Tomm]

Looked at the new Mondraker's Tomm? Seam very well kitted out bikes and frames at the moment.

My mate's got a Foxy FR and it seemed really nice when I had a look at it. Felt quite similar to the Lapierre, at least geometry-wise, although I've not ridden either of them for any great length of time. However, the guy who owns it managed to snap the mech hanger after 1-2 months. He's been without a bike for 3 months because it's currently impossible to get a replacement hanger for the Foxy - Anywhere in the UK! He tried loads of dealers, even the distributor couldn't get hold of them. Ridiculous. In the end he's converted his axle so he can run an old (obsolete) Saint mech which bolts straight onto the axle.

So yeah, although they look nice, for that reason I wouldn't bother.

I must admit from reading your comments about the Commencal, everything you said very much put me off. I have a very rudimentary Kona Coiler at the moment and while it's about as sophisticated as Lambrini it is great fun downhill and very confidence inspiring and i don't want to loose too much of this for a bike that is nicer uphill only, as whether on a lightweight hardtail or full-susser i never enjoy the up's all that much. I'm also surprised to hear about the weight as my Kona is under mid 30's and i'm conscious about 99% of that weight is the frame alone.

I used to have a 2005 (?) Kona Stinky which is basically the same as what a coiler is now (5.5 - 6" travel coil sprung faux bar design). I rode that in the Alps (loved it) and for XC (hated it). It's basically a completely different beast to the commencal. I think you have to make a distinction between absolute weight and what a bike feels like to ride. The meta is lively/spritely, loves going up and down whereas the Kona was dull, lifeless and energy-sapping on climbs. So even if you could build a coiler up to weigh less than a meta (and you probably can, the frame weight difference is only going to be 2-3lbs at a guess), it would still be a pain in the ass to ride XC.

My personal opinion here: I don't think you buy a "trail" bike (140mm ish travel full sus, air shock) because you like riding downhill. If you want a bike you can pedal slowly up a fireroad to the top of the next descent, there are better options around the 160mm mark (Giant Reign X, Specialized Enduro, Lapierre Froggy, Meta 666 etc). But for me, those bikes sort of miss the point of mountain biking. Ride up, ride along, ride down, enjoying each bit. All day epics out in the wild. Quick blast around your favourite local trails. 140mm just seem to hit a sweet spot for me, not too cumbersome on gentler rides, and still 'enough' on big stuff. I know that's very much an opinion though, and it'll depend on what the riding is like near you. Having said all that, I own a DH bike as well - If I didn't, I might feel differently. If I wanted one bike for everything (All day rides, the occasional uplift day and an Alps holiday), I'd probably be looking at one of those bikes I mentioned, but I'd have to accept that there's a trade-off.

I have to add though - I was exactly like you before I discovered how challenging it was to try and "clean" technical climbs. That changed with the Commencal. It begs you ride up stuff you never thought was do-able. I know you won't believe me, but sometimes I prefer the feeling of nailing a hard climb to smashing down a difficult descent!

Is it really that difficult to find a strong, reliable, fun trail bike that's build-able in to a bike under 30lbs? It seems very much so.

Nope. You just have to accept the mantra "Strong, Light, Cheap. Pick two". The Commencals are reputably bad for breakages, but there are always going to be some frames snapped after 2-3 years from all manufacturers. Every manufacturer does one, there are no lemons from the big guys.

Specialized Stumpjumper / Pitch

Lapierre Zesty/Spicy

Giant Trance /Trance X / Reign

Santa Cruz Butcher/Blur

Commencal 5.5

Orange Five

GT iDrive

Marin quad-whatever

Kona Coil-Air

Intense 5.5

Mondraker Foxy

Transition Covert

Writing that list has reminded me: Specialized Pitch. Get one - it's perfect for you. As long as you ditch the Radium shock on the cheaper version (you can try a coil shock if you're that way inclined), they feel really nice and they're a complete bargain. You can get a used frame for £300 easily (Get a Pitch 'Pro' for a decent shock). It's basically an Enduro from 2-3 years ago.

[Matthew62]

Thank you very much for your reply, and for taking the time, your opinions are very much appreciated.

I should have added that my kona is good for downhill only. Mostly I despise it as it is horrible going up, awful in the flat, saggy, floppy and fairly bad for anything other than hammering which isn't what I want. What I should have said is that I'm after a trail/AM bike that I'm not going to be overly concerned about snapping in two but is a much more capable all round bike. I know there will always be compromises, I'd just like to make sure i make the right ones.

Again what i should have further explained I'd although i don't get excited for a climb I do enjoy the satisfaction of getting up something which seems impossible. After all, it's not that dissimilar to what were trying to achieve when riding trials. I'm after something that is (as you put it perfectly) lively and exciting to ride in all aspects, as opposed to something a bit more single minded like I currently have. The commencal is certainly tempting due to the price and from what you've said in your last post it sounds promising.

I'm conscious it's a very common, boring issue I have but it's great to get real world advice with something like this so i do appreciate it. My needs and wants are very simple really. More often than not it's traditional trail riding I do (Cannock chase/afan forest etc) so if I'm honest I'd want a bike that suited this but it would be nice if it was capable of some harder riding without too much worry of damage.

I don't know how relevant it is but I'd be running fox talas forks on the front with the ability to change travel from 160mm to 120mm which steepens the head angle a fair bit making a bike a it nicer up the hills. It's amazing how much it can change the kona all things considered.

Sorry for my whining and thanks again.

P.S.. The pitch makes me feel sick, i know that's pathetic, but still...

[trialsmax04]

Matthew, Im not sure if this is of any interest to you, but my best mate is selling his Specialized Enduro frame. Its an 06 and comes with a 5th element shock. Last time I checked he was after £250 for it?

[haydon_peter]

What Tomm has said is basically spot on.

I wouldn't touch a 2009 Commencal with a barge pole, LOADS of 2009 frames across the range cracked. I believe that in 2010 Commencal changed their frame suppliers and the 2010 and 2011 frames are meant to be much better. There are less stories of the newer frames failing however like Tomm says all companies will experience frame failures. Either way do not even consider a 2009 Commencal.

The back end on my Meta is a little flexy side to side but apparently running a bolt through or maxle on the rear helps massively. Saying that I have not had any major complaints with the flex and in some situations it makes the bike a little bit more forgiving. I have used the bike at various trails centres around the UK and also taken it out to Les Arcs in the French Alps for a week and it coped amazingly well! I felt out of my depth on the DH track but for all the fast fast technical trails on offer in Les Arcs the bike was perfect. Over the last year I have also been using the Meta on some fairly large jumps at a 'Freeride' club I am an active member of, it's not the ideal bike but certainly feels nice over the jumps. Recently I have also been using the bike on weekly XC rides organised by a local cycling club. I am not exactly getting left behind by faster XC whippets on much lighter hard tails, yes they kill me on some of the sections but when it comes to the downs I am right up there at the front with a big grin on my face.

The Meta is a trail bike, it climbs well and it goes down hills very nicely too. I got mine for my first trip to the Alps and soon found myself never riding my hardtail then selling it because it was just so versatile and fun. When I first made the move to full suspension I was very worried about how a full suspension bike suspension bike would climb and feel for general XC but the linkage systems on frames now are really good! I will admit that I do occasionally lock out my forks and use the pro pedal on the rear shock, when I have to use roads I lock out everything and on some off road climbs I use the pro pedal on the rear but leave the front forks active. If the climbs are rooty, rocky or technical I just leave the front and rear suspension unlocked and let it do its job.

I now have a Giant Glory for DH duties but I still love my Meta 5 for everything else, it's a 2008 model which I recently stripped down and rebuilt so it's now riding sweet again. Latest photos of my bike.