Define 'Trials Rider'

[dave33]

Yeah,i rode a couple,was even in mbuk in the first hop idol competition,to be honest,i wasn't all that good,so i always tried my hardest. You said you always put maximum effort in on sidehops,pushing your limits and trying to clear an obstacle? Pardon me but is that not the same thing. I hope you do help riders in the comp scene,but with this attitude you'd be a virus killing peoples interest as,franky,its snobbery, and only snobs like snobs,and that's the last thing the sport needs!

What infront of paying customers- the public ??

I can ride all the rig with my eyes closed so to me that says m not using 100% effort & skills

[kaybs41282]

For goodness sake is this argument still running, if you all haven't concluded after 11 pages then I don't suppose you ever will. Agree to disagree???

[Yorkshire Dale]

Where's the love guys? anyone fancy a bum? Iv been riding trials for 12 years and iv competed in the past and enjoyed it. never got me anywhere but i made lots of friends through it. i ride trials but dont class myself as a trials rider because its not a full time job. im a technician really as for ali c yea he is paid to ride trials so yea he is a trials rider as is danny mac its still trials even if there is spins and tricks in his riding and everyone on this forum im sure rides trials. i see both side of the story here and i agree with points form both but as for the fighting talk is all rubbish i am not a trials rider, i ride trials and love doing it, Peace out homies,

Dale xxxxx

Edited April 14, 2011 by Yorkshire Dale

[Luke Dunstan]

Can't we all just agree on one thing? wearing Lycra is WRONG!!!

[kaybs41282]

Where's the love guys? anyone fancy a bum? Iv been riding trials for 12 years and iv competed in the past and enjoyed it. never got me anywhere but i made lots of friends through it. i ride trials but dont class myself as a trials rider because its not a full time job. im a technician really as for ali c yea he is paid to ride trials so yea he is a trials rider as is danny mac its still trials even if there is spins and tricks in his riding and everyone on this forum im sure rides trials. i see both side of the story here and i agree with points form both but as for the fighting talk is all rubbish i am not a trials rider, i ride trials and love doing it, Peace out homies,

Dale xxxxx

I suppose on that basis we are all "cyclists" lol

[murph82]

What infront of paying customers- the public ??

I can ride all the rig with my eyes closed so to me that says m not using 100% effort & skills

I dont know about paying,but they were sort of promo days for local shops and local cycling events. Nothing of a massive scale.

If the rig is that easy change it then? Make your gaps bigger,put some extra pallets in somewhere,if you could ride a spot so easy you'd go elsewhere or look for different lines? Demo's are a little different in the sense that where you would session a line or obstacle and it wouldn't matter if you mess it up people dont want to stand and watch someone fall off their bike time and again so there is an element of staying in your limitations so you dont look a prat. However, work on it, set it up somewhere and change stuff round with pallets or moving gaps further apart, its no different to practicing for a competition,you practice to improve if your as dedicated in either discipline so you feel more equipped to cope with the given route at a comp or to be able to make that bigger gap or whatever on your rig. street or natural is trials,its you v's the thing in front of you,wether you tap up and roll down or bunnyhop then 180 off. Demo's i think aren't that different to comps, its the mindset. The other point i think i'm seeing is about wether people are a trials rider down to if they get paid or not. Well everyone is a trials rider, its if they are professional or not. This thread has obviously been good for a discussion but has kind of highlighted that there are some very strange and elitist attitudes in a sport where its really not needed or welcome as its something that seems to be on the verge of acceptance in the masses. More people can only make it better!?!

[dave33]

I dont know about paying,but they were sort of promo days for local shops and local cycling events. Nothing of a massive scale.

If the rig is that easy change it then? Make your gaps bigger,put some extra pallets in somewhere,if you could ride a spot so easy you'd go elsewhere or look for different lines? Demo's are a little different in the sense that where you would session a line or obstacle and it wouldn't matter if you mess it up people dont want to stand and watch someone fall off their bike time and again so there is an element of staying in your limitations so you dont look a prat. However, work on it, set it up somewhere and change stuff round with pallets or moving gaps further apart, its no different to practicing for a competition,you practice to improve if your as dedicated in either discipline so you feel more equipped to cope with the given route at a comp or to be able to make that bigger gap or whatever on your rig. street or natural is trials,its you v's the thing in front of you,wether you tap up and roll down or bunnyhop then 180 off. Demo's i think aren't that different to comps, its the mindset. The other point i think i'm seeing is about wether people are a trials rider down to if they get paid or not. Well everyone is a trials rider, its if they are professional or not. This thread has obviously been good for a discussion but has kind of highlighted that there are some very strange and elitist attitudes in a sport where its really not needed or welcome as its something that seems to be on the verge of acceptance in the masses. More people can only make it better!?!

Well you basically answered your own question!!

As for demos How professional would using pallets look?

The whole reason for a demo is to entertain people, not show case the ability, as all of the moves are mind blowing for the crowd.

Why risk failing a 1o foot gap when a 8 foot gaps plenty big enough to blow there minds?

I have no idea what level of rider you are but I'm pretty sure that you would think twice about some of the moves!

At the end of the day it's a professional format

[Ali C]

I don't think it's that bad a thing to fall off when in demos. From my experience when you fall when trying something hard, people realise that the stuff you are trying isn't a walk in the park and you are actually trying some pretty difficult and dangerous stuff. The commentator can then get the crowd really behind the rider wanting him/her to execute the move and when the rider does land it, the crowd tend to go nuts.

If the demo is too easy to ride, it can show, no-one wants to see people do stuff they is easy for them, the crowd want crashes, they want the danger element.

[Andeee]

Could a moderator/admin please close this topic it has been gone on far too long!

[Ali C]

before it closes can you answer my questions a few pages back?

[bikeperson45]

Could a moderator/admin please close this topic it has been gone on far too long!

You understand you don't have to read it, don't you?

And with the bails in demo thing, when I was asked to do a few 'tricks' once a guy came up to me at the end and thought it made it good that I didn't get one thing the first time because it built anticipation about whether or not I was going to make it and if I would hurt myself do it. I think it's much more impressive watching someone struggle to do something amazing but do it then someone doing a bunch of simply good stuff.

[dave33]

I don't think it's that bad a thing to fall off when in demos. From my experience when you fall when trying something hard, people realise that the stuff you are trying isn't a walk in the park and you are actually trying some pretty difficult and dangerous stuff. The commentator can then get the crowd really behind the rider wanting him/her to execute the move and when the rider does land it, the crowd tend to go nuts.

If the demo is too easy to ride, it can show, no-one wants to see people do stuff they is easy for them, the crowd want crashes, they want the danger element.

Yea I know what your saying Ali!

That's where the side hop comp comes in! When it gets high and you fail then the crowd really get behind you! But what if after 10 goes you still dont make it ?? They are gonna get disappointed ! So I think yea knock it off but always make sure you clear it!

Also when you 12 feet up failing a gap and falling is risking more than your pride!!

Am I ment to answer your questions ?

[Andeee]

before it closes can you answer my questions a few pages back?

To answer your question... This is my oppinion of what i think about trials now.

Ok everything has changes etc... But trials is not the same from back in 2003 when i started the days when parts n componentry were safe as houses. 24"'s were possibly not as popular since edd tongue/danny holryod started riding them. When people see a lot of riders who ride 24's like danny mac n all other inspired riders... there riding is good and they have a nice style to it dont get me wrong but a lot of the public out there are getting the idea that our sport is bmx which it isnt and since then people have started turning there riding style into a hardtail street/bmx. Now to set a challenge for a lot of the big riders out there i think it would be quite interesting to see someone like neil tunnicliffe or damon watson to do a vid like danny macs and danny mac to do a full on TGS vid. Basically what my point is people are evolving the sport slowly to a bmx style ok i think its cool to try new things and a different style. but trials aint the same :/

Thanks Andy

[Matthew62]

I'd personally prefer if outsiders viewed our sport in the light that Danny paints it in rather than the likes of Damon Watson, or Euro Comp riders, but that's just my preference.

I can associate with Danny's riding a lot more and for me there is much more enjoyment to be found in it.

For me there are 2 main incidents which sum up some of your questions Andeee.

1. My girlfriend. She knows i ride trials but has no real affinity for it. She actively enjoys watching Danny's videos, i mean genuinely enjoys them but can't stand the majority of other vid's i show her. I've asked her why that although i agree with her 100& (but i'm a biased opinion as i'm a trials rider) she as someone with little knowledge of the sport can enjoy watching Way Back Home but can't stand other vid's (i got her to outline her thoughts whilst watching some other vids)?

She said she liked Danny's flow, the fact he never stops moving and that everything is fluid. Watching other vids she has shouted at the rider usually 1 of 2 comments, either "BORING" or "hurry up, why does he keep just hopping on the spot". I think that's why outsiders enjoy that type of riding because it has momentum.

As someone who has ridden trials for many years and has been around before trials frames or components existed i agree with her totally. More and more trials bores the f**k out of me. I dislike over 90% of what i see - it's just beyond dull. However whenever i watch a video like Danny's it really hits something inside me. It just feels "right", it epitomise's why i ride and why i love bikes and it maintains my enthusiasm for the sport. For me, this style of riding is the what i'd like to peruse and promote.

2. The Danny Mac do TGS, Damon etc do street. What's the point? On the big Jack Meek London ride we saw (again to bum him just a little further) Danny hop around those walls on Southbank, then jump on Kenny's Monty and do a big sidehop. Kenny took Danny's Inspired and couldn't get up the wall, however now Kenny has released a 24" vid showing he's quite capable at this style of riding....my point - if you're a good rider, you're a good rider, no need to prove anything, just ride however you deem best.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Matthew62

[dave33]

I'd personally prefer if outsiders viewed our sport in the light that Danny paints it in rather than the likes of Damon Watson, or Euro Comp riders, but that's just my preference.

I can associate with Danny's riding a lot more and for me there is much more enjoyment to be found in it.

For me there are 2 main incidents which sum up some of your questions Andeee.

1. My girlfriend. She knows i ride trials but has no real affinity for it. She actively enjoys watching Danny's videos, i mean genuinely enjoys them but can't stand the majority of other vid's i show her. I've asked her why that although i agree with her 100& (but i'm a biased opinion as i'm a trials rider) she as someone with little knowledge of the sport can enjoy watching Way Back Home but can't stand other vid's (i got her to outline her thoughts whilst watching some other vids)?

She said she liked Danny's flow, the fact he never stops moving and that everything is fluid. Watching other vids she has shouted at the rider usually 1 of 2 comments, either "BORING" or "hurry up, why does he keep just hopping on the spot". I think that's why outsiders enjoy that type of riding because it has momentum.

As someone who has ridden trials for many years and has been around before trials frames or components existed i agree with her totally. More and more trials bores the f**k out of me. I dislike over 90% of what i see - it's just beyond dull. However whenever i watch a video like Danny's it really hits something inside me. It just feels "right", it epitomise's why i ride and why i love bikes and it maintains my enthusiasm for the sport. For me, this style of riding is the what i'd like to peruse and promote.

2. The Danny Mac do TGS, Damon etc do street. What's the point? On the big Jack Meek London ride we saw (again to bum him just a little further) Danny hop around those walls on Southbank, then jump on Kenny's Monty and do a big sidehop. Kenny took Danny's Inspired and couldn't get up the wall, however now Kenny has released a 24" vid showing he's quite capable at this style of riding....my point - if you're a good rider, you're a good rider, no need to prove anything, just ride however you deem best.

I gotta say that's narrow minded, if you love that type of ridding- awaome

If that's what you wanna and promote then that's awaome to, I don't have. Problem with that!!

But you can't just say any other type is shot and boring!!

Also to me any move I might wanna spend time learning can only to improve my ridding, if it looks good then kool!

Take gillies costlier again and how he goes up to front!! Looks amazing to me but isn't the only reason it looks the way it does is that is the best tech? He's evolved all his moved for best gains not looks

[Matthew62]

How on earth is my point of view narrow minded

It's based on riding bikes of all kinds (especially trials bikes) for well over a decade. Riding across all different types of terrains on different bikes, in different parts of the world with very different people. After all that experience i have come to the conclusion that current day competition type riding is of no interest to me - I, that's ME find it very boring, dull and unsasifying.

If it wasn't clear that's what i was saying in my previous post. I don't do a move purely for it's visual appeal - that's a stupid thing to say. I ride what appeals to me/leaves me with a sense of fun and enjoyment. Hopping around endlessly on flat tyres, never using any momentum just don't cut it for me. That is a far from narrow minded opinion - it is based on my personal experiences.

I can't promote something i don't care about so naturally the things i do promote and advertise to others is the style of riding i enjoy most - that's completely normal.

Of course learning moves helps out your riding - it's the reason everyone here rides trials. Just dependant on the individual different moves have different visual appeal.

To me a manual to 180 looks beautiful, whereas a frenchie looks a bit silly (again to me). How a move looks shouldn't be considered unimportant. Technical merit, enjoyment and looks all play a part in how we ride. I don't think you should focus on just one aspect but they are all equally important. Discrediting the visual effect of riding is silly as it's not just a completely functional process - there's no harm in introducing style to something to improve it.

For example if i do a rolling line and either clip a wheel/have to put in another pedal stroke/hang the back up etc and i feel it wasn't good enough it's down to the fact that it wasn;t as smooth as it could be and it didn't look as good as i wanted it to do. They go hand in hand.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Matthew62

[dave33]

How on earth is my point of view narrow minded

It's based on riding bikes of all kinds (especially trials bikes) for well over a decade. Riding across all different types of terrains on different bikes, in different parts of the world with very different people. After all that experience i have come to the conclusion that current day competition type riding is of no interest to me - I, that's ME find it very boring, dull and unsasifying.

If it wasn't clear that's what i was saying in my previous post. I don't do a move for it's visual appeal - that's a stupid thing to say. I ride what appeals to me/leaves me with a sense of fun and enjoyment. Hopping around endlessly on flat tyres, never using any momentum just don't cut it for me. That is a far from narrow minded opinion - it is based on my personal experiences.

I can't promote something i don't care about so naturally the things i do promote and advertise to others is the style of riding i enjoy most - that's completely normal.

Of course learning moves helps out your riding - it's the reason everyone here rides trials. Just dependant on the individual different moves have different visual appeal.

To me a manual to 180 looks beautiful, whereas a frenchie looks a bit silly (again to me). Many others will have the opposite opinion but that is a whole other matter.

It seemed to me that your promoting what you like by putting down what you don't like!

Yes I also ride for the same feeling as you!

I basically look at some thing and set my self the challenge to get up and over it, and when I finally do it then I'm happy.

Just the same as you trying a manual or what ever! Isn't the end goal the same ?

[Matthew62]

I promote what i like by putting down what i don't?

How?

I don't get the appeal of TGS (or HGS) and i can say why i don't - but i don't paint it in a negative light in order to promote a different style of riding. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion?

You haven't been shy with your (slightly rash) opinions in this thread so i don't see how you can call someone out of expressing there's in an arguably more eloquent manner.

"Isn't the end goal the same ?"

Yes. It most definetly is. It's called Trials and every mother f**ker here rides it.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Matthew62

[dave33]

I promote what i like by putting down what i don't?

How?

I don't get the appeal of TGS (or HGS) and i can say why i don't - but i don't paint it in a negative light in order to promote a different style of riding. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion?

You haven't been shy with your (slightly rash) opinions in this thread so i don't see how you can call someone out of expressing there's in an arguably more eloquent manner.

"Isn't the end goal the same ?"

Yes. It most definetly is. It's called Trials and every mother f**ker here rides it.

Using words like boring, beond dull and you dislike over 90 %

[Matthew62]

Are words to express how i feel personally - how do they reflect on my promoting of the sport?

Do you think when i talk to the endless people who stop me in the street and say "hey, what is that you're doing" that i go....

"well i can tell you what i'm not doing - none of that shit seatless crap, you know with the lycra and the holes, you don't wanna do that kid".

I say... "It's called Trials", they say "Oh" i say (this is often to tourists/foreigners etc) "have you heard of Danny Macaskill" they say "oh yeah the guy who flips off the tree" i go "yeah - that's it - that's what i do just without 1% of the ability".

You must realise there is a difference between me disliking a type of riding and me actively going out to try to put others off it?

[Luke Rainbird]

These are a couple of the best posts I've seen in a very long time, especially in this thread

"Isn't the end goal the same ?"

Yes. It most definetly is. It's called Trials and every mother f**ker here rides it.

Now if we'd started with that, would it have panned out differently?

Nicely done dude

Dave; Matt said that he personally finds watching certain styles boring to watch, as does his girlfriend. Very different from saying explicitly that those styles are boring and worth less than what he finds appealing.

I agree, as does my better half too

[dave33]

These are a couple of the best posts I've seen in a very long time, especially in this thread

Now if we'd started with that, would it have panned out differently?

Nicely done dude

I was comparing my reason I enjoy riding to his!

Yes excellent posts!

[Matthew62]

So to bring this to a close.

We are all one big happy family called Trials Riders.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

[dave33]

Are words to express how i feel personally - how do they reflect on my promoting of the sport?

Do you think when i talk to the endless people who stop me in the street and say "hey, what is that you're doing" that i go....

"well i can tell you what i'm not doing - none of that shit seatless crap, you know with the lycra and the holes, you don't wanna do that kid".

I say... "It's called Trials", they say "Oh" i say (this is often to tourists/foreigners etc) "have you heard of Danny Macaskill" they say "oh yeah the guy who flips off the tree" i go "yeah - that's it - that's what i do just without 1% of the ability".

You must realise there is a difference between me disliking a type of riding and me actively going out to try to put others off it?

Yes fair point, same here if I get randoms asking if I'm doing the same as that guy off you tube I say yep pretty much the same, and the aim is to get up with out putting my foot down

Edited April 14, 2011 by dave33

[Matthew62]

Whether on the street or in a comp.......