monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I haven't used water bleed brakes but I cant imagine being better as oil when you think about it it should be better if the oil is thicker shouldnt it? :facepalm: Item 1) You haven't used and "wouldn't ever think of bleeding a brake with water", therefore your opinion on water bleeds is completely irrelevant (and, by the way, wrong!). Item 2) If you really think about it, oil being thicker (higher viscosity) will make it slower and harder to pull than a less viscous fluid like, say, water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 There's a reason hydraulic brakes are called hydraulic brakes, because they're supposed to have hydraulic fluid in them. If the are supposed to use water surely they would be called water brakes, think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 There's a reason hydraulic brakes are called hydraulic brakes, because they're supposed to have hydraulic fluid in them. If the are supposed to use water surely they would be called water brakes, think about it. Oh dear. Edit: Oh my, what have we here?... hy·drau·lic (h-drôlk) adj. 1. Of, involving, moved by, or operated by a fluid, especially water, under pressure. Think about it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan97 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 :facepalm: Item 1) You haven't used and "wouldn't ever think of bleeding a brake with water", therefore your opinion on water bleeds is completely irrelevant (and, by the way, wrong!) Item 2) If you really think about it, oil being thicker (higher viscosity) will make it slower and harder to pull than a less viscous fluid like, say, water. for instance lets say you have a jetwash of water and a jetwash of oil the oil will hurt more because it is thicker and has more 'force', if you think about it it should be the same for when you pull in your brake. Its just a theory so dont be a douche about it just because im trying to state a fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Why don't tarty's reccomend water bleeds ? Because it's a stupid idea ? Yes. Why was proper hydraulic fluid invented ? Because it obviously works better than water. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt.price Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) magura will want to make as much money as possible. if they say use water they will lose money from the people still using royal blood. i've had water , anti-freeze , screen wash in my brakes (not all at once) and they're all nicer (and better) then oil, i've had a few sticky piston in the slaves and lever. but a bit of oil lube as sorted them out. i highly reccomend water. also. andrei burton told me once VIZ rims are shit for braking performance. edit: Why don't tarty's reccomend water bleeds ? i've read a guy from tartybikes opinion on water/anti freeze . he prefered it. (mark w i think . sorry if i'm wrong) Because it's a stupid idea ? Yes. no Why was proper hydraulic fluid invented ? because water might of been a stupid idea at first and in theory. but people had tried it they prefered it. Because i like men Edited April 5, 2011 by matt.price 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 for instance lets say you have a jetwash of water and a jetwash of oil the oil will hurt more because it is thicker and has more 'force', if you think about it it should be the same for when you pull in your brake. Its just a theory so dont be a douche about it just because im trying to state a fair point. But your point (particularly when considering the brakes) is entirely invalid, plus you have no experience of what you're arguing, yet you're still continuing to dig deeper. Regarding the oil vs. water jetwash scenario... I've heard of water jets being used to cut stupidly thick steel yet I've never come across an oil jet cutter. So yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualjoe Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Its a nice story but is irrelevant in a closed system like a magura. And brad, 1000's of people have been using water in their maguras for years mate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Why don't tarty's reccomend water bleeds ? Because it invalidates product warranties and they can't officially be seen to do that. Because it's a stupid idea ? Yes. Nope, far from it. Have you even tried a water bleed? If it's stupid why do so many people swear by it? Why was proper hydraulic fluid invented ? Due to the nature of heavy duty hydraulic machinery. Oil has a better capacity for dealing with heat and more importantly pressure. In a hydraulic rim brake neither of those are an issue. The only possible issues with water in a brake are a lack of lubrication (was never a problem running pure water for 7 or 8 years) and freezing (which has never been a problem for me). Because it obviously works better than water. So, again, why do so many people swear by water? because it obviously works better than oil. Oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan97 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) But your point (particularly when considering the brakes) is entirely invalid, plus you have no experience of what you're arguing, yet you're still continuing to dig deeper. Regarding the oil vs. water jetwash scenario... I've heard of water jets being used to cut stupidly thick steel yet I've never come across an oil jet cutter. So yeah... probably because it would be easier and you dont really want oil everywere now do you. Also Magura's are used on some motorbikes which work the same way as pedal bike magura's and Ive never heard of a water bled motorbike Edited April 5, 2011 by Aidan97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Common sense tells us hydraulic brakes use hydraulic fluid not water ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt.price Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Common sense tells us hydraulic brakes use hydraulic fluid not water ! when they were first invented. yes. because thats what they used in cars and such. no-one would have tried it before now. ( make sense? and they're not gonna change the name are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Common sense tells us hydraulic brakes use hydraulic fluid not water ! Water is a hydraulic fluid! Jebus... Hydraulics is the utilisation of the power of fluids/liquids to transfer energy and carry out work. In that sense a hydraulic fluid could be tomato ketchup, urine, tea, whisky... any liquid really. It just so happens that if you try and use a crane which uses Tetley as the fluid it might not work quite so well as an oil which has been specifically designed to deal with massively high pressures while not compressing, getting hot, leaking past seals and lubricating seals. A bicycle brake isn't quite the same. If I ran a maggy these days, I'd happily run tea in mine just to prove a point... Brad- Have you tried a water bleed before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 As a matter of fact i have used water in my old hs33, tryed it out because i had no fluid. It didn't hold very well and felt wired because the water didnt pump around the system as well as hydraulic fluid, and caused my to fracture my wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt.price Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 As a matter of fact i have used water in my old hs33, tryed it out because i had no fluid. It didn't hold very well and felt wired because the water didnt pump around the system as well as hydraulic fluid, and caused my to fracture my wrist. not a good bleed? not the water? lies? how did it manage to fracture your wrist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 not a good bleed? not the water? lies? how did it manage to fracture your wrist? By the brake slipping while i was at the edge of a wall and i had to let go of the bike and i landed on my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 By the brake slipping while i was at the edge of a wall and i had to let go of the bike and i landed on my hands. That had bugger all to do with your brake being bled with water. Well, unless you did a crap job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan97 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Ive came to the conclusion that everyone should mix water with oil which gives you a light lever but the pistons wont stick. simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Ive came to the conclusion that everyone should mix water with oil which gives you a light lever but the pistons wont stick. simples I've came to a better conclusion let the retards who like to use water use water and let the normal people use hydraulic fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Common sense tells us hydraulic brakes use hydraulic fluid not water ! So you recommend dot 5.1 in maguras? the difference between water and oil (that is important here) is the viscosity. Water has a lower viscosity so will move through the brake quicker and easier, giving a more responsive brake and lighter feel. With the pressure in brake internals you are not going to notice any difference on the compressibility of the fluid only the responsiveness. Personally I dont like pure water bleeds and prefer to use phat phluid (gives the same feel with less issues), but water does make a huge difference over oil to the performance of the brake. It is naive and childishly narrow minded to discount the benefits of something that many people use with out issue and you have never even tried. As for manufacturer recommendations, the manual for maguras states that you can use cooking oil in the brake if you need to (which i did for about 1.5 years with out issue) but not too many people do that. Maguras are also designed for xc use and have just been accepted by trials riders, the fluid designed for them does not give an ideal feel for trials usage where ultimate performance and a highly responsive feel is almost essential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan97 Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I've came to a better conclusion let the retards who like to use water use water and let the normal people use hydraulic fluid. even better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I've came to a better conclusion let the retards who like to use water use water and let the normal people use hydraulic fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Our little discussion has gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Our little discussion has gone I don't even know what the original question was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradJohnson Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I don't even know what the original question was... Why has his grind munched his pads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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