Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Heya guys, I ordered some spokes from Tarty and forgot to specify how I'd lace my wheel. About 15minutes later I emailed them with the order ID apologizing for not mentioning my spoke pattern and that I'd like to build it 3x. I got sent spokes with 2x circled on the spoke length slip you get. My question is, can I use these spokes to lace it 3x or do I just have to put up with it? TL:DR - Spokes the right length for 2x, can I use for 3x? Edited March 29, 2011 by Azarathal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 You have to lace them 3x, for what its worth its not going to significantly increase the weight of the wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 That wasn't what I was asking but thanks anyway. Tarty sent me the wrong spokes by mistake and I'm wondering if they'd be long enough for 3x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) That wasn't what I was asking but thanks anyway. Tarty sent me the wrong spokes by mistake and I'm wondering if they'd be long enough for 3x. Sorry completely missread then :$ Although you do say My question is, can I use these spokes to lace it 2x or do I just have to put up with it? If youre using a rim brake, lace it up 2x and it should be fine, I personally wouldnt if it was for disk use though. Im quite suprised that tarty didnt contact you for clarification. edit: just seen you ride mod, you may get away with 2x and a disk because of the shorter spokes, perhaps someone will be able to shed more light onto it Edited March 29, 2011 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 If youre using a rim brake, lace it up 2x and it should be fine, I personally wouldnt if it was for disk use though. Im quite suprised that tarty didnt contact you for clarification. My bad, first post edited. It's for disk, 3x both sides, I'm very surprised they defaulted to 2x anyway especially when I said that I was using it for a Pro-II front disk hub and I sent a follow up email explaining. Back to my original question, would it be ok to use? I'm going to try find the info needed for a spoke calculator as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstein Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 My bad, first post edited. It's for disk, 3x both sides, I'm very surprised they defaulted to 2x anyway especially when I said that I was using it for a Pro-II front disk hub and I sent a follow up email explaining. Back to my original question, would it be ok to use? I'm going to try find the info needed for a spoke calculator as well. Generally speaking, no. however the spokes sent might actually be the right length but the paper work is wrong. dont forget the invoice is used just for pricing and may have been filled out wrongly. call them and ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Generally speaking, no. however the spokes sent might actually be the right length but the paper work is wrong. dont forget the invoice is used just for pricing and may have been filled out wrongly. call them and ask According to multiple online spoke calcs the spokes they sent me are actually 3-4mm too short even for 2x. I guess I'll have to call in the morning seeing as my hub hasn't turned up yet. Cheers guys. Edit* Checked now on about 5 different spoke Calcs just to be sure, definitely off, unless I'm doing something wrong. Would anyone else care to check the spoke length for 2x and 3x Hope Pro-II Front disk hub laced onto a Echo Urban 32h rim? Edited March 29, 2011 by Azarathal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Would anyone else care to check the spoke length for 2x and 3x Hope Pro-II Front disk hub laced onto a Echo Urban 32h rim? DTswiss spoke calc gives me 177 non disk side and 175 disk side with 2x; with 3x it gives 186 and 184 respectively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Same as me then, I have 174 and 177 spokes. Looks like I wont be riding this week then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 If it's only 1mm on one side it should be fine, you'll just have part of the thread showing at the bottom of the nipple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 About 15minutes later I emailed them with the order ID apologizing for not mentioning my spoke pattern and that I'd like to build it 3x. Just did a search for your e-mail address in our Inbox and there's no e-mail from you mentioning it. Also did a check for your order ID in our Inbox and the only thing relating to it is your original order confirmation and your dispatch e-mail. There's no e-mail anywhere at all from you mentioning spoke lengths unless you sent it from a different e-mail address to the one you used for your order, or sent it without your order ID on it. I can even screenshot the search results if you don't believe me for whatever reason. If youre using a rim brake, lace it up 2x and it should be fine, I personally wouldnt if it was for disk use though. Based on what? Anything in particular? I've used several wheels laced 2x on the front for disc usage, generally with 2x disc/radial non disc. Did it on my 24, currently doing it on my Sky, did it on my Lynx, Adam's currently got it on the front of one of his bikes, Stan used to have it on the front of his Sky - I've had absolutely no problems with 2x and a front disc, at all, ever. That's using single wall rims on pretty much all of those - with a stiffer/stronger rim like an Urban there should be nothing wrong with it in any way. I even did it with a 203mm BB7 on the front of my mod years ago, and that included a lot of up to fronts and gaps to front. The Silver Sky even came with a 2x rear wheel... Im quite suprised that tarty didnt contact you for clarification. We don't usually e-mail/call people to check which spoke lacing they want because most of the time we just have a standard way for doing it which seems to work for 99.9% of people who order from us. If it's a rear wheel, it'll be 3x both sides (or 4x if we don't have the correct length for 3x. If we have to dip to 2x we usually e-mail first). If it's a non-disc front wheel then we'll usually go for the fewest crosses possible (depending on the model of hub, as some can stand radial lacing better than others). If it's a disc front wheel then it'll often be 3x or 2x disc side, radial non-disc, unless we suspect that someone might want more crosses on their non-disc side (e.g. someone using a Pro2 and an Urban...). If we don't have the correct spokes for any of these (such as with Mike's case where we didn't have 184 and 186mm spokes in white in stock), we generally go to the 'next best thing' - in this case, 2x/2x. I'm very surprised they defaulted to 2x anyway especially when I said that I was using it for a Pro-II front disk hub and I sent a follow up email explaining. Again, 2x should be fine and I can't find that e-mail anywhere. ...the spokes they sent me are actually 3-4mm too short even for 2x. 177 non disk side and 175 disk side with 2x Same as me then, I have 174 and 177 spokes. How are they '3-4mm too short'? If we're getting specific, using the calculator we've got here you need 174.6mm disc side and 176.7mm non disc side. That means your disc side spokes are 0.6mm "too short" and your non disc spokes are 0.3mm "too long". I'm using the "" because that's not going to do anything at all in terms of building your wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I believe you, I did definitely send you an email though. Regarding the 2x build, is it really viable? I'll admit that when I ran maggy + radial I never really noticed any flex at all but I assumed with disk it'd flex a hell of a lot more. Also, the 3-4mm was due to me miscalculating the spokes on my first try, I think I put 36h by accident or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Regarding the 2x build, is it really viable? I'll admit that when I ran maggy + radial I never really noticed any flex at all but I assumed with disk it'd flex a hell of a lot more. I've used several wheels laced 2x on the front for disc usage, generally with 2x disc/radial non disc. Did it on my 24, currently doing it on my Sky, did it on my Lynx, Adam's currently got it on the front of one of his bikes, Stan used to have it on the front of his Sky - I've had absolutely no problems with 2x and a front disc, at all, ever. That's using single wall rims on pretty much all of those - with a stiffer/stronger rim like an Urban there should be nothing wrong with it in any way. I even did it with a 203mm BB7 on the front of my mod years ago, and that included a lot of up to fronts and gaps to front. The Silver Sky even came with a 2x rear wheel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 2x/Radial is cool on front wheels. Mine isnt dead yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 2x/Radial is cool on front wheels. Mine isnt dead yet... Yep, I've done it on my last 3 front mod wheels, never had a problem. As Mark said, the Silver Sky bikes came with 2x rear wheel and again no issues. Mike - Which spoke calcs are you using? Which dimensions for hub and rim? I'm 99% confident the spoke sheet with your order is correct, 175 disc 2x and 177 non disc 2x will build up perfectly. I probably built 1 of these wheels per week a couple of years ago. Your notes didn't specify a lacing pattern so in these cases we go with something that's a good balance of weight, strength and uses the closest lengths to what we have in stock - for example, if 3x is 188 and we only have 186, we'll check what lengths are needed for 2x and if it's closer we'll go with that. If you do want to send them back for refund or exchange though then no problem at all, our returns form is in the T&Cs section of the site. Forteh - Emailing/calling people to ask about lacing patterns is usually fruitless and a waste of everyone's time - it's rare for customers to know what they want (and if they do, they'll put it in the notes) and it often adds another 24-48 hours onto the overall ordering process, which nobody wants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Forteh - Emailing/calling people to ask about lacing patterns is usually fruitless and a waste of everyone's time - it's rare for customers to know what they want (and if they do, they'll put it in the notes) and it often adds another 24-48 hours onto the overall ordering process, which nobody wants! Fair enough Im sure you guys have rung me before when there was a query/problem on an order, going back several years now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) I don't really understand why people are so bothered My friend used to ride a comas replica megamo 10+years ago and that came with straight on the disk side and 2x the other. I may have been to small to bend it but it was still a top spec £1000 bike so must have been ok. And now I use that front wheel as a spair and it has never bent it's well thin but strong as hell. Just build it and ride it it will be fine. I'm sure tartys have rung me befor when I have had order problems previousley with them. ( don't think it's was to do with lacing though) Edited March 30, 2011 by bella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Im sure you guys have rung me before when there was a query/problem on an order, going back several years now though. Yep, if there is a query/problem we'll always email or call within 8 working hours. We class spokes as a different case though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) New problem, not sure if I'm lacing it 3x by accident but, when im lacing 2x do I count the crossing spoke as a cross? So... Over a leading spoke and under a crossing spoke or do I go over a crossing and under a crossing? Edit. When I go over a leading and under a leading, once its all laced it looks 3x. If I only go over one leading when its done lacing it looks like 1x. I've only ever done 3x and radial before, could someone please link me to a 2x specific guide? Edited March 30, 2011 by Azarathal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Finally laced it, now I have to true it. All other wheels I've laced (32h Radial, 36h 3x) have been almost true just by lacing, this is pissed all over the place. So far I hate 2x with a passion, lets hope Marks right about the stiffness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Whether it's true or not at that stage doesn't really have anything to do with the fact it's 2x. If it's crossing 2 spokes, then that's 2 cross. Any guide involving crossing spokes at all should be usable as literally all you do is cross two spokes with it. EDIT: From another site: 1 cross. 2 cross. 3 cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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