Real Coust Pad=Phat Backings (Up Date, Page 2)

[Matthew_Gibson]

Iv had heatsink coust before, and all I can say is they are awesome, Best pad by far? that was with a vee though and vee is better IMO (when set up correct) I just cant have a vee on a mod. and get it working well.....

[gary-mac]

I've just ordered the same Coust pads in plastic backings from Trialprod.

Hopefully they'll work just as well for me, unless I need to do a harsher grind.

Cool, well the only reason am doing it is to compare the 2 pads. I'll be back using the yellows very soon as there simply awesome. Am just sad that i want to know if there is any difference.

[Heatsink]

I know Heatsink sell Coust pads, now are these the same pads ( same material/compound, made the same)?

I would love a set of those pads, but only want the ones that Josh had if they are different, if they are the same then I'll be contacting Steve for some.

Hohum, here we go.... Just to clear up any misunderstanding, I order the Coust pads from Michel Coustellier, exactly the same compound and processing as he issues to any other buyer such as other riders buying direct or the pads he sells to Trialprod. It should be expected that the pigment level can vary, but this has no influence on the mechanical properties of the pad. It is more likely that the difference of the Michel glued ontop pads having 10mm of material instead of 7.5-8mm of the ones I cut and glue into the backing could have some effect.

Regarding how Michel glues his pads ontop of the Magura backings, to my mind the benefits of a super thick pad and super quick manufacture are seriously outweighed by safety concerns associated with not having any portion of the pad submerged into the backing, and relying on a very small glue bond area around the skinny perimeter of the pad. One serious accident would be one too many!

So all Coust pads sold by HeatsinkBikes are 100% bonafide "Real" Coust pads, but I can see why the story of elusive special Coust pads only obtainable through less obvious channels is compelling. Natually pads with some interesting back story can inevitably influence the usual belt and braces assessments of pad performance. Of course all pad manufacturers benefit from this scenario to some degree!

Anyroad, why all this talk of Coust pads when everyone knows Heatsink Yellow CNC Maguras are the daddies!

Steve

[Nick Manning]

Steve I am asking about the Coust due to experiencing the quality of there performance. I have not yet come across anyone with your yellow Heatsink pads, and so don't have any idea on there performance.

[craigjames]

Hohum, here we go.... Just to clear up any misunderstanding, I order the Coust pads from Michel Coustellier, exactly the same compound and processing as he issues to any other buyer such as other riders buying direct or the pads he sells to Trialprod. It should be expected that the pigment level can vary, but this has no influence on the mechanical properties of the pad. It is more likely that the difference of the Michel glued ontop pads having 10mm of material instead of 7.5-8mm of the ones I cut and glue into the backing could have some effect.

Regarding how Michel glues his pads ontop of the Magura backings, to my mind the benefits of a super thick pad and super quick manufacture are seriously outweighed by safety concerns associated with not having any portion of the pad submerged into the backing, and relying on a very small glue bond area around the skinny perimeter of the pad. One serious accident would be one too many!

So all Coust pads sold by HeatsinkBikes are 100% bonafide "Real" Coust pads, but I can see why the story of elusive special Coust pads only obtainable through less obvious channels is compelling. Natually pads with some interesting back story can inevitably influence the usual belt and braces assessments of pad performance. Of course all pad manufacturers benefit from this scenario to some degree!

Anyroad, why all this talk of Coust pads when everyone knows Heatsink Yellow CNC Maguras are the daddies!

Steve

This may be the case, I've tried bikes with both pads and the "genuine" Cousts have always performed better. Hence why I've bought a set of your pads and I've bought a set of Michel's pads. Straight and fair comparison.

Regards to the material being stuck to the backings, I know a few riders that have been using these pads for a few years now with no issue's and both of them ride a hell of a lot more than the average rider and at a much higher level. Neither of them have had any problems and both of them swear by the pads.

[Heatsink]

This may be the case, I've tried bikes with both pads and the "genuine" Cousts have always performed better. Hence why I've bought a set of your pads and I've bought a set of Michel's pads. Straight and fair comparison.

Regards to the material being stuck to the backings, I know a few riders that have been using these pads for a few years now with no issue's and both of them ride a hell of a lot more than the average rider and at a much higher level. Neither of them have had any problems and both of them swear by the pads.

Hey Craig,

I don't want to spend much more time on the topic, but I stand by my point about the inevitable short comings in the belt and braces approach to pad assessment. Different bikes, different rims and no two pads set up exactly the same etc being compared and an interesting back story thrown into the mix. Such is the way of the world!

If you know of a few riders who can vouch for pads stuck ontop of plastic backings holding on ok, then this is reassuring to hear. However, I have to have very high confidence across many hundreds of pads. My own risk assessment would be that there would be a risk of a higher % issue occurence with the stuck on the top approach.

As I said earlier, if anyone is in doubt why not email the source of the pads Michel Coustellier and ask him whether he supplies different pads to Heatsink Bikes compared to the ones he supplies to others I shall force myself not to post any more replies, but it's understandably hard when you're being accused of some sort of deception supplying fake goods!

Steve

[Luke Rainbird]

I have not yet come across anyone with your yellow Heatsink pads, and so don't have any idea on there performance.

Rich was running them all weekend

[gary-mac]

Hohum, here we go.... Just to clear up any misunderstanding, I order the Coust pads from Michel Coustellier, exactly the same compound and processing as he issues to any other buyer such as other riders buying direct or the pads he sells to Trialprod. It should be expected that the pigment level can vary, but this has no influence on the mechanical properties of the pad. It is more likely that the difference of the Michel glued ontop pads having 10mm of material instead of 7.5-8mm of the ones I cut and glue into the backing could have some effect.

Regarding how Michel glues his pads ontop of the Magura backings, to my mind the benefits of a super thick pad and super quick manufacture are seriously outweighed by safety concerns associated with not having any portion of the pad submerged into the backing, and relying on a very small glue bond area around the skinny perimeter of the pad. One serious accident would be one too many!

So all Coust pads sold by HeatsinkBikes are 100% bonafide "Real" Coust pads, but I can see why the story of elusive special Coust pads only obtainable through less obvious channels is compelling. Natually pads with some interesting back story can inevitably influence the usual belt and braces assessments of pad performance. Of course all pad manufacturers benefit from this scenario to some degree!

Anyroad, why all this talk of Coust pads when everyone knows Heatsink Yellow CNC Maguras are the daddies!

Steve

+1, cnc yellows are the best performing pad by miles for me, only trying these cousts to see what all the fuss is about. will be out tonight so will have a idea by later on how they perform. Regarding the glue on top with no portion of the pad cut into the backing does worrie me!! With all that power, vibration etc over time could quite easy tare the pad away from the resin IMO.

[Nick Manning]

Rich was running them all weekend

I hadn't noticed, lol.

[SamKidney]

+1 for the Heatsink CNC Yellows.

Have been the best and most reliable pad Ive used.

Im going back to my TNN Lgms again though. My grinds were always crap and never got the best out of them.

Seems a waste of £30 when they are just sat there.

Be sure to post how the Heatsink Cousts perform. Im tempted to buy some after watching one of Dan Burtons videos.

[dirt jumper jake]

+1 for plazmatic yellows.

[Matthew62]

Genuine, shemnuin....you can't compare two brakes with two different pads, rim set-ups etc there's too many variables.

All i know is i went from Cousts to Heatsink Yellows and i ain't never going back to cousts. These yellows are something else. I have a three year old grind and if anything the brake is too strong. Manuals get slapped down hard and it always locks perfectly.

No need to use anything else.

[dann2707]

Genuine, shemnuin....you can't compare two brakes with two different pads, rim set-ups etc there's too many variables.

All i know is i went from Cousts to Heatsink Yellows and i ain't never going back to cousts. These yellows are something else. I have a three year old grind and if anything the brake is too strong. Manuals get slapped down hard and it always locks perfectly.

No need to use anything else.

What rim are you using?

[Matthew62]

DMR DV24

[gary-mac]

Hi all, ok first night of trying out the cousts, had a beasting 2.5hours in dry weather. even managed a p/b 41 inch sidehop to backwheel, nothing to do with the pads though. so far these pads look/sound/feel and perform the same as HSB cousts. unreal bite but once again unless i get right up to rear it just didn't hold and this is exacly what the hsb coust do. Its only been 2.5hours so will leave them on for the next week to really try them. plus i also have a fresh medium/sharp grind.

If they fail to impress in the next wk i'll have a brandnew set of cousts for sale in plastic backing so keep a eye out guys if your interested. will be wanting my money back on these.

HSB CNC YELLOWS really are awesome and look like there the pad for me, dry or wet weather they just work. end of story.

[Mark W]

. I don't know why, they just bite and hold better, different noise (which is most likely down to the backings)and they wear better;

All those attributes you've mentioned will be massively dependent on setup and backing. I'm assuming the CNC-backed Coust pads wore down faster, right?

[craigjames]

All those attributes you've mentioned will be massively dependent on setup and backing. I'm assuming the CNC-backed Coust pads wore down faster, right?

Yeah the CNC backed cousts did wear down faster. I appreciate things are down to set up. It's why I'm doing everything on my own bike, set up by me, same rim etc. I know setup is dependant on many other factors, but surely I'm not going to set one of pads up any worse than another (I don't intentionally want a shit brake, that wouldn't be very healthy!) and I'm sure during the life of the pads they wont be set up just once. Just my thinking that over a duration, with wheels getting removed, brakes being re-set up, rims re-ground etc. for both sets, then things should come out fairly even with regards to set up which would effectively rule that one out?

I know brake pads are and their performance is totally reliant on set up, but I can only base my experience of the two types of pads on the various bikes I've ridden with them. The only time the Heatsink Cousts in CNC backings came out on top was when they were run on a vee by Mr Pearson, they've been good on a magura (as mine are at the moment) just never quite as good as the alternative Cousts.

Meh.

[Mark W]

All I meant was that if pads are even slightly at an angle with CNC backings they're going to wear noticeably faster than plastic backed pads would just because of the extra stiffness of the CNC backings. That's why I don't really find it to be that 'fair' a test, so to speak. Same goes for bite, hold, etc. It's impossible to get a properly identical setup, so it doesn't really seem all that fair to compare them back to back (no pun intended ). Same way that with a booster, it's making your brake stiffer and arguably better, but it can make brakes seem quieter and less bitey so some people don't prefer running one, even though it's technically better.

EDIT: TL;DR - the pad material could be exactly the same (and sounds like it is the same), but the backings are going to make a huge difference and are going to make the actual material appear to perform differently.

[forteh]

From reading the thread, am I correct in understanding that the cousts in plastic backings are only glued round the outer lip of the backings and not directly supported at all in the centre of the pad? That must have a massive effect on the performance of the compound as it can deflect far easier that if supported fully by an aluminium backing. I have only used HSB coust vee pads on the front and they work very well, loads of hold with a little bit of modulation; I cant directly compare them to any other pads though. I use HSB yellows on the back and they are awesome as gary has stated

[gary-mac]

From reading the thread, am I correct in understanding that the cousts in plastic backings are only glued round the outer lip of the backings and not directly supported at all in the centre of the pad? That must have a massive effect on the performance of the compound as it can deflect far easier that if supported fully by an aluminium backing. I have only used HSB coust vee pads on the front and they work very well, loads of hold with a little bit of modulation; I cant directly compare them to any other pads though. I use HSB yellows on the back and they are awesome as gary has stated

yeah the cnc yellows are awesome, i honestly can't fault them even when i put a new refill in, use for 10mins the performance is streight back.

As for cousts they do have glue in the centre, all they do is fill the backing full of resin and press the pad on top, once set they just buff/tidy the pad up and hey prestoooooo.

[Luke Rainbird]

I've never used the "real" Cousts myself but have only ever found them to perform perfectly on other bikes (Seddon's etc). Whether it's down to the backings or other aspects of the setup, I've only ever been disappointed with CoustSinks on one bike before, so whether or not they're the same compound or not is almost irrelevant considering the performance the 'Sinks provide. If that's not enough then you're doing something seriously wrong with your technique.

I used some CNC CoustSinks on my vee years back and it set of half a dozen car alarms

[Greetings]

unreal bite but once again unless i get right up to rear it just didn't hold and this is exacly what the hsb coust do

That's my experience with the "new" Cousts too.

Back in 2006 I bought a pair of Coustsinks from Steve and they were by far the best pads I'd ever used. They were completely flawless in every way, loads of bite and loads of hold in all conditions. One just stopped caring about whether it was soaking wet outside or not because the difference in pefrormance was marginal.

However, the "newer" Coust just have lots of bite and no hold. Despite what Michael C. says, I'm pretty sure something has changed in the compound.

[gary-mac]

I've never used the "real" Cousts myself but have only ever found them to perform perfectly on other bikes (Seddon's etc). Whether it's down to the backings or other aspects of the setup, I've only ever been disappointed with CoustSinks on one bike before, so whether or not they're the same compound or not is almost irrelevant considering the performance the 'Sinks provide. If that's not enough then you're doing something seriously wrong with your technique.

I used some CNC CoustSinks on my vee years back and it set of half a dozen car alarms

There loud i'll give you that but one things for sure, my technique aint seriously wrong, riding or setting up. many years of know how at world level motortrials riding and working on bikes so i'd rule that out. The cousts work fantastic when in forward motion, but if theres a big up where you need the brake to hold it just doesn't, it slips back. Cousts in front brake i'd say there one of the best out there, just not for rear IMO.

[dirt jumper jake]

Havent tried hsb yellows, but i must say my cousts in cnc backings piss all over my old LGM's...

[gary-mac]

Havent tried hsb yellows, but i must say my cousts in cnc backings piss all over my old LGM's...

yeah +1 from me, Lgm seem to be very inconsistent for me but work for lots of other people though. I would honestly try HSB YELLOWS with a fresh medium sharp grind. you'll be impressed.

Edited March 25, 2011 by gary-mac