Ashton Revolve Frames

[bikeperson45]

Hello. I currently ride a 2007 Echo Control which I like but still I'm not sure if it suits me. The geomatries 1085, +15, 72*, I'm reasonably sure. One of my problems is that this is the most trialsy bike I've ever rode really except for my Levelboss that's 1065. I found the wheelbase increase pretty natural to change too.

I've been thinking about getting the new Ashton Revolve frame, I assumethe 5mm wheelbase difference wouldn't be too noticeable? And what would the 15mm increase in BB height be like? Any opinions about these frames in general? I'm keen on the Ashton because it's pretty cheap (220 with the forks and headset) and I like the looks of it. Plus I'd like to try getting something new, having always seemed to have inherited problems buying second hand. Also, are the forks any good generally?

But then I have another problem about whether the frame would actually suit me. I'm probably spinnier than most riders although I still like doing sidehops, up to fronts and all that. A lot of people would say get an Inspired here I think however I'm pretty certain 24" feels too small for me, having ridden an Onza Zoot. Do people (you) think that it would be better to get something like the Ashton, improve at the more fundamental trials techniques and then possibly go for a more street capable bike?

Thanks

[Scott Gibbs]

The ashton is longer than your old Echo and you say your a spinny rider then its probably not advised. (Goin on strictly geometry here) prehaps a rockman switch maybe better. Its not silly short something around 1060mm so traditional trials is still possible without major hassle but will make spinny stuff easier.

[Ali C]

or a Hex

[bikeperson45]

The ashton is longer than your old Echo and you say your a spinny rider then its probably not advised. (Goin on strictly geometry here) prehaps a rockman switch maybe better. Its not silly short something around 1060mm so traditional trials is still possible without major hassle but will make spinny stuff easier.

I've thought about the Switch, but I find my Echo comfortable for the TGS stuff and alright for spinning. I'm more hesitiant about buying one since it's a lot more different in geometry than the Ashton.

or a Hex

I'd love to try one but they're out of budget as it is and I don't want to be taking too much of a risk

Thanks for the replys

[Matt Vandart]

Excellent frame but I didn't like the forks in combination with the frame.

Don't bother getting one if you wanna do spinny stuff, it is possible but so much more effort.

It is a good all rounder frame though, good on street good on natural.

Edit: Observe.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Matt Vandart

[Luke Rainbird]

That bike has rather different geometry to the Resolve though.

[bikeperson45]

Excellent frame but I didn't like the forks in combination with the frame.

For what reason?

Don't bother getting one if you wanna do spinny stuff, it is possible but so much more effort.

It is a good all rounder frame though, good on street good on natural.

I find my current Echo alright to spin though, do you think there would be that much difference in the difficulty?

Thanks again

[Luke Rainbird]

Taking it to extremes;

Stand up. Try and jump 360.

Lie down. Try and jump 360.

Which was easier?

The only real difference between your Echo and the Resolve is that the Ashton has a higher BB. This'll put you in a 'flatter' position making it a tad harder to spin (assuming you run the same setup on the rest of the bike)

Short and a little rise will spin, but if you go too long or too low it can be a bit of a bitch to get round.

Best bet if you're unsure of what to go for is to keep the Echo for a while and try out as many different frames as possible. Get a feel for what you like/don't like, and go from there

[Scott Gibbs]

Sorry to be padantic and picky Matt but what Rowan is riding is the old justice frame and not the resolve. But your right its a better all rounder than most.

[Ali C]

The only real difference between your Echo and the Resolve is that the Ashton has a higher BB. This'll put you in a 'flatter' position making it a tad harder to spin (assuming you run the same setup on the rest of the bike)

wat?

higher bb is easier to spin, you have to raise the bars as well though. If you raise the bb height and not the bars, firstly you are a fool and secondly it would be harder to pull up for hops which in turn is harder for spins, but a low bb and low bars will still be harder to spin and hop than a high bb and (comparable) low bars.

[Skoze]

Think Luke was getting at a high bb low front end thing in true TGSORZ fashion

[Ali C]

ahh, k

[Luke Rainbird]

(assuming you run the same setup on the rest of the bike)

Higher BB makes things much more fun for spinnyness, but of course you have to match the front end too.

Not that it's impossible to spin a high bb/low front end/longer bike, but it's a funkload harder to get results!

[bikeperson45]

So on the Resolve what sort of rise would you need to make it okay for spinniness?

I was out today and I'm just about able to 360 my Echo off a curb (it's not the best 360 obviously) but am I right in thinking that that sort of spin is going to be harder on the Ashton or if I get a more suitable stem could it be easier?

And on these street bikes like the Hex and Switch how drastically different would they be for static moves? But then I suppose that can also be altered with the stem...

Thanks for the replies, seem to be thinking about much more than I'd originally planned.

[Ali C]

I have just built up a hex for natural riding and have just had a spin out on the street, the only thing that seems harder is taps (because of the shorter wheelbase), but everything else is still fine, I have a 90mm stem on mine too, so a longer one would feel a bit more stretched out, but harder to spin.

[rupintart]

I think the problem is too many people are too scared to go out an experiment on their own to find out what works FOR THEM. Instead, people build up bikes exactly like everybody else's and are satisfied because they think they should be because "this is how everybody else set's it up, so this is ideal."

No. Fact of the matter is, not everybody rides the same. Even two people who ride together daily and ride exactly the same will have different preferences so there is NO REASON two bikes should be set-up exactly alike.

I'll give you an example. A buddy of mine set up his bike exactly like danny macs, I think the only difference being he ran the right size tubes, and was running Vees instead of a Maggie rear. He ran everything identical down to the amount of spacers under the stem. For me, that bike felt like total shit. But look how well it works for Danny. I rode mostly street too but it didn't fit what I wanted and we (me and my buddy) ride pretty much the same. He did that for two reasons. 1. he worked at a shop and was able to 2. he rides predominantly BMX, so he figured "that'll be how I ride, so I build it like that and be good to go." He too eventually switched to a shorter stem and changed around the tires as well. I think to this day he's still changing shit up to suit his riding more.

Another example is when I sold my Inspired it was set-up as like 75/25 street/trials. It was exactly what the new owner wanted ratio wise and he switched it up because he felt it was "too streety." So see, even with the same ratio of riding in mind, what I perceive as streety is too much street for another person.

A Hex is your best bet like Ali pointed out. It's everything you're wanting according to your posts. Getting a bike that's not what you're after, and finding you like it only to have the desire to buy another bike is far more expensive than just sucking it up and buying what you really want. Cause even if you don't like it, it's far easier to sell a Hex than it is something else.

But even that aside, just go grab something that YOU think would suit you, and just experiment with stems and bars. You'll probably find that what you will like is different than what others like and be happier in the end.

[Matt Vandart]

***stuff***

A Hex is your best bet like Ali pointed out. It's everything you're wanting according to your posts. Getting a bike that's not what you're after, and finding you like it only to have the desire to buy another bike is far more expensive than just sucking it up and buying what you really want. Cause even if you don't like it, it's far easier to sell a Hex than it is something else.

But even that aside, just go grab something that YOU think would suit you, and just experiment with stems and bars. You'll probably find that what you will like is different than what others like and be happier in the end.

This is VERY sensible.

[bikeperson45]

You talk a lot of sense, thanks for that.

Because I haven't ridden that many bikes, I don't really know what my preferences are, like I can't really tell whether I want a longer or shorter wheelbase (maybe that means it is the right wheelbase )

Thanks for the replys

[Scott Gibbs]

That is true about set up. I run a 50x0 stem on my bike and 30mm os stackers. Most people would find that set up awful but its mega comfy to me.

[rupintart]

You talk a lot of sense, thanks for that.

Because I haven't ridden that many bikes, I don't really know what my preferences are, like I can't really tell whether I want a longer or shorter wheelbase (maybe that means it is the right wheelbase )

Thanks for the replys

If you haven't ridden much, go based off what you KNOW you like and be 100% honest with yourself in knowing what terrain and style of riding you'll be doing. I.e. no sense in getting a knobby if you're riding urban only. If you find you're doing lots of spins and whatever, you don't need to run low pressure despite what everybody else does. Run it high and take advantage of the lower rolling resistance. With higher PSI you can run tires like Holy Rollers, KHEs or SB8 and not worry as much about flatting because you have higher pressure on your side.

No need in getting some beefy front wheel if you're not doing anything really front heavy, save weight. There's so many common sense things that people gloss over in favor of going with what everybody else is using, even if there's a product out there better suited for them. I ran KHE tires and everybody hated them for getting flats, but those same people didn't take advantage of the fact that they can run 120psi in the tire and prevent all those flat. They would run lower pressures because "50psi is more than enough for street". Well obviously it isn't if your tires keep flatting. Also, why would you run anything except a street tire if you're not gonna get off pavement? Simple things like that.

Shorter wheelbase = better for spinning and more flicky. Shorter stem also makes it more flicky. Look at BMX bikes, do you ever see them with anything longer than 50mm? There's a reason for that. Like bender said, 50mm may feel like rubbish to some (or does it? As most have never really tried it!) but he really likes it! So just go based of what you KNOW you like and be honest with your riding ability and what you'll really be riding. That's how all the top riders are. They find what works for them and go off what they know, and don't typically follow what everybody else is doing.