Mark W Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I think it's good to 'preview' their upcoming products, at least we know they somewhat exist. Apart from the way that a lot of the time they won't ever exist, so when you get people calling up demanding to know why you haven't got ______ Echo or Zoo bits 'because they're on their website', it gets a little annoying... Spanish BB's - epic fail. I am liking the frames and drop outs though! Been fine on their Echo, Adamant and Czar 24" frames? Fine on BMX too. No reason they shouldn't work in that the bearings are nice and big (but not massive, so they don't look 'bulky'), and the ISIS spindle is just as strong as normal. Ti version available too so that's a nice bonus if you want to make your bike lighter... Never thought i would buy a mod again, but now deng have made a 1020wb with 80bb. im buying one. any ideas when tarty will have them!? I think there was talk of something like a 3 month wait for pre-ordering them because basically they don't have these all made in the quantities needed yet, so it's a case of waiting (then possibly waiting some more...) to actually get them in. You get a BB with the frame so prices will be higher than current Echo/Zoo prices, I'd imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Seems these days the trend is going towards lighter and more simple looking frames whilst maintaining decent strength. I guess the lack of welded-on booster is nice for those people who don't like boosters or just want the lightest set up. Though to be fair, I'd trust a big sturdy 4-bolt booster over a welded on one. built in boosters are great, even better if you have an extra booster on top, it seems a shame to miss them out, even a bit of extra bracing would be nice, when i shop for a frame i look for as many built in features as possible, booster, disc mounts an tensioner they add value to the frame. Edited November 28, 2010 by ogre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l33th3tr33 Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 CCCCCCCCombo breaker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 CCCCCCCCombo breaker! Killer Instinct on SNES? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetrial Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I think it's good to 'preview' their upcoming products, at least we know they somewhat exist. But I'm guessing the reason why they're not so highly anticipated in the UK and Europe is because Hope is readily available and likely will not be much difference in price with the Echo disc brake. to be honest, the Echo disc is almost definitely something catered towards the domestic market in China as all other decent hydro brakes are from North American or European brands which are horribly expensive there. To say the least it's something to look at for the time being Seems these days the trend is going towards lighter and more simple looking frames whilst maintaining decent strength. I guess the lack of welded-on booster is nice for those people who don't like boosters or just want the lightest set up. Though to be fair, I'd trust a big sturdy 4-bolt booster over a welded on one. Agreed about the stems, his older ones had a design that looked fine and worked well? Actually most generic disc brakes are, as is most bike parts in general, produced in the Far East. As for Hope, the only country Hope has ever been cheap in is, UK. When I bought my first Hope brake in Norway, It set me back around NOK 3200,- (Ca. £ 340 ) I would be VERY interested in a new contender in the trials specific brake market. And having it at the Echo TR pricepoint would be genius. But I would like to see it displayed separately as a "work in progress" teaser instead of a part of a complete spec. Showing it as a part of their available lineup makes me assume you could order, and buy it today, which you can`t! Lighter - Yes Simpler - Yes Functional - More than ever. No excuse to cut corners. Eliminating frame flex will be of interest for anyone. Be it a hucker, or a silky smooth rider. The stems weren`t artworks before either, but they were less bulky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Actually most generic disc brakes are, as is most bike parts in general, produced in the Far East. As for Hope, the only country Hope has ever been cheap in is, UK. When I bought my first Hope brake in Norway, It set me back around NOK 3200,- (Ca. £ 340 ) I would be VERY interested in a new contender in the trials specific brake market. And having it at the Echo TR pricepoint would be genius. But I would like to see it displayed separately as a "work in progress" teaser instead of a part of a complete spec. Showing it as a part of their available lineup makes me assume you could order, and buy it today, which you can`t! Lighter - Yes Simpler - Yes Functional - More than ever. No excuse to cut corners. Eliminating frame flex will be of interest for anyone. Be it a hucker, or a silky smooth rider. The stems weren`t artworks before either, but they were less bulky. I think every single person on the forum knows that the at least 99% of trials parts are made in China. I wasn't saying that these parts were made in-house by say a European company and exported to China. That wasn't my main point though anyway. Almost any brand that isn't Chinese-owned then it normally has crazy over-the-top prices as imported goods. The same goes for everyday stuff in China, if you pop into 7-Eleven and want to buy Evian (bottled in China, not even 'imported') it costs 11x as much as Chinese-branded water (which isn't bad at all). Shopping for Western clothing brands that are made in China still carry *at least* the price in the West plus tax. Similarly Koxx parts are very very expensive in China, moreso than in the UK, same goes for all the other European brands... even though their stuff is made in China. Magura is shockingly expensive too, and I don't think that's 100% made in Germany either? Most generic disc brakes are turd for trials, so people use either Avid BB7 or those lucky ones use Hope or Magura if they can afford it in China. I think this is the main good thing about the (supposed) release of Echo's own hydraulic disc brakes. No import-esque prices, so the local riders can afford a decent hydro disc brake. I've noticed during trips to China that there are a small handful of parts that are exclusive to the domestic Chinese market. e.g. a factory-standard White Czar 24" instead of brown or green, and I've seen a few Echo SL disc brakes 'in the flesh' too, they are pretty but Hope has the reputation... Edited November 28, 2010 by Ares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty99 Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Killer Instinct on SNES? UUULLLLLLLLTTTTRRRRRRAAAAAAAAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I think there was talk of something like a 3 month wait for pre-ordering them because basically they don't have these all made in the quantities needed yet, so it's a case of waiting (then possibly waiting some more...) to actually get them in. You get a BB with the frame so prices will be higher than current Echo/Zoo prices, I'd imagine. My bets on may/june time then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I think every single person on the forum knows that the at least 99% of trials parts are made in China. I wouldn't say it was that high (although that depends if you're differentiating between Taiwan and China?)... Koxx parts are very very expensive in China, moreso than in the UK, same goes for all the other European brands... even though their stuff is made in China. Magura is shockingly expensive too, and I don't think that's 100% made in Germany either? Magura parts are all made in Germany. There's basically a town that is purely built around the Magura factory, it's that big. Where parts are made is irrelevant too if they're being shipped from the place they're made to the actual company and then out from there. I know of companies who allow dealers in places nearer their factories in Taiwan to have parts shipped directly from there to save money on shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Magura parts are all made in Germany. There's basically a town that is purely built around the Magura factory, it's that big. Where parts are made is irrelevant too if they're being shipped from the place they're made to the actual company and then out from there. I know of companies who allow dealers in places nearer their factories in Taiwan to have parts shipped directly from there to save money on shipping. Cool, I wasn't entirely sure on if Magura was completely manufactured in-house. Thanks for clearing that up Meh, I only bothered bringing up the high prices of foreign brands in China as point to give a thumbs up to the Echo disc brakes for the Chinese market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Ah, cool. Sort of gives people a bit of understanding about the flip side of the UK prices vs. Biketrialseller prices shenanigans, I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gu trials Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 anybody know what bars those are on the mod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetrial Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) anybody know what bars those are on the mod? Echo TR or SL. Edited November 28, 2010 by freetrial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 They're either the TR or SL bars - can make out the 'Echo' logo on the bars in one of the pics, plus they've got that same weird sorta shape to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianatrials Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 The mod and 24" frmaes look really awesome! The geos are all good too. I like the idea of a spanish BB. Why am i not seing their "integrated chain tensioning system"? Looks just like normal dropouts to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostrider88 Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 The mod and 24" frmaes look really awesome! The geos are all good too. I like the idea of a spanish BB. Why am i not seing their "integrated chain tensioning system"? Looks just like normal dropouts to me they are not exactly horizontal,that´s different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) The Echo lineup, specially the 26 and 24 could do with a tiny built in booster. I`d also space out the seatstays so that the 4-bolt mounts would sit "lower", and more inside the frame. In 2011 we should not have the need for external boosters! My last echo didn't really need a booster. No disc mount on 24, ghey. And how does the integrated chain tensioning minge work? Edited November 28, 2010 by Matt Vandart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 not a huge fan to be honest. I don't like how skinny they all look, I know you can't tell from a picture, but it just screams "flexy" at me. Also not a fan of the Geo either, it's getting rarer and rarer to find any frames with a lowish ~30mm bb. I want to ride my bikes, not pretend they are pogo sticks. The 24" is pretty nuts with the chainstays that short and the bb that high, but the Because Trial frame was similar and sold quite well, so what do I know eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnyMilton Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 They look so samey, I think if a company releases a new product, they should try and make it look just a little different from the previous year. Its good that Deng has given the Zoo about of make up, but still think it looks horrible. I don't know why but I just don't like Deng frames, I can't seem to put my finger on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I want to ride my bikes, not pretend they are pogo sticks. I love you hahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 They look so samey, I think if a company releases a new product, they should try and make it look just a little different from the previous year. Its good that Deng has given the Zoo about of make up, but still think it looks horrible. I don't know why but I just don't like Deng frames, I can't seem to put my finger on it? In fairness to Deng, the new Zoo looks quite a lot different to the '09 Piranha and the earlier Pitbulls. It sort of blends them both in a cool way, but the graphics and finish are totally new for them. The Echos look pretty similar but I think if they'd updated the graphics on those too it'd make them look a lot, lot 'newer'. I don't want to keep going on about it, but even if they made the frames look identical to the previous models but just put the Spanish BB on there it'd be a big step forward even if cosmetically it's not much. A trials manufacturer stepping out of the norm that much is a good thing, as it suggests there are companies out there willing to try new things that could benefit riders a lot. Very few of the more demanding disciplines of riding use a traditional BB like trials bikes do at the moment, so it's good that they're trying to make things better, even if it means that in the short-term it's a bit more limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 I agree, the bb may have sold it for me on the 24. I also think that there is alot to be said for if it isn't shite dont change it. I like the look of them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 My last echo didn't really need a booster. No disc mount on 24, ghey. And how does the integrated chain tensioning minge work? I assume you'd fit the wheel in and stand the bike up, then as the dropouts are at an angle the frame would drop down pushing the wheel backwards and up the dropout, chain tensions up, tighten bolts and job done. I'm guessing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) Zoo looks lovely, but is a tad long and chainstays are too long gays edit: isitafox...like this? Edited November 28, 2010 by Alex Dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnyMilton Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 (edited) In fairness to Deng, the new Zoo looks quite a lot different to the '09 Piranha and the earlier Pitbulls. It sort of blends them both in a cool way, but the graphics and finish are totally new for them. The Echos look pretty similar but I think if they'd updated the graphics on those too it'd make them look a lot, lot 'newer'. I don't want to keep going on about it, but even if they made the frames look identical to the previous models but just put the Spanish BB on there it'd be a big step forward even if cosmetically it's not much. A trials manufacturer stepping out of the norm that much is a good thing, as it suggests there are companies out there willing to try new things that could benefit riders a lot. Very few of the more demanding disciplines of riding use a traditional BB like trials bikes do at the moment, so it's good that they're trying to make things better, even if it means that in the short-term it's a bit more limited. I can see the 'minor' difference in the Zoo range, but its had the same design since it first came out, (I mean where the top tube meets the seat stay(I will try and find a picture to show you what I mean)), a lot of other companies have used the similar design in the past,(koxx and onza) and they no longer use that, because it tends to be heavier, as its a little more complicated, than what you get with a simpler design. I think i just like to see companies try new things, and push the design limit, to try and make it look different and lighter. I think all Deng frames are always going to be same, because Deng has no imagination.... example, he comes out with a 24'' range and makes it the spitting image of the 26'' range! Also the BB thing is just stupid! I agree with Ali, why are companies not coming out with +30mm and lower bb's!!! GRRR! Edited November 28, 2010 by JohnyMilton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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