Heatsink Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Hi all, Hope you're all enjoying the run up to Xmas! I'm getting a new Trials bike built up, and it's back to the fundamental choice over cranks. I've naturally got a nostalgic feeling for Middleburns, but nowadays FFW cranks offer such a wide choice of styles and arguabily better bang for your buck! From a simplistic view point, a Front free wheel is a rather cool thing to show off during those inevitable discussions with the public whilst you're out riding, and is a modern day Trials dedicated component. On the other hand Middleburns are the classic Trials crank. So deep rooted in the development of Trials riding as major companies finally acknowledged Trials specific parts and frame demand. For me RS7s are wrapped up in so many fond memories of the bikes of great riders who inspired me to get into the sport. But my wallet is saying it's time to embrace the future and go FFW! Are Middleburns the Kings of Trials cranks due their history and their compelling performance today OR is it now a fact that they have lost their crown to UCI cranks? I'm feeling that the UCI cranks are muscling Middleburn's aside, so maybe you have a photo of a killer old skool bike which plays the nostalgia card for the old RS7s to win the hand! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 I still really want a pair of 'Burns just because of the time I grew up riding trials where all the cool kids had them However, the flexibility of FFW cranks means that in the present day, they're just a lot more usable for a lot more people. A set of Try-All Expert cranks, an Echo TR freewheel and whichever cheap bashring you choose is pretty much the same price as a set of Middleburn arms alone, and bearing in mind you don't have to then invest in a freehub they're just a lot more economical for a pretty solid drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupintart Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 I think Brett M found that Burns ended up being a lighter set-up. I have to find the specific post, but he actually went from FFW to Burns/King because he found it to be lighter. But with how reliable the Echo FW is nowadays, there really isn't a reason to go any other way. Also, lots of modern frames are designed to run 18t gearing so a Burns set-up may not work (without a stupid wide BB), right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 A wide BB is more needed when running Burns and a wide rear rim, is to allow them to clear the slaves on a maggy. I still run burns on my stock and my 24" but i'm liking the idea of a FFW set up, the weight is more central and it's cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 A wide BB is more needed when running Burns and a wide rear rim, is to allow them to clear the slaves on a maggy. I think Nate might have meant frames where you literally can't fit a set of Burns on unless it's the 16t bash or something. For example, an 18t freewheel barely clears on the Rockman 26" frames, so if you wanted to run a Middleburn setup with the 'normal' bash you just wouldn't be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted November 21, 2010 Report Share Posted November 21, 2010 Yeah, shifting weight towards the middle of the bike is a great benefit of FFWs. I'm still more inclined towards a freehub and fixed sprocket since my King hasn't skipped on me once but the weight savings and weight shift are a big enough benefit for me to consider such a system once every now and then. Still, I just don't trust freewheels no matter how good Echo's apparently are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 FFW Pros - lighter (despite what the above person said) - Cheaper - Better weight distribution - with a king you can get a good one... or a bad one... most freewheels have more EP than a Hope ProII for like a third of the price - Easy to replace internals on some of them Cons - Chain moves when you ride (can get trouser caught) - Some "bad batches" seem to be fixed now though I'd say FFW all the way... but if you have a decent freehub and just want new cranks then burns are still great! Cranks don't really snap now-adays which is why burns' got so big "back in the day" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupintart Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 I think Nate might have meant frames where you literally can't fit a set of Burns on unless it's the 16t bash or something. For example, an 18t freewheel barely clears on the Rockman 26" frames, so if you wanted to run a Middleburn setup with the 'normal' bash you just wouldn't be able to. Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks Mark. Many of the newer frames are geared towards equal to or smaller than 18t up front, so a Burns crank might not fit on some frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 i'm a burns fan! coupled with a pro2 for some uk stylin'... a ffw addapter to fit burns would be amazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 i'm a burns fan! coupled with a pro2 for some uk stylin'... a ffw addapter to fit burns would be amazing... +1 but with a king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy= leicester trials Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 (edited) i run my pink king with middleburns , its always been the top notch set up as much as people say front freewheel is better chrisking hubs have always been the don, just listien to the buzzzzzzz, middleburns are top cranks ive got a pair in black with the heatsink adapter if it wasnt for heatsink having the 18t adapter id have gone for some more modern cranks to get the 18t setup, another thing with middleburns there highly floggerble to a range of diffrent riding styles due to them not being trials specific. cheers snowy Edited November 22, 2010 by snowy= leicester trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Burns, cloud9 and a King on the stock. Burns, Tnn 18t and a Pro 2 on the 24", Try-all cranks and a FFW on the mod. Oh and Burns and a King on the MTB. FFW compatible Burns would be awesome but wouldn't they have to change the tooling they use as the section with the splines isn't deep enough to change to a threaded section? I'd also put more dish on them for clearance reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 With my custom mod i was able to move to burns. And have a perfect chainline Also have a huge range of BBs available as i don't need that super long axle. What i don't get is why them Expert's are £40 when they're Tryall and 7075 T6. I thought it was a typo to begin with. So that's infact a very tempting setup with the Echo seeing as people are giving it very much positive feedback. Though screw on sprockets and freewheels is still shit compared to splined and lock ring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 FFW may have more technical and price advantages... but having burns and a freehub is cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 With my custom mod i was able to move to burns. And have a perfect chainline Also have a huge range of BBs available as i don't need that super long axle. What i don't get is why them Expert's are £40 when they're Tryall and 7075 T6. I thought it was a typo to begin with. So that's infact a very tempting setup with the Echo seeing as people are giving it very much positive feedback. Though screw on sprockets and freewheels is still shit compared to splined and lock ring Theyre also 170g heavier than a pair of burns! Cant see them being weak though I would love it if middleburn could get the tooling altered to accept ffw, Im sure it would be possible as you would only need to modify the forging die by a few mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Theyre also 170g heavier than a pair of burns! Cant see them being weak though I would love it if middleburn could get the tooling altered to accept ffw, Im sure it would be possible as you would only need to modify the forging die by a few mm. Yeah but it wouldn'd just be one die, it would be a few. Depends how many stages they forge them in and tooling is bloody expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 Yeah but it wouldn'd just be one die, it would be a few. Depends how many stages they forge them in and tooling is bloody expensive! That is very true, I know the tooling costs would be phenominal which is why its unfortunately not going to happen Someone needs to develop a freewheel that will fit onto the middleburn spline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 I run burns, rear King hub, and my own custom bash Works great, but if buying a new bike, or new I'd just buy FFW. More specifically the best set-up out there....Echo SL ffw and Try-all cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burrows Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 What i don't get is why them Expert's are £40 when they're Tryall and 7075 T6. I thought it was a typo to begin with. So that's infact a very tempting setup with the Echo seeing as people are giving it very much positive feedback. Theyre also 170g heavier than a pair of burns! Cant see them being weak though I would love it if middleburn could get the tooling altered to accept ffw, Im sure it would be possible as you would only need to modify the forging die by a few mm. They aren't 7075 and infact they are exactly the same as Trialtechs. I bought them thinking they were 7075, but was later told by tarty that apparently its impossible to forge 7075 cranks the way they are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted November 22, 2010 Report Share Posted November 22, 2010 They aren't 7075 and infact they are exactly the same as Trialtechs. I bought them thinking they were 7075, but was later told by tarty that apparently its impossible to forge 7075 cranks the way they are made. Anyone want to send me one to cut up and stick on the Uni tensile tester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burrows Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Anyone want to send me one to cut up and stick on the Uni tensile tester? If I manage to break one I'll let you have the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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