Matt Vandart Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 What is the reasoning of having a long (ish) stem on stock bikes? I may be having a dumb moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 Usually makes them feel nicer on the back wheel at the expense of having them easier to pull up for bunnyhops and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 Ah I see. Is this because of arm positioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 I have always wondered why frames arn't made with a steeper head angle (longer toptube) and a shorter stem? Your arms would be in the same position so it's not like there is more chance of going over the bars, but steering would be faster and the bike wouldn't feel like it's pivoting in the middle. MTBs have catched on, just seems we are stuck in the past a little unless anyone can think of an advantage with them as they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 This is what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbon on an Orange 2 Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 I can't see how steepening the head angle any more than it already is is going to make enough of a difference to the top tube length to not require a long high rise stem? IIRC aren't high rise stems designed for the modern frames with high rise BB's to correct the geometry? We ran low/short stems on the old low BB frames. When I changed to a high rise frame I had to fit a high rise stem to correct the riding possition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Your point is valid but I am talking about stem length not rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I can't see how steepening the head angle any more than it already is is going to make enough of a difference to the top tube length to not require a long high rise stem? IIRC aren't high rise stems designed for the modern frames with high rise BB's to correct the geometry? We ran low/short stems on the old low BB frames. When I changed to a high rise frame I had to fit a high rise stem to correct the riding possition. most old low bb short bikes from the past i remember having long (120mm ish) stems on anyway. I still can't see the reasoning behind slacker headangles and long stems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I have always wondered why frames arn't made with a steeper head angle (longer toptube) and a shorter stem? Your arms would be in the same position so it's not like there is more chance of going over the bars, but steering would be faster and the bike wouldn't feel like it's pivoting in the middle. MTBs have catched on, just seems we are stuck in the past a little unless anyone can think of an advantage with them as they are? Would you say that the Born Ultimatum fits into this then as that's got a 70.5º head angle and the wheelbase looks pretty good?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 That's slacker than normal - Ali means steepening it up, which would mean you could use a shorter stem, and would possibly improve the feel of them... I can't see how steepening the head angle any more than it already is is going to make enough of a difference to the top tube length to not require a long high rise stem? If you kept the WB the same but increased the HA by 2-3° it'd make a reasonable difference to the reach of the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 If you kept the WB the same but increased the HA by 2-3° it'd make a reasonable difference to the reach of the frame. 20-30mm in fact (pretty much bang on 10mm extra reach per degree steeper head angle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 That's slacker than normal - Ali means steepening it up, which would mean you could use a shorter stem, and would possibly improve the feel of them... If you kept the WB the same but increased the HA by 2-3° it'd make a reasonable difference to the reach of the frame. Ah right, can never quite figure out how the head angle geo works! So with the Born you'd need a longer than normal stem with quite a bit of rise to counter the BB height?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I have always wondered why frames arn't made with a steeper head angle (longer toptube) and a shorter stem? Your arms would be in the same position so it's not like there is more chance of going over the bars, but steering would be faster and the bike wouldn't feel like it's pivoting in the middle. MTBs have catched on, just seems we are stuck in the past a little unless anyone can think of an advantage with them as they are? Probably a common culture thing that people are generally reluctant to major change from the norm. This makes me think back to that arguement we had about headangles ages ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 someone needs to be brave and order a Marino with a 75degree head angle and long wheelbase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 That is my plan when i have the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarathal Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 What about a 75degree short mod? I've been after a silversky geo marino for ages and I'd be willing to try it if in theory it'd feel nice (still havn't got the funds though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 good luck finding a stem to suit it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Marino can make stems and stem/bar combos but only special order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 someone needs to be brave and order a Marino with a 75degree head angle and long wheelbase Where is Canardweb when you need him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Where is Canardweb when you need him.... He probably would as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Marino can make stems and stem/bar combos but only special order. What do you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbon on an Orange 2 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 What do you mean by that? I presume he means they don't hold stock of them so you have to order one/them and then they will make them for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I think what Ross is getting at is that Marino is a custom build special order company, he doesn't really carry anything in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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