'senior Memberness' Of The Forum

[Phatmike]

Bon soir chaps!

So I'm sat in the back garden of a nice dutch house, eating some caramel dessert and watching Danny Grey's 'SM DVD', then got to thinking about who are the 'senior members' of trials - and where they can gather. I mean people like the top competition riders, the event competition organisers and sponsors, demo teams and riders.

How many of those guys use the s-m part of the forum?

Do many still ride or care about the sport? How many of you want to help out with the sport?

I suggest we invite people who can and are contributing to trials to speak in the s-m part of the forum, or even abolish it to start afresh. All I see in there is either a small group of old friends chatting about their lives, or an even older group winging about them.

There are loads of people that want to see the sport grow, but have little idea how. The competition scene needs a lot of help; almost all of the Uk's top riders that compete internationally deliberately don't attend the British nationals because they're too easy! Then when a competition is set with hard routes, people complain because they're too long: Just one example of an opportunity to make the most of by paying attention to.

Events like Tarty Days, MAD STOCK (tbc), Nass and the Red Bull Bike Battle could become so much more awesome now that trials has got such a sound base. (Not to mention TV gems like under pressure)

So who is there in the trials community that should be involved in being a 'senior member' to discuss events and promotion of the sport?

I've posted this topic in S-M chat as well, to get views from 'both sides' of the forum

Mike

[Krisboats]

So who is there in the trials community that should be involved in being a 'senior member' to discuss events and promotion of the sport?

There's only like 3 people who are frequent SM's that don't ride.

Problem is, we don't organise events in SM chat. It's all done in the news and trials chat forums for everyone to see. SM's help out purely on the forum.

[isitafox]

I was led to believe that the senior members got picked a while ago and the idea of adding more had kind of dissapeared.

Suppose unless we knew what kind of stuff goes on in SM chat us lowly members can't really comment on how useful it would be to promote certain people to said status.

[JT!]

or even abolish it

I've always been pretty critical of the SM system and even more so since I read a member who was made an SM, then asked to be demoted back to a regular member because he didn't like the "I'm better than you" atmosphere it gave. The whole SM thing should be scrapped and the SM forum should be kept for mods and admin only, seems to me most of the stuff discussed in there only effects the mods and admin anyway. The rest of the stuff seems to be nothing more than a private chat room. It also helps drive a wedge between SM's and regular members.

That's all I'll say on that as this topic isn't about that. With regards to the main point, why can't this stuff just be discussed in the news section or trials chat like has already been mentioned?

[Matt Burrows]

So I'm sat in the back garden of a nice dutch house, eating some caramel dessert and watching Danny Grey's 'SM DVD'

I'm guessing you do know that stands for summer months? Although he renamed it to Forwards

[isitafox]

I've always been pretty critical of the SM system and even more so since I read a member who was made an SM, then asked to be demoted back to a regular member because he didn't like the "I'm better than you" atmosphere it gave. The whole SM thing should be scrapped and the SM forum should be kept for mods and admin only, seems to me most of the stuff discussed in there only effects the mods and admin anyway. The rest of the stuff seems to be nothing more than a private chat room. It also helps drive a wedge between SM's and regular members.

That's all I'll say on that as this topic isn't about that. With regards to the main point, why can't this stuff just be discussed in the news section or trials chat like has already been mentioned?

I half agree with this, when I first signed up I heard that occasionally regular members got promoted to senior status when voted for by other senior members for making good posts, giving good advice and generally not being a tool, basically like promotion from new members to full status but your posts would be checked out over a longer period and only admin/mods/other seniors could vote you in. I'm still not 100% sure if it is/was done this way or if it is purely for the (not trying to sound jealous) better riders of us all.

There's no reason why senior members would need a private news or events thread anyway, surely discussing with the majority of the users on here would be more practical for feedback?? However I see no problems with the seniors having their own chat forum, although like I said before without actually seeing what gets discussed in there I can't really have any strong feelings against it!

Edited October 9, 2010 by isitafox

[Luke Rainbird]

I half agree with this, when I first signed up I heard that occasionally regular members got promoted to senior status when voted for by other senior members for making good posts, giving good advice and generally not being a tool, basically like promotion from new members to full status but your posts would be checked out over a longer period and only admin/mods/other seniors could vote you in. I'm still not 100% sure if it is/was done this way or if it is purely for the (not trying to sound jealous) better riders of us all.

This is pretty much it.

Christ, if it was only for decent riders I'd be back in NMC in no time!

There's no reason why senior members would need a private news or events thread anyway, surely discussing with the majority of the users on here would be more practical for feedback?? However I see no problems with the seniors having their own chat forum, although like I said before without actually seeing what gets discussed in there I can't really have any strong feelings against it!

...and this is why the SM chat section is barely ever used. Unless there's an idea of a change that may be made to the forum, which gets a brief look in by the SMs and is then discussed in the main forum anyway.

If you look on most of the forum, a thread tends to fall off the first page in a day or so. SMC currently has year-old threads on the first page

The way I see it (and saw it before I was made an SM, for that matter...) is that if you're made an SM it just shows you've got your head screwed on enough when it comes to it, are in a position where you are able to offer advice to other members and give a slightly more mature opinion on ideas/concepts to do with the general running of the forum.

If you were hoping to nominate yourself for SMship you'll be pleased to know that It's nothing to do with how long you've been riding/online for, or how good you are on a bike, it's purely to do with how good you are at sucking dick...

[Mark W]

I heard that occasionally regular members got promoted to senior status when voted for by other senior members

They do. It's no coincidence though that almost all the SMs on the forum were people who were all pretty regular on the forum years ago when it was pretty small. One of the most popular threads in there is the 'what are you up to now?' thread which is fairly self-explanatory.

[Al_Fel]

I think its a good thing. It gives people something to aim for.

[Joe Papasnap Maher]

IM A SENIOR MEMBER!! YOUR ALL NEWBS!!

IF YOUR NOT AN SM YOU FAIL AT LIFE!!!

BAN MEEE!!

[Christophe']

Its easy Mike, you have to be obsessed with writing 4 paragraph replies, never have a strong opinion on anything that may slightly offend anyone.

Be way too serious/enthusiastic about what is essentialy a bit of a laugh.

Never say anything that might make you look bad and generaly be realy " positive " about stuff even when you dont want to be.

Oh, also you have to be nothing like you are in real life and be really worried about what people may think about you.

Discovering normal mountainbikes might give you points now too.

[PaRtZ]

Ive always wondered why I havent been a senior member because of my age and experiance (been doing this for 9 years now!) and how I wanted to be in the cool gang that is SM. But recently as you've pointed out Mike, I dont really have my finger on the pulse with the new school stuff. I would really like to start helping out again but travelling anywhere is sucking big time being a student and currently on 'vacation' on the IOW. I can't afford to travel to competitions or help with demo's as Ive never been asked to do demos except for woodfest. Maybe if I did a whole year of UK nationals, I might win again?

Dunno mike, Id like to help with the trials world but as I currently stand Im not very promoting of the sport.

[JT!]

There's no reason why senior members would need a private news or events thread anyway, surely discussing with the majority of the users on here would be more practical for feedback??

Exactly. There's no real need for it.

SM get nominated by other SM's, we might see a couple of new ones per year. There's no real criteria set in stone there's just a thread where people nominate others.

However I see no problems with the seniors having their own chat forum, although like I said before without actually seeing what gets discussed in there I can't really have any strong feelings against it!

The problem is it drives a wedge between them and regular members. You can see it all over the forum. Avatar trends, inside jokes (tarty disount, SM porn), screenshots of Sm chat with parts blurred out and at one point there was actually a SM party. On the surface it appears harmless, but on the whole it's not doing the forums atmosphere any good. Normally that wouldn't be an issue if SM chat was serving a purpose, but it's not.

[Krisboats]

Exactly. There's no real need for it.

The problem is it drives a wedge between them and regular members. You can see it all over the forum. Avatar trends, inside jokes (tarty disount, SM porn), screenshots of Sm chat with parts blurred out and at one point there was actually a SM party. On the surface it appears harmless, but on the whole it's not doing the forums atmosphere any good. Normally that wouldn't be an issue if SM chat was serving a purpose, but it's not.

There are actually useful things in there that aren't kept in the main forum. The other things happen with different groups in the main forum too, it's not isolated specifically to senior members.

[Mark W]

Avatar trends,

Not exclusive to Senior Members.

inside jokes (tarty disount, SM porn)

Not exclusive to Senior Members (in that every 'group' on here has inside jokes), but also made - I think in both cases of those - for when you were complaining about the exact same thing.

at one point there was actually a SM party.

Because almost all of the SMs know each other! How is that hard to understand? TF is the one place where all people involved actually get together, so the party was organised on here. How is that "driving a wedge" between people? Someone tried starting a topic in Chit chat about Wigan (or someone) having a house party - are you going to complain about Wigan and his friends having a party together because it's splitting everyone apart?

On the surface it appears harmless, but on the whole it's not doing the forums atmosphere any good. Normally that wouldn't be an issue if SM chat was serving a purpose, but it's not.

In that you don't know the content of the threads in there, how do you know it isn't? As a moderator, I've had a lot of help dealing with things on here from things that people have put in there. Same goes for validation and devalidation. The 'problems' you're talking about are based on absolutely nothing at all.

[JT!]

There are actually useful things in there that aren't kept in the main forum. The other things happen with different groups in the main forum too, it's not isolated specifically to senior members.

I was actually going to make myself clear about that but forgot. I do know that there is important topics in there that serve no purpose to members as they may be about moderating functions etc. But they serve no purpose to SM's either. So It does make SM chat unnecessary. But It makes Mod Chat very necessary.

[Mark W]

As a moderator, I've had a lot of help dealing with things on here from things that people have put in there.

...as I said.

[JT!]

Before I reply I need a disclaimer. I am not personally bothered by any of the points I made personally, I'm just pointing out possible reasons why some people have said there's a divide and that bothers them.

Not exclusive to Senior Members.

Not exclusive to Senior Members (in that every 'group' on here has inside jokes), but also made - I think in both cases of those - for when you were complaining about the exact same thing.

But TF isn't the proprietor to other groups, but is to the SM's. Admins / mods has no control over who's friends and no real control over TF's inside jokes. But things like Tarty SM discount is something that exclusively came out of SM chat. I'm not taking about inside jokes between friends.

I don't really understand what you mean with regards to the 2nd part. Are you saying that those jokes were created because of my complaining?

Because almost all of the SMs know each other! How is that hard to understand? TF is the one place where all people involved actually get together, so the party was organised on here. How is that "driving a wedge" between people? Someone tried starting a topic in Chit chat about Wigan (or someone) having a house party - are you going to complain about Wigan and his friends having a party together because it's splitting everyone apart?

Again, I'm taking about SMs and you keep comparing that to regular users. There's a difference as TF has set up this SM system. I was using it as another example of a divide because it was a SM party. Not a trials rider party, or a TF member party. How many regular members were at that party just out of curiosity?

In that you don't know the content of the threads in there, how do you know it isn't? As a moderator, I've had a lot of help dealing with things on here from things that people have put in there. Same goes for validation and devalidation. The 'problems' you're talking about are based on absolutely nothing at all.

I have a good general idea of what the content is from previous topics, but yeah I agree I don't know as it's a hidden forum.

At the end of the day you can't deny there was a guy who was made (or was going to be made) an SM and he turned it down because of reasons I mentioned above. Now that's coming from someone who had to oppotunity to be an SM. Imagine how the regular members feel.

...as I said.

I can't see how you'd need help validating people when we have an automated system in place. I can understand needing help with regards to devalidation, but is that really an issue where'd you'd need to make a topic or couldn't discuss with the other mods alone?

Edited October 9, 2010 by JT!

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

I was going to give you a serious reply, but that would encourage the situation.

SM chat is worth keeping, purely as a paltform to discuss what a tool you can be.

[F-Stop Junkie]

Imagine how the regular members feel.

I'm pretty sure they don't care.

[Mark W]

But TF isn't the proprietor to other groups, but is to the SM's. Admins / mods has no control over who's friends and no real control over TF's inside jokes. But things like Tarty SM discount is something that exclusively came out of SM chat. I'm not taking about inside jokes between friends. I don't really understand what you mean with regards to the 2nd part. Are you saying that those jokes were created because of my complaining?

Which they were. The SM discount thing was a joke that was created in a thread where you were doing exactly what you're doing now.

Again, I'm taking about SMs and you keep comparing that to regular users. There's a difference as TF has set up this SM system. I was using it as another example of a divide because it was a SM party. Not a trials rider party, or a TF member party. How many regular members were at that party just out of curiosity?

I can't really explain it in any simpler terms than I already have done, so I can't really be bothered even trying. If you don't get that it's just an easy place to organise and get in touch with like-minded friends then you've clearly got something missing in your head. I think there were 3-4 'regular' members there.

I have a good general idea of what the content is from previous topics, but yeah I agree I don't know as it's a hidden forum.

At the end of the day you can't deny there was a guy who was made (or was going to be made) an SM and he turned it down because of reasons I mentioned above. Now that's coming from someone who had to oppotunity to be an SM. Imagine how the regular members feel.

Ben Rowlands, about 5-6 years ago.

I'd imagine the vast majority of members don't really care. If you look back at every thread about this sort of thing, it's usually just you complaining about it, which is why your 'disclaimer' is even more of a joke in that you clearly do care about it, hence you always make these sorts of posts.

I can't see how you'd need help validating people when we have an automated system in place. I can understand needing help with regards to devalidation, but is that really an issue where'd you'd need to make a topic or couldn't discuss with the other mods alone?

They can still mention people there who don't necessarily have friends on here already to get them validated. They also help out with other stuff too, but again I can't really be bothered going to the trouble of fully explaining things to you because it's not going to change your attitude towards it at all.

[isitafox]

This is pretty much it.

Christ, if it was only for decent riders I'd be back in NMC in no time!

...and this is why the SM chat section is barely ever used. Unless there's an idea of a change that may be made to the forum, which gets a brief look in by the SMs and is then discussed in the main forum anyway.

If you look on most of the forum, a thread tends to fall off the first page in a day or so. SMC currently has year-old threads on the first page

The way I see it (and saw it before I was made an SM, for that matter...) is that if you're made an SM it just shows you've got your head screwed on enough when it comes to it, are in a position where you are able to offer advice to other members and give a slightly more mature opinion on ideas/concepts to do with the general running of the forum.

If you were hoping to nominate yourself for SMship you'll be pleased to know that It's nothing to do with how long you've been riding/online for, or how good you are on a bike, it's purely to do with how good you are at sucking dick...

In that case have I told you how lovely your avatar pic is??

[Luke Rainbird]

Time to get rid of the Ricky Martin then I think! Best go check the "SMs are the only people allowed to change their avatar" thread and see what I'm allowed this time...

[MadManMike]

How did I know this topic would be full of JT's criticisms of the SM area...

Most people that are jealous about not being in there don't winge about the system

[eskimo]

Be cool if something becomes of this topic.