Greetings Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 I've come to a conclusion recently, wonder what you'll think about it. Even today most mods have around 55mm bb rise. This was a "standard" set many years ago to make the bikes similar in feel to stock bikes which at that time had 0-20mm rise. It allowed for the bar height between the two to be roughly the same while maitaining a comfortable position. The stock bikes have progressed - we've found that playing around with the bb height, having a longer and higher stem can really make a big difference. At the moment most stock frames probably have around +40-45mm rise on average. So what about mods? They're still based around the very old and outdated concept. Very few manufacturers have tried making a high bb mod with +70 or even +85 rise. I had a go on one of these bikes not so long ago (some white/silver/pink Koxx) and as much as I don't enjoy mods, this bike felt superb. It felt like a proper genuine trials bike, not a scooter. What do you think? Isn't it time for the market to embrace the change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD Posted September 10, 2010 Report Share Posted September 10, 2010 my meta mod is +55, but it feels very nice! my next bike will for sure have over +70 bb though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence--Trials Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 I've gone and got the BB rise from every mod on tarty and the average is 67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Stock seems to go up and down every year though. I'd be interested in trying a super high bb mod. But i like a tall stem anyway so i would need and even taller one, haha. I've not owned enough extremely different mods to give any decent answer. I've always found though, long mods are fun but really don't benefit, that's all i'm to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 The only +55 or +50 models on our site are older models from manufacturers. Pretty much every new frame we get now is at least +70 just because people seem to just buy frames based on how high the BB is now. + 85 - ii + 80 - iiiiii + 75 - iiii + 70 - iii + 65 - i + 60 - iii + 55 - iiiii + 50 - ii 3 of the +55 frames are all Deng models too - just seems that for 2009-2010 that was what Deng thought was best, although we'll see on the new frames how that changes I suppose. Would've thought there would've been at least one high BB frame in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskooltrials Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 I'm not to sure about BB height as i haven't tried anything with more than +55,but am i right in thinking that the new higher BB frames are aimed at a more TGS style of riding as opposed to a more spinny streety type of riding? What i'd like to try is a mod with super short chainstays, maybe 300mm or as close to that as possible, and then take the 50-70 mm from there and stick it on the front end so i end up with a longer reach and a frame that fits me ? Maybe something like this Wheelbase: 1020mm Chainstay Length: 300mm BB Rise: 55mm Head Angle: 72 degrees Centre of BB shell to top centre of head tube: 680mm(approximately) I'm 6'3'' and i think that this geo would suit me and my riding style better than anything that i could buy at the moment? I'm currently building a 09 echo team frame that i got dirt cheap from ebay but if it doesn't work out for me i was considering sending that geo to Marino and seeing what he can do? Anyone agree with me or am i deluded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Any shorter than 350mm feels too short! Just means it's really difficult to put down power for gaps and ups without it just feeling like it's going to loop out. You need to have something to 'push' against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mods Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Are the new deng models going to be +70 bb? That would be quite a change for them. I cant imagine how a +85 mod would feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Sort of like this: High BB's all well and good as long as you balance it out with a suitable bar height. High BB with a low front end really doesn't feel good. I'm a fan of +55 BBs, and loved my Lynx because of it, but Adam's FANS with a Try-All mahoosive stem and some carbon risers (with a couple of stackers) feels nice and balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Really there's only so high you need a bottom bracket, because you can change the feel of the frame just by changing the stem height. 80 would make sense to be as far as you need to go with bb height. Maybe even 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskooltrials Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Any shorter than 350mm feels too short! Just means it's really difficult to put down power for gaps and ups without it just feeling like it's going to loop out. You need to have something to 'push' against. I see what you mean sort of, i was hoping that the longer front end would help to control it though? I take it that you have ridden some sort of prototype with shorter than 350mm cs then? I think for the price of a Marino frame its worth trying even if it turns out to be really nasty, i think id regret not trying it once i get to old and decrepit to ride trials (some days i already feel like this) and as much as i value your opinion i still may go ahead with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 If a certain source keeps to his word from a few months ago on a certain frame then we'll once again be having lots of 1045mm 375mm +55mm all over the place again. I think you can guess what that is! Should be a nice alternative to the super short nippy +80 frames these days! I wouldn't mind trying a +80 on a ride sometime to see how different it feels to the mod frames of old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Is it.... ...CLS designing a frame with onza? That will be the same geo as the everyone's favourite python? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Any shorter than 350mm feels too short! Just means it's really difficult to put down power for gaps and ups without it just feeling like it's going to loop out. You need to have something to 'push' against. I think you'll probably be right - but I'd certainly like a go on one. I think a new technique would develop, rather than just not being able to gap. Maybe it'd become a "in the position for a pinch gap, but instead of pinching roll it so you're really ramming it back in to the side of the wall, rather than the corner" type thing. I dunno - but if I could have one without having to pay for all the prototyping etc, I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 CLS designing a frame with onza? They had a super sexy prototype didnt they? what happened to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 No doubt they've just kept quiet about it. There's no more 'new products from Onza' thread either so there's nowhere to post news. It'll turn up next year, probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 Why the hell they dont just make 05 pythons again i dont know, best. frame. EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 I see what you mean sort of, i was hoping that the longer front end would help to control it though? It's pretty much just dictated by the CS length though, which is the issue with it. I rode a T-Lite Long proto type thing that I think was 350mm rear end with a pretty long front end and it just felt super loopy all the time just because the rear was so short on it. I'm a bit shorter than you (about an inch or two) and I've always found something with Lynx-esque geometry feels roomy enough as long as you put a 185 x 40 sorta stem on there. I basically used the same T-Master geo stem for about 6 years simply because it always felt 'right'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted September 11, 2010 Report Share Posted September 11, 2010 I am concerned that ECho is going to introduce some mods with High BB....soo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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