Koxx Frames

[Matt Vandart]

Why are they so ridiculously priced?

It is mental really.

Someone please at least attempt to justify this too me so i don't think that people are retards for paying such prices.

[Mark W]

Custom tubing. More expensive material than other frames. More CNC'd parts. Higher performance.

[dannytrialskid]

Custom tubing. More expensive material than other frames. More CNC'd parts. Higher performance.

More prone to snapping though right, because of the thin tubing... this is what I've been told, not coming from my experience!

[Mark W]

Not necessarily. A bike with thicker tubing that's not designed well will generally snap more easily than a bike with thinner tubing that's designed better. If you batter the shit out of it and put a million dents up the downtube it's going to break (and be more susceptible to dents), but the whole point of the Sky frames is that they're not made for that sort of riding.

People seem to have this idea that frames over a certain price should never break. That's not the case at all. In much the same way that my Rover that I paid £600 for can handle my drive to work over speed bumps, pot holes, haggard motorway surfaces and so on, whereas if I tried doing it in a £million F1 car it'd annihilate it. You aren't paying more money because it's indestructible.

[dannytrialskid]

Not necessarily. A bike with thicker tubing that's not designed well will generally snap more easily than a bike with thinner tubing that's designed better. If you batter the shit out of it and put a million dents up the downtube it's going to break (and be more susceptible to dents), but the whole point of the Sky frames is that they're not made for that sort of riding.

Made for the likes of Benito Ros

[LukasMcNeal]

The silver sky £0.8 per mm!

Edited September 6, 2010 by LukasMcNeal

[Laurence--Trials]

Seeing as the topic is about koxx frames i may as well ask: Why the f**k does the white sky have such long stays?

[Matt Vandart]

Not necessarily. A bike with thicker tubing that's not designed well will generally snap more easily than a bike with thinner tubing that's designed better. If you batter the shit out of it and put a million dents up the downtube it's going to break (and be more susceptible to dents), but the whole point of the Sky frames is that they're not made for that sort of riding.

People seem to have this idea that frames over a certain price should never break. That's not the case at all. In much the same way that my Rover that I paid £600 for can handle my drive to work over speed bumps, pot holes, haggard motorway surfaces and so on, whereas if I tried doing it in a £million F1 car it'd annihilate it. You aren't paying more money because it's indestructible.

Dude i get what your saying here but there is no way the custom tubing and cnc work justifies the 260% + price difference of a reasonably priced frame.

I have had custom tubing made before, not for making trials frames, and after the initial capital, the tubing itself is not so expensive. I suppose you can take into account the number of real sales that will come from this (low) and such the 'payback' on the initial investment but surely if they were priced more realistically, more would sell and the initial capital would soon be recouped if you get me, I'm a bit tired atm.

I think it may be a big jape.

[dannytrialskid]

Dude i get what your saying here but there is no way the custom tubing and cnc work justifies the 260% + price difference of a reasonably priced frame.

I have had custom tubing made before, not for making trials frames, and after the initial capital, the tubing itself is not so expensive. I suppose you can take into account the number of real sales that will come from this (low) and such the 'payback' on the initial investment but surely if they were priced more realistically, more would sell and the initial capital would soon be recouped if you get me, I'm a bit tired atm.

I think it may be a big jape.

Depends how much it costs them to get the materials.

[Matt Vandart]

Read again you sponge.

[Mark W]

I don't know when you were doing your work, but material prices aren't exactly cheap at the moment, and the currency exchange rates mean the consumer does get slightly pwned. It also massively depends on the volume of product you're making too. I'm not entirely sure that Koxx could make them much cheaper and actually make it viable for them or for shops.

What would you consider to be a 'reasonably priced frame', incidentally?

EDIT: It's not just custom tubing, the actual material itself costs more than the material used by other manufacturers. Not matter how much you buy of that or how long-term you look at it, that's always going to raise the price tag of a frame. If you want direct proof of that within one company's own range, look at the Rockman frames. Maladie -> Manus is £399 to £419, then the Bjorn frame which is made out of Scandium is £599.

[Laurence--Trials]

Depends how much it costs them to get the materials.

Its a koxx specialised material too! so its probably not cheep to buy.

EDIT: while i'm asking questions i don't serpose koxx have any proto types out or planning to make some more frames are they?

Edited September 6, 2010 by Laurence--Trials

[Zoo!Man]

You aren't paying more money because it's indestructible.

And, in my opinion, that IS a shame.

[dannytrialskid]

Read again you sponge.

material prices aren't exactly cheap at the moment

Its a koxx specialised material too! so its probably not cheep to buy.

I'm not the sponge here!

[Mark W]

Just for clarity too, you're obviously paying for the Koxx name in just the same way that you do with Monty, but the quality of Koxx frames is massively, massively better than Monty frames...

[modifiedridah2k9]

Not necessarily. A bike with thicker tubing that's not designed well will generally snap more easily than a bike with thinner tubing that's designed better. If you batter the shit out of it and put a million dents up the downtube it's going to break (and be more susceptible to dents), but the whole point of the Sky frames is that they're not made for that sort of riding.

People seem to have this idea that frames over a certain price should never break. That's not the case at all. In much the same way that my Rover that I paid £600 for can handle my drive to work over speed bumps, pot holes, haggard motorway surfaces and so on, whereas if I tried doing it in a £million F1 car it'd annihilate it. You aren't paying more money because it's indestructible.

But the K-ALONE website says that it is strictly for compitition and will not tolerate badly timed riding etc.

They are over priced for a bike that will snap within weeks of riding (unless your really smooth and good)

right?

[Laurence--Trials]

Maladie -> Manus is £399 to £419, then the Bjorn frame which is made out of Scandium is £599.

Isn't that a bad example though? I've only herd bad things about the maladie..

[modifiedridah2k9]

Just for clarity too, you're obviously paying for the Koxx name in just the same way that you do with Monty, but the quality of Koxx frames is massively, massively better than Monty frames...

Don't mean to sound rude but in what ways are koxx massivly better than monty? Except for shape lol. And while on the topic of overpriced frames... is it true that a mod rocman is a horrible ride?

[Zoo!Man]

Just for clarity too, you're obviously paying for the Koxx name in just the same way that you do with Monty, but the quality of Koxx frames is massively, massively better than Monty frames...

Yes that guys is a thing to bear in mind. Although I'm Spanish, I know Monty is an expensive, heavy and (as majority of people says) ugly make. Furthermore, price of Monty components in UK is stupidly more expensive than here in Spain, where they aren't even a bargain.

[3dd]

Its a koxx specialised material too! so its probably not cheep to buy.

EDIT: while i'm asking questions i don't serpose koxx have any proto types out or planning to make some more frames are they?

That would actualy quite interesting to know. I was wondering too!

[Matt Vandart]

I would class a reasonably priced frame at £350 - £400 max.

I am aware of raw material prices at the moment they have been going mental for the last 2-3 years. I'm putting all mine into Silver atm (Better investment than gold by the way) and as said volume of sales is definitely an issue.

Who can really afford a £850 frame really?

Your car cost less ffs.

If it is a genuine manufacturing reason, which I doubt, then the problem is self feeding.

People cant afford/refuse to pay £xxxxx for a frame so projected sales are low, making capital investment/sales very unfavourable.

The only way to bring the ratio to a better state of affairs is with more sales which are subject to the above highlighted factors which wont change without dropping the price which cant happen because of the capital cost and the shareholders expectations etc........

Just read Koxxs' guff on K-Alone seems that although the description is obviously vague the material is not a very good choice for a bike which will be subject to alot of streching and compressing flexing etc.

and tensile strength is all very well but not the be all and end all for such an application.

[6ft-midget]

I think the point is that if you're a smooth and light rider, then the more high performance frames will be justifiable.

If you're a basher however then you'll struggle to find an 'indestructable' frame.

[Laurence--Trials]

Another question..

If material price is so high then why has the price of all the koxx bikes (and frames??) been lowered recently?

[modifiedridah2k9]

Another question..

If material price is so high then why has the price of all the koxx bikes (and frames??) been lowered recently?

Because they arent making enough sales as the prices were so high? Just a guess, please correct me if wrong

[Mark W]

People seem to have this idea that frames over a certain price should never break. That's not the case at all. In much the same way that my Rover that I paid £600 for can handle my drive to work over speed bumps, pot holes, haggard motorway surfaces and so on, whereas if I tried doing it in a £million F1 car it'd annihilate it. You aren't paying more money because it's indestructible.

They are over priced for a bike that will snap within weeks of riding (unless your really smooth and good)

right?

I can't state it any more explicitly than that. I genuinely can't. Notice how many of the riders who qualified for the finals in the UCI Worlds last weekend were riding Koxx frames. They're designed for top level comp riding, although that isn't and doesn't stop 'normal' riders who can afford them riding them too. I know of quite a few people in the UK and further afield who've bought either the frames or full bikes off us and have found them to last well for them primarily because they don't just tank them into walls the whole time. People have a massively unrealistic expectation of what trials frame can and will take, and what they should be designed to take. NO frame is designed to be hit into walls, irrespective of it's weight or price tag.

Don't mean to sound rude but in what ways are koxx massivly better than monty? Except for shape lol. And while on the topic of overpriced frames... is it true that a mod rocman is a horrible ride?

To just use two photos as examples:

Massive, ugly, plate dropouts and not particularly nice welding.

Neat, compact CNC'd dropouts with nicely made CNC'd yokes.

That's just one feature of those bikes, and the Koxx frame is clearly better by a significant margin.

Regarding the Rockman mods - no, that isn't true.

If material price is so high then why has the price of all the koxx bikes (and frames??) been lowered recently?

So they can sell more of them?