shagadelic Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I knew from before that magura hs brakes should not use dot oil, but water? I saw it here http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=146765&st=0 Until now i've never seen any brake working with water, what about mineral deposits due to water? what about the seals? Although heating might not be a problem, it's sound really weird for me. Maybe its wrong, but i though that they should run on mineral oil. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavens Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Well... HS33 has 5years warranty.... and there have write in Manual > NEVER USE WATER... Water dont preserve the internal cables... and have a lot things mixed... (or you will use Destilled water?) like fluor, minerals, ... People that I know use another Oils Mineral like But Royal Magura Oil isnt expensive.... dont have sence buy something like $80... and no wanna buy OIL from $20... for make some economy, for lose 5 years warranty... >.< is like buy bike Trial from $1300, and no use Helmet from $40 =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Well... HS33 has 5years warranty.... and there have write in Manual > NEVER USE WATER... Water dont preserve the internal cables... and have a lot things mixed... (or you will use Destilled water?) like fluor, minerals, ... People that I know use another Oils Mineral like But Royal Magura Oil isnt expensive.... dont have sence buy something like $80... and no wanna buy OIL from $20... for make some economy, for lose 5 years warranty... >.< is like buy bike Trial from $1300, and no use Helmet from $40 =P I'm relieved to know that water is not a "normal" thing, just a cheap (or really expensive) dumb thing to do to a brake. I think that mineral oil should include the normal mineral oil used for example on piston engines or not? On rim brakes oil temperature is not a issue, so engine oil should do the job and preserve warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rab shropshire Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I use water in my magura, it gives the lever a much nicer feel and quicker response, lots of people have used water for years with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Hi, I made that video, I know things about these brakes and how they perform with water. You may as well not water bleed your brake if it's in warranty, but a lot of people don't mind and do it anyway. Common misconception is there is shit in a brake that will rust. It's not true, mine works fine water bled, all of mine have. Some people's levers develop a stiff master cylinder. This is rectified by pulling it out and lubricating it underneath that seal. Some people never have this happen to them either. Also, if you use antifreeze in there, it also won't destroy the seals. Otherwise my brake would be completely knackered. Water bleed if you like, it's good because it's free, it's easy, it won't kill your brake, and it can produce a quicker lever feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 I use water in my magura, it gives the lever a much nicer feel and quicker response, lots of people have used water for years with no problems Sorry about saying this, but because it works doesn't mean it's good and because others do doesn't mean we should do. I'm into motorcycle racing and i know what is to bleed the brake between rounds because of oil vapor created with oil heating, i couldn't imagine that on water, boiling at 100ºC. Not to talk about the seals and the friction of brake pistons. I'm sorry about all this, but i got really shocked with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Are you on about how disc brakes heat up loads when used? Disc brakes have a reservoir to allow oil expansion. Maguras don't have this because they don't need it. Thus, water bleeding will work fine from that angle as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rab shropshire Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 in a trials bike the fluid barely heats up if at all, so its totally fine. If im honest i have had more problems with using mineral oil than i have with water. but like everything else it just down to personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staryarm69 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 i also use water and no problems at all it feels better and my wheel never slips like it did with oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavens Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 well.. about feeling... my Old Brake ECHO I use water... really is better feeling... The only problem was the brakes was leaking... and I was tired buy new oils.. and try with water... because when leak.. dirt wall rim when I use OIL... because effect in brake system efficiency.... and need massive clean... for back to brake again... I fall once time for this ¬¬ When I use water.. works good for couple hours... after all leak on rim... the good was.. I didn't have to clean the entire wheel.. just wait dry =D use or no use... is personal... I hope dont need use this now =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Echo brakes are well known for leaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemali Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 LHM+ it is cheap it will not eat stuffing box and it have the same properties as royal blood ... if you are a student and don't have money it is the best choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I think Heavens said everything: "is like buy bike Trial from $1300, and no use Helmet from $40 =P " I'm sure that it breaks the brake, might be slowly but it surely breaks, even if performance might be the same there are lubricant issues, corrosion and seal issues due to its viscosity and composition. On the topic i linked on the first post, everybody made that procedure feel like it's normal and the right one, i almost believed that it could be OK, just make sure newbies (like me) don't do that kind of thing thinking that's ok. I'll never drop water on a magura, but each one should care about their things the way they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Socks Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 Hi, I don't know what your background is but there are a lot of people on this forum who have been doing trials for a long time and have been using water in there Magies for a long time with no bad effects. You've said "is like buy bike Trial from $1300, and no use Helmet from $40" What gets me even more is that people take said bike and take an angle grinder to it The idea of grinding a perfectly good rim, removing material so reducing the life of the component seems wrong to me but lots of people swear by the performance improvement, so it is up to them. You won't use water in your brakes fine, that's up to you, but I don't think that you can come on here sounding off at people who do. P.s. I have one brake with water in and one with oil I'm just indecisive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I'm sorry about all this, but i got really shocked with it. All I can say is 'try it'. Find someone with a good water bleed and compare it to a standard oil bleed and you'll be surprised at the difference in lever feel. As I've said many times before I've run pure tap water in my Magura's for the past 8+ years and have never had a problem with leaks, corrosion or my knee falling off. What I have had is a far lighter lever feel and solid braking. The whole warranty thing doesn't really mean anything in my book. Magura know their seals will last for 5 years using oil. Good. if you are a student and don't have money it is the best choice Except water . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 You guys are taking it to the wrong way, i'm not trying to harm anyone here. Each one is free to do what they want to. In my opinion is just like using alcohol fuel instead of gasoline, or cooking oil instead of diesel. I'm happy to hear that magura brakes are that reliable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 In my opinion is just like using alcohol fuel instead of gasoline, or cooking oil instead of diesel. An attempt to preserve the amount of oil we've got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxRogers Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I'm sure that it breaks the brake, might be slowly but it surely breaks, even if performance might be the same there are lubricant issues, corrosion and seal issues due to its viscosity and composition. I'm running the old style Magura's from 2002 and mine have been fine? Everything is original, no problems at all, so I think you're slightly wrong there. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavens Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 You won't use water in your brakes fine, that's up to you, but I don't think that you can come on here sounding off at people who do. sounding off? pfff I just say the Good and Bads... for people that not know about... Know everything about this... I dont say is wrong.. or is right... just the true... Like I told... I use in Echo... feeling was good.... but I already was problem with brakes and cannot continue use like this... I told after... is personal.. use or not use... if you (or anyelse more) understand me wrong.... really sorry... no was my intention. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 You guys are taking it to the wrong way, i'm not trying to harm anyone here. Each one is free to do what they want to. In my opinion is just like using alcohol fuel instead of gasoline, or cooking oil instead of diesel. I'm happy to hear that magura brakes are that reliable! The situations aren't anything alike at all. Water works fine in brakes, and provides a much better lever feel than almost any oil out there. If you're particularly concerned about lubricating seals and so on, add a bit of anti-freeze to it. It's really not a problem. It's not going to boil. It's not going to "rust" your brakes hoses (in that there's nothing to rust). If you don't want to use it then that's fine, but simply not wanting to doesn't really give you carte blanche to just fabricate reasons for not using them. Obviously it invalidates your warranty, but you're unlikely to need that warranty as a result of leaking. Almost every Magura that gets warrantied is usually because the lever body has cracked or broken in some way, not because they're leaking. i couldn't imagine that on water, boiling at 100ºC. Good thing you don't need to then in that you're barely going to heat the water/oil in your Magura at all then, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I'm not getting futher into this topic, i was just trying to say it might not be the best option and i don't know why but magura seems to agree with me. Just to you guys thing about it, go to a car open the radiator cap and look inside, now imagine pistons working on walls like that. (And it uses anti-freeze) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 I'm not getting futher into this topic, i was just trying to say it might not be the best option and i don't know why but magura seems to agree with me. Just to you guys thing about it, go to a car open the radiator cap and look inside, now imagine pistons working on walls like that. (And it uses anti-freeze) Think i'd still trust the years of experience from the riders that have commented before you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 all valid points, but I pretty much CAN"T use mineral fluid because I have stupid puny arms that get arm pump after 10 seconds of braking. With Water the lighter lever action greatly reduces the arm pump (although not as much as a vee brake does). I also can't think of single rider in the world top 10 who uses mineral oil in their brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4stars Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) I'm not getting futher into this topic, i was just trying to say it might not be the best option and i don't know why but magura seems to agree with me. Just to you guys thing about it, go to a car open the radiator cap and look inside, now imagine pistons working on walls like that. (And it uses anti-freeze) always shocked at how the advice of some of the most knowledgeable riders up and down the uk (and abroad) is ignored with this same topic magura may agree with you....makes sence for them to recommend oil of a sort rather than promote the idea of water at the risk of the odd (and somewhat rare) problem of a leak. your theories may be right, but at the end of the day it is proven to work year in, year out....so in practice, who cares? (magura also supplies black pads - enough said!) ive said it so many times before....its a £60 brake when brand new, half that when used, why get so worried about ruining it? so a seal somehow goes in a year of riding with water and you need to buy a new one...i can assure you (essentially) £5 a month cost of having a water bleed is more than worth it for the difference in feel better feel - faster progression - more confidence - more fun - less chance of injury (a better rear brake has saved my ass a number of times) its a no brainer EDIT: think about it - the number of items that pump air/water that dont use an oil based lubricant to maintain seals? Edited June 22, 2010 by chris4stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagadelic Posted June 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 I got the idea. I think i sayd nothing wrong about it and the conclusion i get is that is all about a ratio between loss and gain. Some think the loss is less than the gain, some don't. At the end it's all about a personal choice. I'll get my first magura set in a few days and it will run oil. Thanks for all reply's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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