Double Disc, Double Hs33, Or Disc Front Hs33 Rear?

[JackZOO!]

Hey forum,

just wanted to know as many costs and benefits of having either double disc, double hs33 or disc front and hs33 rear?

btw i will be upgrading to a frame with double disc if i am convinced, i currently ride natural and street trials and prefer shorter frames...

I am hoping to ride more street trials and the hbtc (hampshire bike trial club) which provides natural comps is ending this year so i will be riding crates/ street MAINLY

[Skoze]

Don't disregard vee's, i'd never run anything on the rear (yes, i have used HS33s and discs too)

As for front, i loved my front vee but i was more than happy with my mono trial, only swapped the brake over to shed some weight.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Skoze

[Luke Rainbird]

Skoze knows where it's at - Dual vees are the dog's, front disc is acceptable in some social circles.

[aener]

Obviously there's price differences - but each can be more expensive than the other if you get the best there is. E.g. Vees can be the cheapest, but you could also set up Avid Ultimate arms and lever with expensive cables, pads and CNC backings, and adaptors if you have a 4bolt frame... They can get VERY expensive.

Maguras: Quite often an on-off brake, very little modulation. Great for TGS/natural riding, but anything that wants feathering brakes, like manuals etc. will often suffer from a break like this. If you bleed them with water, they can freeze in the winter, which can pop hoses - but mix the water with a bit of anti-freeze and it won't.

Good: Very powerful - will stop you dead. Very standardised, so if it brakes mid-ride, someone there might have spair bits. Once set up right - it'll not change untill the pads wear down - so you can put faith in it working. Have a TPA, so if you want a small adjustment, you don't need to move it about. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Hoses can pop, crossovers break, need bleeding every so often, can be irritating to set up.

Vees: Don't listen to anyone who says Vees aren't as good as hydraulics. A well set up vee can happily outperform a HS33 - the trouble lies in most people not being able to set them up correctly. Usually on streety bikes. Still got good bite and hold, but more easily feathered, and so better for manuals etc. Quite light, but very few frames come with vee mounts, so adaptors are needed.

Good: Easier to feather. Just as powerful as maguras. Barrel adjuster on lever for small adjustments. Very light on bikes with vee mounts. Spare cables can be gotten from the likes of Tesco, Wilko's, halfords, and any bike shop, if it breaks mid-ride. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Most people can't set them up well enough for trials use. Not many vee specific pads, so you almost always have to glue material in to backings. Very few frames have mounts, so have to use adaptors.

At this point, I feel I should do pro's/con's of grinds/smooth/tarred rims.

Smooth: Left as you got it from the factory.

Good: Can perform very well - and often silently, which means no annoying wails.

Bad: Almost invariably turns in to a crap break once it gets even a little wet. Sometimes just not very good in general. Have to keep the rim clean.

Tar: Rub some roofing/roadside tar over the breaking surface of the rim.

Good: With the right amount - once you pull the lever, that rim is going nowhere. A bit better in the wet than smooth.

Bad: Pads can stick to the rim, which can prove very dangerous. Repeated application of tar makes it build up - too thick a layer of tar will kill any performance gain, so has to be cleaned off with solvents occasionally. God-awful noise acompanies you whereever you ride. Looks poo

Grind: Run an angle grinder over the breaking surface of your rim to roughen it up.

Good: Best protection against wet weather available. Often better stopping power than other methods in the dry, too.

Bad: When a grind wears down, you re-grind - too many of these makes the rim weak. Wears pads down quicker than smooth/tar.

Back to breaks...

Disks: Excellent modulation and excellent power. Hydraulics and mechanical ones are available, and differ only in feel if you set them up right.

Good: Very powerful, and all the modulation you could want. Feel very nice when you're used to them. Silent. Actually get BETTER in the wet.

Bad: Rotors bend rather easily, which is usually a ride-killer.

I won't mention all the combinations... that'd take forever.

Most people use HS33 on the rear, disk on front. Rear magura offers very good bite and hold, though not much modulation. You want to be able to trust your rear brake - it's most important. Front disk modulates, but also has lots of power to lock up. Rotors can bend easily, but on the front they usually stay out of the way. Very good combination - which is why so many people use it.

Dual HS33's means you get all the snappyness, but having no modulation on the front end can make things difficult. Usually used by comp riders who know very well how much power to put in to what.

Dual disk - in my opinion - is the way to go. You get all the locking up power, as well as all the modulation - at the expense of risk. I went dual disk for two rides, and bent my rotor. If you go to the left on anything, rotors are highly suspect to bending. If you go to the right - or just never fall off, I would say give this a go. It's not for everyone though - when people get too used to a magura on the back, a disk can feel weird. Another benefit of dual disk is that your wheels can get as buckled as your frame will allow, and you can still ride.

Vees are kind of like disks crossed with maguras... All the power, but it's on the rim so you don't worry about bending rotors. Favourable for people who like techy stuff, 'cause feathering is so much easier/more effective - though a vee can be set up to be horrendously snappy. They can take Damon Watson's down to fronts - so they deffinately have the power there.

Now - it's up to you really, it depends what you're after in a break, and how you ride. Edit: If you decide to get a new frame with dual disk in mind - I'd SERIOUSLY recommend getting one with rim brake mounts, too. If you find you don't like it - you have to sell the frame on/swap it.

Think that's about it.

Edited June 12, 2010 by aener

[isitafox]

Excellent info for newb's this!

Should be a sticky brake feature!!

[JackZOO!]

Obviously there's price differences - but each can be more expensive than the other if you get the best there is. E.g. Vees can be the cheapest, but you could also set up Avid Ultimate arms and lever with expensive cables, pads and CNC backings, and adaptors if you have a 4bolt frame... They can get VERY expensive.

Maguras: Quite often an on-off brake, very little modulation. Great for TGS/natural riding, but anything that wants feathering brakes, like manuals etc. will often suffer from a break like this. If you bleed them with water, they can freeze in the winter, which can pop hoses - but mix the water with a bit of anti-freeze and it won't.

Good: Very powerful - will stop you dead. Very standardised, so if it brakes mid-ride, someone there might have spair bits. Once set up right - it'll not change untill the pads wear down - so you can put faith in it working. Have a TPA, so if you want a small adjustment, you don't need to move it about. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Hoses can pop, crossovers break, need bleeding every so often, can be irritating to set up.

Vees: Don't listen to anyone who says Vees aren't as good as hydraulics. A well set up vee can happily outperform a HS33 - the trouble lies in most people not being able to set them up correctly. Usually on streety bikes. Still got good bite and hold, but more easily feathered, and so better for manuals etc. Quite light, but very few frames come with vee mounts, so adaptors are needed.

Good: Easier to feather. Just as powerful as maguras. Barrel adjuster on lever for small adjustments. Very light on bikes with vee mounts. Spare cables can be gotten from the likes of Tesco, Wilko's, halfords, and any bike shop, if it breaks mid-ride. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Most people can't set them up well enough for trials use. Not many vee specific pads, so you almost always have to glue material in to backings. Very few frames have mounts, so have to use adaptors.

At this point, I feel I should do pro's/con's of grinds/smooth/tarred rims.

Smooth: Left as you got it from the factory.

Good: Can perform very well - and often silently, which means no annoying wails.

Bad: Almost invariably turns in to a crap break once it gets even a little wet. Sometimes just not very good in general. Have to keep the rim clean.

Tar: Rub some roofing/roadside tar over the breaking surface of the rim.

Good: With the right amount - once you pull the lever, that rim is going nowhere. A bit better in the wet than smooth.

Bad: Pads can stick to the rim, which can prove very dangerous. Repeated application of tar makes it build up - too thick a layer of tar will kill any performance gain, so has to be cleaned off with solvents occasionally. God-awful noise acompanies you whereever you ride. Looks poo

Grind: Run an angle grinder over the breaking surface of your rim to roughen it up.

Good: Best protection against wet weather available. Often better stopping power than other methods in the dry, too.

Bad: When a grind wears down, you re-grind - too many of these makes the rim weak. Wears pads down quicker than smooth/tar.

Back to breaks...

Disks: Excellent modulation and excellent power. Hydraulics and mechanical ones are available, and differ only in feel if you set them up right.

Good: Very powerful, and all the modulation you could want. Feel very nice when you're used to them. Silent. Actually get BETTER in the wet.

Bad: Rotors bend rather easily, which is usually a ride-killer.

I won't mention all the combinations... that'd take forever.

Most people use HS33 on the rear, disk on front. Rear magura offers very good bite and hold, though not much modulation. You want to be able to trust your rear brake - it's most important. Front disk modulates, but also has lots of power to lock up. Rotors can bend easily, but on the front they usually stay out of the way. Very good combination - which is why so many people use it.

Dual HS33's means you get all the snappyness, but having no modulation on the front end can make things difficult. Usually used by comp riders who know very well how much power to put in to what.

Dual disk - in my opinion - is the way to go. You get all the locking up power, as well as all the modulation - at the expense of risk. I went dual disk for two rides, and bent my rotor. If you go to the left on anything, rotors are highly suspect to bending. If you go to the right - or just never fall off, I would say give this a go. It's not for everyone though - when people get too used to a magura on the back, a disk can feel weird. Another benefit of dual disk is that your wheels can get as buckled as your frame will allow, and you can still ride.

Vees are kind of like disks crossed with maguras... All the power, but it's on the rim so you don't worry about bending rotors. Favourable for people who like techy stuff, 'cause feathering is so much easier/more effective - though a vee can be set up to be horrendously snappy. They can take Damon Watson's down to fronts - so they deffinately have the power there.

Now - it's up to you really, it depends what you're after in a break, and how you ride. Edit: If you decide to get a new frame with dual disk in mind - I'd SERIOUSLY recommend getting one with rim brake mounts, too. If you find you don't like it - you have to sell the frame on/swap it.

Think that's about it.

WOW! You must have taken ages to write this up! thanks man! this is gold for noobs!

[brad1995]

Obviously there's price differences - but each can be more expensive than the other if you get the best there is. E.g. Vees can be the cheapest, but you could also set up Avid Ultimate arms and lever with expensive cables, pads and CNC backings, and adaptors if you have a 4bolt frame... They can get VERY expensive.

Maguras: Quite often an on-off brake, very little modulation. Great for TGS/natural riding, but anything that wants feathering brakes, like manuals etc. will often suffer from a break like this. If you bleed them with water, they can freeze in the winter, which can pop hoses - but mix the water with a bit of anti-freeze and it won't.

Good: Very powerful - will stop you dead. Very standardised, so if it brakes mid-ride, someone there might have spair bits. Once set up right - it'll not change untill the pads wear down - so you can put faith in it working. Have a TPA, so if you want a small adjustment, you don't need to move it about. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Hoses can pop, crossovers break, need bleeding every so often, can be irritating to set up.

Vees: Don't listen to anyone who says Vees aren't as good as hydraulics. A well set up vee can happily outperform a HS33 - the trouble lies in most people not being able to set them up correctly. Usually on streety bikes. Still got good bite and hold, but more easily feathered, and so better for manuals etc. Quite light, but very few frames come with vee mounts, so adaptors are needed.

Good: Easier to feather. Just as powerful as maguras. Barrel adjuster on lever for small adjustments. Very light on bikes with vee mounts. Spare cables can be gotten from the likes of Tesco, Wilko's, halfords, and any bike shop, if it breaks mid-ride. Quick to bed in to a rim.

Bad: Most people can't set them up well enough for trials use. Not many vee specific pads, so you almost always have to glue material in to backings. Very few frames have mounts, so have to use adaptors.

At this point, I feel I should do pro's/con's of grinds/smooth/tarred rims.

Smooth: Left as you got it from the factory.

Good: Can perform very well - and often silently, which means no annoying wails.

Bad: Almost invariably turns in to a crap break once it gets even a little wet. Sometimes just not very good in general. Have to keep the rim clean.

Tar: Rub some roofing/roadside tar over the breaking surface of the rim.

Good: With the right amount - once you pull the lever, that rim is going nowhere. A bit better in the wet than smooth.

Bad: Pads can stick to the rim, which can prove very dangerous. Repeated application of tar makes it build up - too thick a layer of tar will kill any performance gain, so has to be cleaned off with solvents occasionally. God-awful noise acompanies you whereever you ride. Looks poo

Grind: Run an angle grinder over the breaking surface of your rim to roughen it up.

Good: Best protection against wet weather available. Often better stopping power than other methods in the dry, too.

Bad: When a grind wears down, you re-grind - too many of these makes the rim weak. Wears pads down quicker than smooth/tar.

Back to breaks...

Disks: Excellent modulation and excellent power. Hydraulics and mechanical ones are available, and differ only in feel if you set them up right.

Good: Very powerful, and all the modulation you could want. Feel very nice when you're used to them. Silent. Actually get BETTER in the wet.

Bad: Rotors bend rather easily, which is usually a ride-killer.

I won't mention all the combinations... that'd take forever.

Most people use HS33 on the rear, disk on front. Rear magura offers very good bite and hold, though not much modulation. You want to be able to trust your rear brake - it's most important. Front disk modulates, but also has lots of power to lock up. Rotors can bend easily, but on the front they usually stay out of the way. Very good combination - which is why so many people use it.

Dual HS33's means you get all the snappyness, but having no modulation on the front end can make things difficult. Usually used by comp riders who know very well how much power to put in to what.

Dual disk - in my opinion - is the way to go. You get all the locking up power, as well as all the modulation - at the expense of risk. I went dual disk for two rides, and bent my rotor. If you go to the left on anything, rotors are highly suspect to bending. If you go to the right - or just never fall off, I would say give this a go. It's not for everyone though - when people get too used to a magura on the back, a disk can feel weird. Another benefit of dual disk is that your wheels can get as buckled as your frame will allow, and you can still ride.

Vees are kind of like disks crossed with maguras... All the power, but it's on the rim so you don't worry about bending rotors. Favourable for people who like techy stuff, 'cause feathering is so much easier/more effective - though a vee can be set up to be horrendously snappy. They can take Damon Watson's down to fronts - so they deffinately have the power there.

Now - it's up to you really, it depends what you're after in a break, and how you ride. Edit: If you decide to get a new frame with dual disk in mind - I'd SERIOUSLY recommend getting one with rim brake mounts, too. If you find you don't like it - you have to sell the frame on/swap it.

Think that's about it.

Amazing advise to anyone who is unsure there mate !

Edited June 13, 2010 by brad1995

[Juan Manuel]

Yes, you should copy it to the wiki or something