1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) One thing that made me change my mind about criticising censorship on TF, is the fact that is actually somebodies forum (i.e. Tom and Danny's). It may be accesible to the public but it isn't publicly owned and nor is it democratic. It really is entirely upto them what they do. It's like if somebody offers you a lift in their car, you don't tell them how they should be driving or that their car should have a certain decor. Of course, if the forum completely ignores public opinion, then it risks dying, but I imagine that type of censorship allows, as implied, younger members to access it and if anything increases popularity. Senior membership though, in my experience of that section of the forum, seemed to have a degree of self-grandeur. The most popular thread in SM chat in my time was one that bashed "annoying members", as though a kind of specialness allowed for a looking down on others in that way. I guess that happens regardless of SMship but there seemed to be more of an excuse for it with the title. It kind of reminded me of the cool kids at school you just ripped it out of everybody who wasn't cool. It wasn't everyone though. That was four or five years ago though so it might be different now? Anyway, seems a bit of a farce either way. Again, it's cool in the sense that it's somebody elses forum and it's upto them what they do. Edited March 30, 2010 by Ben Rowlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam-Griffin Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I love how this has gone from The forum being a bit dead recently>People crying over not being Sm's>What an awful state our societies in. Well done Rusevelt, give yourself a pat on the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamus Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) topic covered - ignore Edited March 30, 2010 by shamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Back to your succinct, non rambling best. Out of interest, why are you not SM now? Choice or did you become one of the annoying members? I was away for a hefty chunk of time so obviously missed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr ailsbury Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Not all of it's bad parenting! I'm sure most people on here who smoke and drink etc did so before the legal age. Besides, a lot of people are getting served for age rated products without being ID'd these days. I've been served cigarettes and alcohol in your Somerfield before and I can get into most clubs and that no sweat these days. The parenting only really comes into play with the cliché examples in my opinion, and other than that I think parenting only really influences you a little bit. I know I was taught to be a good little Catholic girl and that didn't really happen. Yeah but you look older than you are and always have (plus its A LOT easier for girls), people who serve you (especially in my shop) are daft 'cause they're super strict when punishing people for underage sales these days, we get lectured on it and have to take tests every other month to prove we're capable of telling the difference between a toddler and a pensioner and what ID to ask for and stuff. And yeah people start smoking and drinking underage through mates at school but a lot of parents don't do that much to stop it, they take the "well you'll do it anyways whether I tell you to or not" approach and just let them get on with it. Its a hell of a lot harder to buy age restricted stuff now a days compared to when I was your age so it is deffinatly getting stricter/safer Either way, just 'cause everyone else is looking at sick porn on the net doesn't mean you have to, and like OBM said, you signed up to the forum and agree'd to behave so do it. Whenever I meet someone who's trying to get into trials (parents included) I always direct them to here and Tartybikes and if they looked on here and saw horrible porn and loads of swearing it would shine a really bad light on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Back to your succinct, non rambling best. Out of interest, why are you not SM now? Choice or did you become one of the annoying members? I was away for a hefty chunk of time so obviously missed it... For the reason I put above. Just wasn't very keen on the attitude that senior membership seemed to inspire. You can see how senior membership might do that to you, when you observe how people without it, act toward it. Clearly people want it as though it's something quite special. I was even pleased to get it at the time but then that's what hierarchies can do to you. And although I probably do it anyway in various parts of my life, I do try to avoid situations that promote that sort of feeling. The thing is, they're all still nice chaps in there, but there's just this one element I don't like. It's hardly the end of the world either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 For the reason I put above. Just wasn't very keen on the attitude that senior membership seemed to inspire. You can see how senior membership might do that to you, when you observe how people without it, act toward it. Clearly people want it as though it's something quite special. I was even pleased to get it at the time but then that's what hierarchies can do to you. And although I probably do it anyway in various parts of my life, I do try to avoid situations that promote that sort of feeling. The thing is, they're all still nice chaps in there, but there's just this one element I don't like. It's hardly the end of the world either Yea, I've never really seen the point myself but I don't doubt I'd enjoy the little pink title. As long as everyone's using the report system properly and not causing trouble, we're all senior members because there'll be no point in the SMs discussing anything among themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Ben is so clued up, he doesn't need SM, MD, or ADMIN title, he is in fact the forum messiah , much praise dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomturd Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Believe it or not I share the same concerns around SMship. In reality, theres nothing really going on in there. There's only so much conversation 15 odd active members can come up with, especially compared to thousands active on the main forums. Personally I hardly use it (hence why the other SMs probably get a little pissed off that we never make any new SMs ), but it does come in handy when talking about making changes or running something past some of the older members first, but its pretty rare that I'll do that. Whether it is worth keeping it I'm not sure. I'm sure the SMs wouldn't be too happy about losing their forum (we could always retain a status of some sort), but it sure does seem to piss a lot of members off, and I'm not sure whether the rift it seems to cause is worth it. As for censorship, if you don't like it.... well, I'll let you work out the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Tom, this forum is 100% free for us, if someone is bothered about not being a senior then just remind them of that fact. Being a senior is not a right that you instantly get after "x" amount of years as a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I know I was taught to be a good little Catholic girl and that didn't really happen. That's not good parenting in my book. In fact I'd call it bad parenting and asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomturd Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Tom, this forum is 100% free for us, if someone is bothered about not being a senior then just remind them of that fact. I'm aware of that.. but its not good for the forum if we have members who feel they're being left out, and I don't think its good for the forum if we have the attitude of 'its our forum, we'll do what we want' - hopefully we/I don't come across like that too much... (unless someone is clearly being a dick, in which case I'll out-dick them ( ) without too much thought) As I said, it causes a rift and personally I'm not sure whether the benefits of having the SM forum outweigh the drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hill Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Are people seriously that fussed about who's a SM and who isnt, surely they've got other things to be worrying about other than having access to a small part of an internet forum? Edited March 30, 2010 by Rich Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 As I said, it causes a rift and personally I'm not sure whether the benefits of having the SM forum outweigh the drawbacks. Its just a little thing under your name which recognises your postive imput to the forum essentially, I think its a good thing! Shows trustworth people on the forum, who can help you more than other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) I'm aware of that.. but its not good for the forum if we have members who feel they're being left out, and I don't think its good for the forum if we have the attitude of 'its our forum, we'll do what we want' - hopefully we/I don't come across like that too much... (unless someone is clearly being a dick, in which case I'll out-dick them ( ) without too much thought) As I said, it causes a rift and personally I'm not sure whether the benefits of having the SM forum outweigh the drawbacks. I don't think you come across like that but still, at the end of the day, realistically we should respect the fact it is your forum and ultimately you will do what you think is best. I'm not sure that I've given props before but I actually think this forum is really good, in the sense of structure and the people that use it. Obviously, like anybody with anything, I have minor gripes but overall I give it a . That's the reason I continue to lurk and occasionally post despite having a much reduced passion for trials these days. edit: Might even be worth saying thanks for all these years actually! I guess you guys have a pretty thankless job. Edited March 30, 2010 by Ben Rowlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanuckleJive Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Aren't we all meant to be caring about nailing gaps, drops, lines and stuff and not about having our name written in pink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 You've not been involved with this trials lark long, have you? All that is just what we do when we can't sit on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanuckleJive Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 You've not been involved with this trials lark long, have you? All that is just what we do when we can't sit on the forum. Well, I guess 6 years isn't long in comparison to some things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoze Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I forgot the universal sarcasm detector on that, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) If the split of the For Sale stuff had been suggested in SM Chat, chances are it would've been approved in there and then someone (probably Tom/Danny) would've started a topic in Chit Chat to discuss suggestions. So it would still be win-win. That's fair enough, the problem is you know what's in SM chat, I don't. I can only assume and argue my position based on what I think is in there. If the majority of the important topics are indeed posted outside of SM chat for the members to mull over then it's all good. To be entirely honest with you and i don't mean this to be a personal attack of any sort but when i think "JT!" my mind jumps to several occasions where you've argued slightly too far over seemingly menial things and you seem to have moaned/bitched about the Senior members existence several times when these kind of topics pop up. Again, I can't stress enough how much this isn't a directed attack or anything, i'm just trying to say it how i see it. With that in mind i wouldn't be inclined to agree that your lack of SM status is entirely based on your level of respect. Given those sentences make me sound like i'm picking out faults for the sake of it i want you to know that I appreciate that you have been here for a long time and that you can put ideas into coherent text and you contribute to idea development well and that personally, i do respect you very much for that. The current SM choosing system is in place, probably won't change and takes a long time. New people do get added and there is a need for them and the separate forum they have access to. It does stike me however, that everyone here that is complaining are basing their opinions purely on speculation. Few people know what actually is in SM chat but it seems a lot of people are getting worked up over something they know nothing about. The fact is someone went to the effort of making the forums suggestions thread in SM chat and nobody has bothered in the main forums, to me that speaks volumes on its own that non-SM members probably aren't concerned with it or if they are then for the most part they're too lazy to start anything serious about it. Besides, what makes everyone think every suggestion that concerns the rest of the forum members isn't made a topic in chit chat? With decisions like new moderator functions/buttons being added/removed it would be largely irrelevant to include the rest of the forum as they won't know it's going on or they won't have access to it. I don't take that personally at all mainly because it's true. Menial things to some are more important to others. I use this forum just as much as anyone else so what goes on in here I find pretty important, and ontop of that this form is the sole of trials in the UK, I think a lot of people forget that from time to time and what goes on in here has a big influence on what happens in the trials world. I do have a lot of time on my hands and I do have a mind that'll possibly over think things (I know I've been told that over the last 18 months plenty of times away from the forum) but I do have some issues with the SM system and like Ben and other people in here it's better to discuss these things rather than to just not bother. If SMship isn't based on a general level of respect than what is it based on? I thought that's all it was based on. It's true that things like moderator buttons should be kept in a private forum. But once you create a private forum it's like there being a box in the middle of your living room floor saying 'do not open'. It'll drive people crazy even if there's nothing in there. My main problem with SM stemmed from a couple of topics. Some guy posted up a topic about petrol and needed some info for a school project. BONGO came along and slated him for posting up a topic that could have easily been searched for on google (even though later I did search for the topics and found it hard to find anything). A few weeks later BONGO posted up a topic asking for the name of an eminem song that used muppets in the video. I said to him at the time he'd just been totally hypercritical and he told me that the situations were different. The then post up a long and detailed post about how putting 'eminem muppets' or 'eminem puppets' would both bring the song name up in the first result. And how the other guys topic was actually something he was unable to find. Now, I know this is the actions of just one SM, but what bothered me more is a few hours after I posted that, the topic had been deleted, not closed, but deleted. That means BONGO had gone to a mod and asked it to be deleted to save his own skin. And stuff like just isn't fair and shows the negative sides to the SM system. EDIT: Unless SMs can delete their own topic in which case it's a little different. Or, is it only porn, and discountz? Another point, the whole porn and discount thing, we all know it's BS, but again even though it's made up it's made up to pretend that the SM have more benefits than others. One thing that made me change my mind about criticising censorship on TF, is the fact that is actually somebodies forum (i.e. Tom and Danny's). It may be accesible to the public but it isn't publicly owned and nor is it democratic. It really is entirely upto them what they do. The cencorship on TF is good. It keeps up a good standard for the forum. Don't want it turning into OTN do we? Edited March 30, 2010 by JT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 The cencorship on TF is good. It keeps up a good standard for the forum. Don't want it turning into OTN do we? Well yeah it can be. I've not really used OTN though so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I do think that censorship has sometimes related to an over sensitivity or personal disliking to some style of expression that other people enjoy. Sometimes I think things are taken a bit too seriously about what constitutes nonsense and what is acceptable. I wish I could remember the term that was always used about a thread or post that wasn't acceptable. I don't mean something that has porn, torrents, etc. but something that's a bit daft. In the absence of daftness/silliness thing can get a bit dry, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Well yeah it can be. I've not really used OTN though so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Black cock and midget porn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 the 24tour video had to go online at some point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanuckleJive Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 In the absence of daftness/silliness thing can get a bit dry, I think. Very much so. I'm a member of a big custom drum building forum, and I can't remember the last time most of us actually talked drums, but yet it keeps running because it's one big playhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borat Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 What have I started? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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