Skipping Chris King After Return From Service

[mr kenny]

I used to work for a shop that imported I9, they were a nightmare to deal with- normally 3 month lead time on parts, and if it was a custom colour they would arrive when they did! ( The guys that ran it were so laid back!!)

I9 claim that the freehub can withstand over 700 ft/ lbs of torque but i found that because they had an alu axle the axle could flex, causing the freehub to skip.

They are georgeous though and i wouldn't hessiatate having a pair on an xc / free ride or dh rig!

[Mark W]

Doesn't matter. The I9 has a proven track record in all other disciplines...

...none of which put the same sort of stress through the drive train as trials? I'd say that does matter, personally. I'm sure lightweight carbon fibre blade forks work fine for road bikes, and have a proven track record there, but I wouldn't want them on my trials bike.

[craigjames]

Just to hijack that thread slightly, the tensioning cone on my Ck iso hub on my 24" keeps coming loose, like after every few rides... any suggestions as to why? Apart from that both the king on my 24" and stock have been solid.

[AdamR28]

Got to the bottom of the problem now New chain + old cassette.

Thanks for your help Tom!

Adam

[gu trials]

i have had the same problem with a bmx hub chris king

[tryallmaster]

I don't mean this as an insult to your intelligence I'm just doing what Sherlock Holmes would suggest - "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

If you have just bought the hub then are you running your old chain on the old cog that came with the hub? (or a new chain with an old cog or and old chain with a new cog - you get my drift!)

It could be this causing the chain to slip, resulting in a knee stem moment, and not actually a skip of the hub internals.

Just one to rule out that's all.

looks like you were right boyo!

[tdubz]

thanks adam

i feel a bit daft thats its turned out sommat as trivial as that

but the good news is there is no hub problem

thanks tarty for your patience and you are quite welcome to give me a rub of the head and a told you so hahaha

happy chris king owner !!!!!

thanks

thomas

[rupintart]

...none of which put the same sort of stress through the drive train as trials? I'd say that does matter, personally. I'm sure lightweight carbon fibre blade forks work fine for road bikes, and have a proven track record there, but I wouldn't want them on my trials bike.

IIRC wasn't there a trials fork like 6 years ago that was carbon that held up fine??? not too many people bought it because of the price, but there was one. A couple of the OTN guys ran it IINM.

The shop I used to work at never had problems with the I9 hubs, ever. We've sold over 2 dozen wheelsets within the 1 year of becoming a dealer to some of the gnarliest riders and none of them ever complained and over 20 sets of their hubs. One of the guys that's riding them now is a Clydesdale and is #1 in the state. He would chew through DT swiss hubs, Mavic hubs, and his Kings just kept coming loose, switched and couldn't be happier. Much stiffer wheel as well.

Part of the reason I9 is so backed is everything is done in house and it's ran by like 8 guys total. Also, they don't want people building their wheelsets. But we never had a problem with getting parts in stock, custom colors, nothing. To save time, we asked them if we could build the wheels instead of them and they were happy to.

I9's are pretty popular here on the east coast, and pretty much EVERYBODY in North Carolina runs them. Much like any company, it takes a minute to get to the other coast let alone overseas, but here on the east coast, no problems from anybody I've ever ran into.

It's comical how people will be quick to trust a freewheel from companies that are just rebadging something else rather than something that is CLEARLY overbuilt (especially by comparison) and DEFINITELY has higher QC standards. If you saw a "trials" fw and then saw the I9 and had no idea which were which, you would likely have more faith in the latter. But since it's a "trials" part, people are more apt to accept it as "burly" when it's nothing more than a rebadged pick-and-choose catalog part.

Edited March 25, 2010 by rupintart

[Mikey-uk]

gnarliest

lol

[craigjames]

blaa.

Do you run I9's on your bikes?

[AdamR28]

Irrelevance.

Has ANYBODY you know (who is actually a reasonably high level trials rider) ever run one on a trials bike?

[Mark W]

Blah blah blah blah.

That's so deeply interesting, a really captivating story. Key question: How many of those people you sold them to used them for trials? I genuinely don't give any kind of shit about 'gnarly' 'hardcore' MTBers because they don't put the same stresses through the engagement system as trials riders. You literally cannot argue with that, it is pure fact. As a result, until they're actually proven for trials, I'm still not convinced.

[Trials Punk]

Doesn't matter. The I9 has a proven track record in all other disciplines here in the states as well as a company who has BLATANTLY said "if you can break it, we'll fix it".

How doesn't it matter? The hope XC and Bulb had a "proven" track record in all other disciplines to, I've lost count of the amount of old Hopes I've ripped apart!

I've also heard the phrase "if you can break it, we'll fix it" before. So what happens if trials riders start using the hubs, and start ripping them so shreds? Will they still honour that statement? I doubt it very much.

It's comical how people will be quick to trust a freewheel from companies that are just rebadging something else rather than something that is CLEARLY overbuilt (especially by comparison) and DEFINITELY has higher QC standards. If you saw a "trials" fw and then saw the I9 and had no idea which were which, you would likely have more faith in the latter. But since it's a "trials" part, people are more apt to accept it as "burly" when it's nothing more than a rebadged pick-and-choose catalog part.

To be honest, I've never been a fan of overbuilding anything, I would much rather it be designed with the forces that are to be applied to it in mind.

I think you will find that people don't just buy things because they are a "trials" part, but more on how the hub has stood up to lashings of abuse by riders. All the succesfull freewheels have a proven track record, whereas the I9 does not.

[Skoze]

"if you can break it, we'll fix it"

Yeah, but will they cover the repair costs to your face/ teeth when it all goes tits up at a critical moment?

[rupintart]

2 people I know that own them ride at a fairly high level. And one just piddles in trials. One of them has a scholarship for riding at the collegiate level. Is ranked like 8th or some shit in the nation. He rides 4x and downhill primarily, but has i9s on ALL of his bikes, his BMX and trials bike included. Anybody that lives in Pisgah, North Carolina knows who he is.

The other guy, I haven't seen him in probably 3-4 years was running protoype I9's. He competed in old man expert class back in 2006. He's good friends with the guy above and were actually roomates for awhile before he got his scholarship. And when I asked him if he was still running the I9s a couple months back, he said "as far as I know..."

The one that piddles in trials rides premarily BMX and is my neighbor. He has a rear I9 on his bike and I've been able to ride his bike at a nearly daily availability. Kid PLOWS through Profiles, KHE, and King axles. Decided he'd switch from a King to an I9 and he says he'll never look back.

As far as the "applied with the trials forces in mind" that's why King doesn't want you to use the hub for trials??? It has absolutely nothing with "trials in mind". And if you think many of those freewheels have "trials forces in mind", look at this:

So you'd rather trust:

Over:

And that's a burly white industries freewheel. Just by those three pictures alone, you should be able to gather which one is definitely a bit more "qualified" for trials. The contact surface area alone trounces the crap out of the WI. Even IF they used inferior materials, it would likely be stronger due to that fact alone.

In anycase, those picture alone should suffice for any sort of "doubt compared to tried and true trials parts". If you people would whole heartedly trust a freewheel that's OBVIOUSLY inferior, and are close minded enough even with proof of pictures for comparison, there really is no point in debating this.

Edited March 26, 2010 by rupintart

[Mark W]

Using an Eno as a barometer for a 'good' trials freewheel is a bit of a flaw in my opinion anyway, in that my experiences with Enos weren't particularly good.

The one that piddles in trials rides premarily BMX and is my neighbor. He has a rear I9 on his bike and I've been able to ride his bike at a nearly daily availability.

So he primarily rides BMX, but you've been able to ride his trials bike with the I9 on 'nearly daily'?

he said "as far as I know..."

Weird way to answer a fairly straight forward question. Similarly, saying someone else "primarily" rides other disciplines but happens to have a trials bike as well seems sort of odd? If they're both used to riding other disciplines more, and 'primarily' use their other bikes, that again doesn't really mean much of anything?

I'm not saying that I9s are bad, but I'm just saying they're not tested for trials. Your BMXer and MTBer friends who happen to have one on their occassionally used trials bikes don't really constitute 'tested'.

If you people would whole heartedly trust a freewheel that's OBVIOUSLY inferior, and are close minded enough even with proof of pictures for comparison, there really is no point in debating this.

I don't trust Enos, which is why I don't run them. If you're trying to compare a comparatively over-priced freewheel that's not as good as it's competitors with the I9, there's no point in "debating" it either Might also want to note no-one was debating anything to do with I9s before you waded in, in so much as the original poster's only problem with his old King hub was that his sprockets were worn and he was using a new chain. The hub is mechanically sound, and is still working. In fact, the King in question is 7-8 years old, and Adam who works here used to use it. Seems to work alright...

[AdamR28]

I'm not saying that I9s are bad, but I'm just saying they're not tested for trials. Your BMXer and MTBer friends who happen to have one on their occassionally used trials bikes don't really constitute 'tested'.

+1. I9s could be the next best thing, the design looks good and it should work if the materials and tolerances are decent, but they aren't tested for trials yet!

There also appears to be no bearing underneath the pawl mechanism, which is there the old XC, Mono and BULB hubs fell down...

Are they available with a steel freehub body and a bolt up (not bolt through) axle?

Edit: Found this on Facebook, 8 months of DH use (ie. not hard on drivetrain), bottom spring appears to be a bit dead which is weird? http://is.pinkbike.com//photo/1796/pbpic1796053.jpg

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

The contact surface area alone trounces the crap out of the WI.

I'm not convinced by that argument myself. Considering the diameter and depth of the respective pawls and bodies I'd say the actual contact areas are probably pretty similar... As has been said many a time, until someone who can actually ride trials properly gives the I9 a go and provides some feedback I'll be unconvinced. Especially if the best evidence that comes up is that they work brilliantly for XC, freeriding and BMX. Different. Kettle. Of. Fish. And what a weird saying that is...

[Luke Rainbird]

Different. Kettle. Of. Fish. And what a weird saying that is...

There are actually two common idioms based around the phrase a kettle of fish. One is yours, which means “This is a different matter from the one previously mentioned”. The other is more of an exclamation: either as a pretty kettle of fish! or a fine kettle of fish!, meaning that some awkward state of affairs has arisen. The latter is much older, dating from the eighteenth century, while yours is twentieth-century and seems to be derived from it.

Nobody is really sure where the expression comes from, but we do know that the phrase a kettle of fish was originally a literal term. These days, especially in Britain and Commonwealth countries, we think of a kettle as a small enclosed container with a handle and spout for boiling water to make our tea. (I believe that Americans are less familiar with this essential item of kitchenware.) In the eighteenth century, though, a kettle was any large vessel used to boil stuff in.

There was, it seems, a custom by which the gentry on the Scottish border with England would hold a picnic (though that term was not then known) by a river. The custom was described by Thomas Newte in his Tour of England and Scotland in 1785: “It is customary for the gentlemen who live near the Tweed to entertain their neighbours and friends with a Fete Champetre, which they call giving ‘a kettle of fish’. Tents or marquees are pitched near the flowery banks of the river ... a fire is kindled, and live salmon thrown into boiling kettles”.

[forteh]

So the main difference between the I9 and a standard freewheel is that each I9 pawl has 3 engagement teeth per pawl, still only 6 pawls though. The thing is once one pawl has skipped, its skipped and no matter how many extra teeth it has its going to skip in exactly the same way as a freewheel, the difference is you have all those extra surfaces rubbing together causing additional wear and drag over each and every one of those ratchet teeth.

Personally I would rather have a single pawl with a larger land than lots of little teeth with less land

The statement above is a bit void as I have a king - lots of little teeth, but they all engage at the same time and increasing load only serves to further engage the drive. As I said my king is very old now and has never skipped since Ive had it, didnt skip for ben travis either who I got it off.

[craigjames]

So NO ONE has given an I9 a thorough testing at a high level for TRIALS abuse?.........

Then I see no reason to trust it.

[Alex Dark]

So the gauntlet has been laid down...maybe I9 should send a hub to a professional trials rider to give it the going over? See if it really is all that Rup'y claims it to be

[cai]

So you'd rather trust:

Over:

Yes anyday, freewheels have never let me down. Plus the insides of that I9 hub don't impress me what so ever. The engagements in that hub don't look to be as deep as a freewheels either!

[Trials Punk]

And that's a burly white industries freewheel. Just by those three pictures alone, you should be able to gather which one is definitely a bit more "qualified" for trials. The contact surface area alone trounces the crap out of the WI. Even IF they used inferior materials, it would likely be stronger due to that fact alone.

In anycase, those picture alone should suffice for any sort of "doubt compared to tried and true trials parts". If you people would whole heartedly trust a freewheel that's OBVIOUSLY inferior, and are close minded enough even with proof of pictures for comparison, there really is no point in debating this.

Sorry, I think your the close minded one! How is anybody meant to determine which is better? Its just a picture you can't tell shit from it. I cant see how the white industries freewheel is "OBVIOUSLY" inferior.

A few people question the hub for use in proper trials as it has not been tested, and you start defending it like its your baby! Fan boy?