Market Research-If You Wouldnt Mind.

[Fish-Finger-er]

Hi, after wanting some bits anodizing for my motorbike, im semi tempted to do it myself.

But if im getting all the stuff to do it myself, i may as well offer the service to others.

So, if you dont mind:

How many of you lot would be interested in getting bits anodized?

What kind of things would you want anodizing?

and

What kind of prices would you be willing to pay?

( for example; for a brake lever? a set of cranks? a frame?)

The reason im looking at setting up to do it myself is the fact that the items i want anodizing will easily fit into some suitable containers I already have in my garage, I already have a suitable constant power supply, and caustic soda, so am only in need of the sulphuric acid,the dye, and some wire for hanging. Which although working out at 3 times the price of sending it away to have it done, it would mean i could do a few other bits i want for myself. and once the inital cost is recouped, apart from buying additional colour dyes theres going to be very little outlay).

But im just unsure on how much call there is for this kind of thing,or what kind of prices i should be charging if i decide to go for it, as in, once everythings bought, doing a frame would cost me litle more than my time, so should i charge say £10-15 to do it, or charge the cost of a professional spray job, as thats what your getting, someone putting a proper finish on your frame, or charge more than that? as its supposedly a more expensive finish, and is obviously more hard wearing(and from experience of quotes, anodizing places want a lot more than sprayers for doing parts). The issue with charging also confuses me, as obviously if i was having a large tank for frames(wasnt going to go that big for myself, and to do so would incur a considerable set up fee) , id also have a small one for doing levers, cranks, bolts, little bits for guns, etc but the time taken to do a lever, would not be awfully different for doing a frame(so say I was working on a labour rate of £20 per hour, as once set up is recouped, costs would be neglibie, id be charging through the nose for a lever that you could buy brand new yourself for less, yet doing a frame for £30)

Basically the maths behind it is I want both my motorbike swing arms doing, for which the anodizer wants £40 a piece, for £100 I could purchase enough sulphuric acid to do them myself, and enough dye to them myself, I know a few other people whove payed that much to have it done, Id only need to find 1 person wanting a swing arm anodizing in the same colour, and id be in profit, and after that, as the colour i want is the most expensive dye, anyone wanting them in any colour, would equal more profit, wether id got the dye or not.

[Shaun H]

Won't you need a bath for each individual colour? Or a way to store each dye mixture without cross contamination?

[Ali C]

I have had a frame, cranks and seat clamp anodised by a proffesional company before, that cost £35 (not including postage), I thought that was pretty cheap. Santacruz charge an extra £200 for their frames anodised rather than powder coated.

[PeanuckleJive]

I've known a guy who tried it before, And he gave it up pretty quickly. It's really unpleasant stuff to work around as well, I'd rather just send my stuff away than deal with the hassle

if you really wanna do it, then I guess it's your choice but I don't think there's all that much money in it on a small scale.

[Fish-Finger-er]

Won't you need a bath for each individual colour? Or a way to store each dye mixture without cross contamination?

yea, Ive got enough containers to house all the colours(well access to enough containers) although purely on a space front, id most likely just have 2 or 3 containers housing the most popular colours(id start off with the 1 id neeed for my own bits, till anyone else wanted more in large sizes) and then just have little containers(big enough to do cranks, hubs, stems,bolts, levers,scope mounts,sidewheels etc) for other sizes.

Given that the dye is water soluble,cleaning containers to avoid cross contamination, wouldnt be too much of an issue(given thre fact that im going to be outside with a hosepipe at several stages in the process anyway), refill the containers with water, use a brush/rag to wipe down all the sides of the container, pour out, and then hose out again.

Ideally id not want to go up to frame size, purely on the size and cost of the acid id have to buy and store in the house, but the one thing thats going to be profitable on the motorbike side of things, is rims, which extend past the size of the container i was going to use for my own bits. which would just about fit in some plastic containers i could use for dying, that come with lids and are stackable. but obviously i realise the only major profitable line on the bike side of things, would be frames, which is why im interested to hear what people would be willing to pay/have payed.

As ali said, at the factory, companies charge through the nose for anodizing,obviously if dh'ers(as by the cost of their sport, they typically have more money than trials riders, and are more likely to spend £70 on anodizing part of a £2000 frame that theyll ride for 3-4 years, than we are to spend £50 anodizing a £300 frame were going to keep for 6 months) and xc'ers are willing to spend 3 figure sums on gettin frames anodized, and £50+ on swingarms or front triangles, to get a custom bike, rather than a factory finish(which costs more, and isnt custom) then it could work out very profitable. but if im going to be left with 2 blokes wanting different colour trials frames,and requests for 5 or so lever blades at £4 a pop,

[Fuse]

I don't know what sort of quantities you're talking about, but out of interest where are you planning on getting the sulphuric acid from? Getting hold of chemicals isn't necessarily a case of just popping down the shops!

There's also the issue of how you'd dispose of the acid as well, you can't simpy pour it down the sink, it's more than a little frowned upon!

Basically, while there are worse chemicals to handle, if you don't know what you're doing it's still dangerous enough to cause you problems. It's very toxic, corrosive, highly reactive and generally very unpleasant if you get any on your skin or in your eyes.

I guess what I'm saying is don't piss around with chemicals if you don't know what you're doing (which maybe you do, I'm just hazarding a guess that you've perhaps not given this side of it much thought yet).

Edited March 8, 2010 by Fuse

[T.McMillan]

I have local annodising company, and they have never charged me any more than a fiver each time, and the maximum ive sent in items at one time is around 15 to 20, that included pedals, levers, brake clamps, bolts, bash rings, etc, so depending on how cheap really, plus you'll have postage costs on top of that.

[Fish-Finger-er]

Ive got a source for the acid, (unsure on just how much i can get) but if it comes down to it, there was someone selling it by the litre at 98% on ebay, which i could dilute down to 20%.

as for disposal, the same source as i got it from could dispose of it(again just how much, as in if it was diluted down to 20% at 100 litres it may be a bit much to get rid of)

the more im looking into it, the more im less inclined to do it(since if im doing it properly and advertising it etc, im going to have to be a proper registered business, which i have no issue with, but it means ill then need public liability, correct waste disposal(as bare in mind, although safe and legitimate, my source/disposer couldnt exactly be noted on the forms). and also as i said, the hassle going into doing the smaller bits, which would be the bread and butter, for low profit. and all the big stuff would be too sparse.

[Fuse]

Ive got a source for the acid, (unsure on just how much i can get) but if it comes down to it, there was someone selling it by the litre at 98% on ebay, which i could dilute down to 20%.

as for disposal, the same source as i got it from could dispose of it(again just how much, as in if it was diluted down to 20% at 100 litres it may be a bit much to get rid of)

the more im looking into it, the more im less inclined to do it(since if im doing it properly and advertising it etc, im going to have to be a proper registered business, which i have no issue with, but it means ill then need public liability, correct waste disposal(as bare in mind, although safe and legitimate, my source/disposer couldnt exactly be noted on the forms). and also as i said, the hassle going into doing the smaller bits, which would be the bread and butter, for low profit. and all the big stuff would be too sparse.

Be VERY careful diluting sulphuric acid. It's a very exothermic reaction which can boil when you're doing it, splashing concentrated acid out of the container. You need to add small amounts of acid to large amounts of water, never do it the other way round (i.e. don't pour water into a container of concentrated acid).

[PeanuckleJive]

Ive got a source for the acid, (unsure on just how much i can get) but if it comes down to it, there was someone selling it by the litre at 98% on ebay, which i could dilute down to 20%.

as for disposal, the same source as i got it from could dispose of it(again just how much, as in if it was diluted down to 20% at 100 litres it may be a bit much to get rid of)

the more im looking into it, the more im less inclined to do it(since if im doing it properly and advertising it etc, im going to have to be a proper registered business, which i have no issue with, but it means ill then need public liability, correct waste disposal(as bare in mind, although safe and legitimate, my source/disposer couldnt exactly be noted on the forms). and also as i said, the hassle going into doing the smaller bits, which would be the bread and butter, for low profit. and all the big stuff would be too sparse.

if you really wanna try it, maybe you could go for a starter kit from somewhere, they're not too expensive and they're gonna give you the lowdown on the whole affair before you dive into huge tubs of acid and stuff.

I can't remember the name of the catalogue, but there's a classic car restoration supplier that we used to have lying around at my old job all the time that sold them, and they weren't all that expensive