Joe O'Connor Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 What was your question? How can things such as a sick person becoming well instantly through the prayer be "just a case of physics and the laws of nature"? Dont say that it doesnt happen because it has happened to plenty of people in my family. What about those ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dont say that it doesnt happen because it has happened to plenty of people in my family. That's good to know. Utter tosh of course but good to know. I quite honestly have no real response for that because it is firstly completely impossible and stupid but the fact you honestly believe it makes it really worrying... Do you not find it even slightly odd that no one else in the entire World has ever seen a miracle (whether they're true believers in God or no) yet you've personally witnessed plenty? There's something reeally wrong there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe O'Connor Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Apparently he just heals your family. Lucky you! No he doesnt. Have you ever been to a Church when things like that happen? I bet you havent. God of the gaps is the term given to the logic you are using. "We don't know, so it must have been God". I saw a documentary about evolution and there was a period of several million years where they didnt know what happened, so they said that there were 7ft tall humans, mostly covered in hair that lived in the Sahara but they died off because they didnt have sweat glands and over heated. It also said that they found a hole full of skeletons small as a child but a man (like a midget) and they said that humans had "Evolved" to be one third of their size to make it easier to hunt in the conditions they lived. But people used to think that people born with deformities were demons or witches, and it could be a place where they used to bury dwarfs after they killed them because they thought they were demons. Its seems to me that Evolutionist are the ones that just chuck a random bit of information about humans evolving when they cant explain it. That's good to know. Utter tosh of course but good to know. I quite honestly have no real response for that because it is firstly completely impossible and stupid but the fact you honestly believe it makes it really worrying... Do you not find it even slightly odd that no one else in the entire World has ever seen a miracle (whether they're true believers in God or no) yet you've personally witnessed plenty? There's something reeally wrong there. Did you know that your comment is really really stupid because it happens everyday to people all across the world? You dont see it because you completely cut yourself out from Church and healings and all miracles, how do you expect to see them when you have your eyes closed to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Have you ever been to a Church when things like that happen? I bet you havent. You're bloody right I haven't. Because any mass hysteria fueled sermon like that is 100% false with 'stooges' placed to make the naive followers like yourself see what they want you to see. What's more worrying is that it sounds like your entire family must be conspiring against you to make sure you're well and truly brainwashed to the way of the lord. Its seems to me that Evolutionist are the ones that just chuck a random bit of information about humans evolving when they cant explain it. I think the documentary you watched was some bullshit made by Christians to help in the brain washing again. If that's the extent of your knowledge of science and evolution I'm not surprised you're so confused and naive. Get a grip, man. Did you know that your comment is really really stupid because it happens everyday to people all across the world? You dont see it because you completely cut yourself out from Church and healings and all miracles, how do you expect to see them when you have your eyes closed to them? It really, really, really doesn't. If it did, do you think anyone in the World would not believe in God? There would be no need for doctors or hospitals because everyone would be a complete believer in God and just nip down the church when they found out they had cancer. The only place these things happen are in completely over the top/cult sermons not dissimilar to what's in the video in the very first post. You need to open your eyes if you honestly believe what you think you're seeing during these 'healings'. I've seen enough footage of those 'miracles' and 'healings' to know it's absolute bullshit. I really hope you never get struck down with a serious illness because your trust in the Lord ain't gonna cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeperson45 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 How'd some random chemicals create a soul/personality that is instantly there when we're born? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 How'd some random chemicals create a soul/personality that is instantly there when we're born? Your brain is a very clever thing but it's the old nature/nurture thing. Between the general personality traits you can inherit from your parents (nature- think of how you can gauge a dogs likely temperament from its parents and breeding) and the rest comes down to nurture- what you are exposed to as you grow up, the way you are treated by those around you etc. Having a 'soul' adds the spiritual element to it which is just another way of thinking about your personality and how your presence has impacted and affected those around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeperson45 Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ruined my theory of souls being on a waiting list and are then put in babies beng born Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ruined my theory of souls being on a waiting list and are then put in babies beng born , however you want to think about it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam-Griffin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dave vs Joe threads are always epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Dave vs Joe threads are always epic. It's very similar to knocking your head against a brick wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam-Griffin Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 It's very similar to knocking your head against a brick wall... Yes, except much more humorous. Although I think it kills a similar amount of brain cells to reading Jesus boys posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Joe my Great Aunt has been a devout Christian all her life and attends Church aaaallllll the damn time. Unfortunately she's going bat shit crazy with dementia. Could you do me a massive favor and do some praying to "heal" her? Because f**k me is it mentally and emotionally painful to go and visit her seeing the way she is. If I believed in the crock of shit you call the bible I would join in but unfortunately I'm intelligent enough to know that I've just got to accept life for what it is. Hopefully I'm wrong and she'll be right as rain in no time. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 It's a no brainer to me. Do you believe in Harry Potter? Do you believe in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? No? That's because they're just books with stories in, much like the bible. There's still no hard evidence posted that god created us... (No, the old "I've seen it first hand" doesn't count.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe O'Connor Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 You're bloody right I haven't. Because any mass hysteria fueled sermon like that is 100% false with 'stooges' placed to make the naive followers like yourself see what they want you to see. What's more worrying is that it sounds like your entire family must be conspiring against you to make sure you're well and truly brainwashed to the way of the lord. I think the documentary you watched was some bullshit made by Christians to help in the brain washing again. If that's the extent of your knowledge of science and evolution I'm not surprised you're so confused and naive. Get a grip, man. And you think Im an idiot? Dosent matter to me, you can call me what you want, do what you want etc. But in the end I know whats going to happen. If Im wrong then stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 And you think Im an idiot? But in the end I know whats going to happen. Not an idiot, just naive, close-minded (in your own, Christian way) and undereducated in scientific theories. Well I'm really glad one person in the World knows what's going to happen in the end because everyone else can only speculate. The Pope, Archbishop and I included... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpanzyyyy Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Not an idiot, just naive, close-minded (in your own, Christian way) and undereducated in scientific theories. I really like the fact you say he's close-minded I think I never read one of your comments on here without thinking you're close-minded interesting topic despite the silly "damn retarded americans" title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe O'Connor Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I really like the fact you say he's close-minded I think I never read one of your comments on here without thinking you're close-minded interesting topic despite the silly "damn retarded americans" title. What do you believe? Just curious to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 I really like the fact you say he's close-minded I think I never read one of your comments on here without thinking you're close-minded I thought someone would pick up on something like that. The thing is that I'm open to suggestions and have considered the possibility of a god and afterlife and whatever else but have thought about it reasonably and logically and decided that it's all rubbish. Not the underlying message of religion of course but the need for a beardy dude who can heal the sick and the existence of heaven as a place to go when you die. Basically, I've been through the open minded stage, realised there's nothing in it and am now open to suggestions but consider it incredibly unlikely so don't tend to entertain the idea for long any more. Joe on the other hand seems to have simply been brought up being told exactly what to think, these beliefs being backed up by rather questionable miraculous healings in church through prayer and incredible stories from Christian camps. He's shown over and again his lack of knowledge on the evolutionary theory and so is happy to carry on believing what he's been told to believe for years. I know what you're getting at but I honestly believe he's the one whose completely ignorant to the possibilities that are out there. I understand the basis of his beliefs and am willing consider and ultimately dismiss them whereas he has little understanding of where I'm coming from yet freely dismisses it without even considering the possibility. I know what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpanzyyyy Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 What do you believe? Just curious to know not in any religion I would say my father is from morocco and my mother is half belgian half italian...It seems I have a muslim/catholic background at first but I do not My father is not an active muslim...he never pray, he often drink alcohol and sometimes eat pork. My mother kinda hates everything close to catholic religion...(in a hippie way if you know what I mean) I m interested a lot in people's faith, as I can understand why people tends to look for "a way"(religion for example) to live their life and find out the meaning of their existence(there's bunch of questions about it). monkeyseemonkeydo, I was not talking only about that topic...it seems to me (just my opinion anyway) that you act like this in a lot of other topics you may be a really cultivated and intelligent person, it doesn't protect you of being wrong sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Fel Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Youtube Video ->Original Video name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 monkeyseemonkeydo, I was not talking only about that topic...it seems to me (just my opinion anyway) that you act like this in a lot of other topics I'm guessing you mean the OTN topic where I went off on one about Americans (funnily enough considering the title of this topic!) and again, you're right, I can be rather outspoken and have quite strong opinions... it's comes down to me seeing things in black and white with not much room for grey areas I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishayton Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 To joe, what church are you a member of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Youtube Video ->Original Video name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beigemaster Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 you may be a really cultivated and intelligent person, it doesn't protect you of being wrong sometimes. More to the point Monkeysee, I'm sorry to say that you don't give the impression of being an intelligent person if you don't back up what you're saying with any kind of justification. I'm sure you are intelligent and have a passion against certain negative aspects of religion and blind faith. However, if you just use ad hominem and straw man attacks then you're argument have just as little credibility as those who say "God exists because atheism is evil and apes can't give birth to humans" ect. Example, if Joe is claiming that he has witnessed "miracle healings", would it not be more credible to quiz him on this point and ask for details or justification rather than just saying "well that's rubbish because they just don't happen", in a critical context, both are just as weak as each other as it boils down to being your word against his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I saw a documentary about evolution and there was a period of several million years where they didnt know what happened, so they said that there were 7ft tall humans, mostly covered in hair that lived in the Sahara but they died off because they didnt have sweat glands and over heated. It also said that they found a hole full of skeletons small as a child but a man (like a midget) and they said that humans had "Evolved" to be one third of their size to make it easier to hunt in the conditions they lived. But people used to think that people born with deformities were demons or witches, and it could be a place where they used to bury dwarfs after they killed them because they thought they were demons. Its seems to me that Evolutionist are the ones that just chuck a random bit of information about humans evolving when they cant explain it. What you're saying is pretty much useless without a link to the documentary, it's impossible to know what context it's in and it's probably been distorted by your own bias views about evolution. Evolutionists don't just 'chuck random bits of info in'. I'm not going to go any further into it than that as to say something like that shows you complete misunderstanding and unwillingness to accept the truth, a lot of Chirstian religions accept evolution these days. But regardless, you watched one documentary that you didn't really understand, and therefor that's a good argument against the years and years of scientific evidence in which scientists working under the same methods of discovery have made computers and put man on the moon. How come scientists have done everything else right, apart from evolution - which you seem to say that have it 100% wrong? It's a bit away from their track record isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.