Oh My f**king God America... What The Hell Is Wrong With You?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I was quite close to becoming an arsonist when the Church of Scientology opened up in Bournemouth. Had a couple of fliers through the door which made me want to letterbomb them...

[beigemaster]

You should check out that guy's Youtube Channel, he takes on Scientology suffers all their usual tactics such as picketing, fair game and smear campaigns and yet he keeps going. Think he's been at it for 10 years or so.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

You should check out that guy's Youtube Channel, he takes on Scientology suffers all their usual tactics such as picketing, fair game and smear campaigns and yet he keeps going. Think he's been at it for 10 years or so.

Just watched a bit of the Panorama program on there. Scientology should be banned worldwide if you ask me. I really don't get why so many 'famous' people have been dragged in, unless they have money invested in it... which is very possible.

[Al_Fel]

So walking on water, healing the sick, ascending up to heaven etc isn't bull shit because it was wrote 2000 or so years ago? I wonder what people will think of Scientology in 2000 years?

I still can't understand why Christians worship a Jew.

[1a2bcio8]

So walking on water, healing the sick, ascending up to heaven etc isn't bull shit because it was wrote 2000 or so years ago? I wonder what people will think of Scientology in 2000 years?

I still can't understand why Christians worship a Jew.

Regarding the latter point, I'm unsure why that matters? Jesus is 'worshiped' or respected because of what he taught/said/realised. There's not really anything contradictory about it. When somebody is Jewish, it refers to their ethnicity. Somebodies ethnicity doesn't have to define or limit the way of thinking they put forward, whereby it's contradictory for a Jew to think in any other way that's not Judaist; and it's contradictory for somebody that's not a Jew to subscribe to a religion founded by a Jew.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Ben Rowlands

[Al_Fel]

I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I mean that Jews have different practices to Christians.

The point I'm trying to get across is that to me Christianity is just as much bullshit as Scientology. You can't tell me to be open minded out Christianity and not believe that Scientology is just as valid.

I'm not trying to tell you to be open or closed minded I'm telling you Christianity and any other religion are not real and should be left in the history books and not practised.

I think its pretty sad that people need the threat of Eternal damnation to be good to each other.

[1a2bcio8]

I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I mean that Jews have different practices to Christians.

The point I'm trying to get across is that to me Christianity is just as much bullshit as Scientology. You can't tell me to be open minded out Christianity and not believe that Scientology is just as valid.

I'm not trying to tell you to be open or closed minded I'm telling you Christianity and any other religion are not real and should be left in the history books and not practised.

I think its pretty sad that people need the threat of Eternal damnation to be good to each other.

Jews are a type of people, who can but do not always practice Judaism. A Jew can become a Christian depsite being born a Jew, if that makes sense? Basically, a Jew and Judaism (the religious system) aren't the same thing or fixed to one another.

A load of Christianity is probably nonsense regarding certain interpretations and intentions. I wouldn't deny that but still, you never know how screwy this existence could turn out to be

[beigemaster]

So walking on water, healing the sick, ascending up to heaven etc isn't bull shit because it was wrote 2000 or so years ago? I wonder what people will think of Scientology in 2000 years?

I still can't understand why Christians worship a Jew.

I don't intend to put forward a comprehensive justification of the account of miracles in the Christian faith but I just wonder what is your justification for the concept of a miracle "bull shit"? If you assume from the outset that miracles are impossible and can not happen, then you have merely begged the question.

If Scientology contained an account of miracles, even if Tom Cruise himself flew down from the sky thanks to his new Scientology miracle powers, scientology would still remain an instrument of manipulating the weak in order to create wealth for it self. People see that now and they will see that in 2000 years time.

[Al_Fel]

Jews are a type of people, who can but do not always practice Judaism. A Jew can become a Christian depsite being born a Jew, if that makes sense? Basically, a Jew and Judaism (the religious system) aren't the same thing or fixed to one another.

A load of Christianity is probably nonsense regarding certain interpretations and intentions. I wouldn't deny that but still, you never know how screwy this existence could turn out to be

I get you now. Did "YOU" practice Judaism?

I don't intend to put forward a comprehensive justification of the account of miracles in the Christian faith but I just wonder what is your justification for the concept of a miracle "bull shit"? If you assume from the outset that miracles are impossible and can not happen, then you have merely begged the question.

If Scientology contained an account of miracles, even if Tom Cruise himself flew down from the sky thanks to his new Scientology miracle powers, scientology would still remain an instrument of manipulating the weak in order to create wealth for it self. People see that now and they will see that in 2000 years time.

I don't really understand the first part. But I'd like to ask why do Christians spend so much money on over elaborate churches? Is that not a misuse of money?

[beigemaster]

I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I mean that Jews have different practices to Christians.

The point I'm trying to get across is that to me Christianity is just as much bullshit as Scientology. You can't tell me to be open minded out Christianity and not believe that Scientology is just as valid.

I'm not trying to tell you to be open or closed minded I'm telling you Christianity and any other religion are not real and should be left in the history books and not practised.

I think its pretty sad that people need the threat of Eternal damnation to be good to each other.

I'm hearing rants and accusations but not much in the way of reason, argument or even intelligence. You know who else does that.....

Youtube Video ->

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[Al_Fel]

But you accept that Scientology could be the answer?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

A Jew can become a Christian depsite being born a Jew, if that makes sense?

But it's incredibly difficult, so I understand, for someone of any other faith to become a Jew. Isn't that weird?

I don't intend to put forward a comprehensive justification of the account of miracles in the Christian faith but I just wonder what is your justification for the concept of a miracle "bull shit"? If you assume from the outset that miracles are impossible and can not happen, then you have merely begged the question.

If Scientology contained an account of miracles, even if Tom Cruise himself flew down from the sky thanks to his new Scientology miracle powers, scientology would still remain an instrument of manipulating the weak in order to create wealth for it self. People see that now and they will see that in 2000 years time.

I can't really follow either of those points I'm afraid. I think it's pretty safe to say that nothing in the bible actually happened and that all the stories are 'metaphors' and, if assumed to be taken literally are bull shit. If the creation story is bullshit then surely it has to point to the rest of the book (religion?) being bull shit too (in the sense that the stories, not the meanings, are ficticious).

As for Scientology I think you'll find that if Tom Cruise were to fly down from the sky in front of a bunch of reliable sources, film crews, photographers etc and start preaching that he has seen Xenu and Scientology is the only way forwards then there would be mass conversions and a lot of people would start following him as the new Jesus. Not kidding. And as Anal says, chances are in 2000 years there will probably be a thread on 'jet bike observed trials on Neptune-forum.com' wondering how half the population of Earth could possibly believe some stupid story about an alien, a volcano and some strange little man who's stuck in a closet but was considered to be the saviour of mankind...

[Al_Fel]

So what you're saying is......

We need to kill Tom Cruise?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

So what you're saying is......

We need to kill Tom Cruise?

It couldn't hurt...

[beigemaster]

But it's incredibly difficult, so I understand, for someone of any other faith to become a Jew. Isn't that weird?

I can't really follow either of those points I'm afraid. I think it's pretty safe to say that nothing in the bible actually happened and that all the stories are 'metaphors' and, if assumed to be taken literally are bull shit. If the creation story is bullshit then surely it has to point to the rest of the book (religion?) being bull shit too (in the sense that the stories, not the meanings, are ficticious).

As for Scientology I think you'll find that if Tom Cruise were to fly down from the sky in front of a bunch of reliable sources, film crews, photographers etc and start preaching that he has seen Xenu and Scientology is the only way forwards then there would be mass conversions and a lot of people would start following him as the new Jesus. Not kidding. And as Anal says, chances are in 2000 years there will probably be a thread on 'jet bike observed trials on Neptune-forum.com' wondering how half the population of Earth could possibly believe some stupid story about an alien, a volcano and some strange little man who's stuck in a closet but was considered to be the saviour of mankind...

Well that is a fairly narrow minded way of looking at it, remember the bible is effectively 66 books which are written in different styles and different people. Some are poetry, some historical account and others are letters. You can't white wash the whole Bible with "well none of this happened", if you are going to do that then you would have to do the same thing with regards to Plato, Aristotle, Julius Caesar, Marcus Aurelius or any other ancient historical figure. (FYI, there is far more historical evidence for Jesus Christ, at least as a historical figure, than any other the people I just mentioned)

Another little example was that historians originally thought Babylon was only a fictional place since the only evidence for it was in the bible, well, until they found the historical remains of the city.

Should we kill Tom Cruise? If we did then who would we have left to ridicule in the super rich bat sh1t crazy Hollywood elite?

[Joe O'Connor]

When you look at what Scientology does. Its just like all cults there have been. They just want money. Like here in New Zealand, there is one called Destiny Church and all the guy wants is people to give him money and gifts. Thats how they all work, Scientology is so big because it has movie stars as members. And they all end up with everyone killing themselves anyway, so you dont have to worry about killing Tom Curise because he will do it himself soon enough.

Plus, How can Christianity be fake when there is a huge book about everything that happened/happens (The bible) and that it has managed to get 30% of the worlds population to believe and that it has been around for over 2000 years?

No cult has ever been like that and never will.

[Greetings]

Don't you guys think that religion makes the world more interesting? It defines cultures, differentiates them.

Personally I find that video shocking, but interesting. And that's what makes it worth while, it's something different. If we were all the same this place would be boring.

It has caused lots of problems, millions of people have died or had their lives ruined because of religion. But I'm pretty sure that religion is just an excuse and if it didn't exist, people would easily find a reason to fight each other over something else. Football hooligans for example? It's on a small scale, but the principle is the same.

edit: Another thing I don't understand is that you shouldn't talk about religion. What's the big deal, if you tell a Christian that you don't believe in god straight to their face, will they go off and cry or feel bad because of that? We believe in many things, maybe that a political party is doing a good job or not. But politics isn't considered a touchy subject now is it. If somebody disagrees with us in such areas, we discuss it, try to understand the opposing view and convince the other person to ours. But with religion it's always better to keep quiet? Or do Christians feel like you've just told them that their wife/husband is fat and ugly?

Edited January 27, 2010 by Greetings

[Joe O'Connor]

Or do Christians feel like you've just told them that their wife/husband is fat and ugly?

In the bible it tells to go forth and spread the word of Christ. So they do, but some go about it the rong way.

Instead of discussing and understanding non believers views, they jump on them and say that you HAVE to believe or nothing will be good for you and blah blah blah.

And it gives them a bad image, and everyone labels Christians as being narow minded and not open to anything else.

The only reason Christians would feel like you ask, is because they think that when they do tell you off about not believing they dont see what they are doing wrong and feel offended when people tell them they are a looney, when even I would be off put by that! People like that have caused lots of people to be put off Christianity.

I will admit that a majority of Christians are idiots and are doing more harm than good. But there are good ones out there.

[beigemaster]

I will admit that a majority of Christians are idiots and are doing more harm than good. But there are good ones out there.

I will admit that a majority of humans are idiots and are doing more harm than good. But there are good ones out there.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Plus, How can Christianity be fake when 1 there is a huge book about everything that happened/happens (The bible) and that 2 it has managed to get 30% of the worlds population to believe and that it has been around for over 2000 years?

1: There's also a very readable series of books based on a very special young man who is the saviour of mankind without ever asking for his gifts. He had a scar shaped lightning bolt on his forehead. Did Jesus? Didn't think so .

2: Because people are (were moreso in days gone by) gullible and uneducated so when people told them that this is how it is, follow this or you will spend eternity in excruciating pain having a pinapple inserted in your anus while pushing a rock uphill. If I knew no better I'd probably've done what they ask just in case they were right! However I do know better.

What's the big deal, if you tell a Christian that you don't believe in god straight to their face, will they go off and cry or feel bad because of that?

Because deep down they know what they believe is questional at best and completely insane at worst. [/sarcasm but not really]

[anzo]

For f**k sake, how many of you people have actually met a Christian that will tell you you're going to rot in hell and all this? None. You all seem to be taking what you see on television as a generalization of Christians - you think people like Ned Flanders are in every Church?

The reason you hear about some people like that is because they take it to the extreme, so they appear on TV as some Christian lunatic that everyone takes the piss out of. Go into your local church on a Sunday, watch the service and leave - they won't try and drag you into their religion, they won't even outcast you if you're not religious. Sure they'll preach about God but what do you expect?

Most Christians are for the good - they fund raise for certain causes, they educate, they do alsorts within the community!

The 'Christians are idiots' comment, get a grip. How do you justify this? Simply because they believe in something that you don't? Well...tell us about you're life and why we should all be like you?

Edit: Christians will not be offended if you tell them you don't believe in it. I've done it countless times and they respect opinions.

[Joe O'Connor]

For f**k sake, how many of you people have actually met a Christian that will tell you you're going to rot in hell and all this? None. You all seem to be taking what you see on television as a generalization of Christians - you think people like Ned Flanders are in every Church?

The reason you hear about some people like that is because they take it to the extreme, so they appear on TV as some Christian lunatic that everyone takes the piss out of. Go into your local church on a Sunday, watch the service and leave - they won't try and drag you into their religion, they won't even outcast you if you're not religious. Sure they'll preach about God but what do you expect?

Most Christians are for the good - they fund raise for certain causes, they educate, they do alsorts within the community!

The 'Christians are idiots' comment, get a grip. How do you justify this? Simply because they believe in something that you don't? Well...tell us about you're life and why we should all be like you?

Edit: Christians will not be offended if you tell them you don't believe in it. I've done it countless times and they respect opinions.

Put into words what I was trying to say!

We had a guy walk into the middle of a service and sit at the front and then leave. One of the Elders at the church went and talked to him, but not to try convert him or whatever, but to be friendly and nice!

If you are refering to me about the Christians are idiots, Im a Christian so I wasnt refering to all. I meant the ones who go about spreading the word wrong (Pretty much the ones seen on TV).

I wont be offended if I get told some one doesnt believe, infact a majority of my mates are not followers and one of my best mates is about as Atheist as you can get, and we often discus faith and what not.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

how many of you people have actually met a Christian that will tell you you're going to rot in hell and all this? None.

I've known a couple who thought that things like 9/11 were God's will and of course the freaks who preach on the streets reading passages from the Bible... They're out there though of course that's a minority.

[beigemaster]

1: There's also a very readable series of books based on a very special young man who is the saviour of mankind without ever asking for his gifts. He had a scar shaped lightning bolt on his forehead. Did Jesus? Didn't think so .

2: Because people are (were moreso in days gone by) gullible and uneducated so when people told them that this is how it is, follow this or you will spend eternity in excruciating pain having a pinapple inserted in your anus while pushing a rock uphill. If I knew no better I'd probably've done what they ask just in case they were right! However I do know better.

1.Book ≠ Story/Fiction

2.It’s a common misconception that people 'in days gone by' were more gullible/ignorant/stupid. Remember, effectively your life and whole of humanity was built on previous people's ideas, many of which were hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Second, what do people have to gain by effectively scaring them into following a message? If these people were con artists, what did they get out of it? Well, if bother to look back into history, you will find out that most of them gained the benefits of poverty and eventually a violent death. Still, good con though right?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

1.Book ≠ Story/Fiction

2.It’s a common misconception that people 'in days gone by' were more gullible/ignorant/stupid. Remember, effectively your life and whole of humanity was built on previous people's ideas, many of which were hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Second, what do people have to gain by effectively scaring them into following a message? If these people were con artists, what did they get out of it? Well, if bother to look back into history, you will find out that most of them gained the benefits of poverty and eventually a violent death. Still, good con though right?

1. Bible = 99% Story/Fiction. A guess of course but burning bushes, great floods, parting of seas, talking snakes? I call bullshit .

2. Of course there were some incredibly intelligent people thousands of years ago but we did have the dark ages when it would appear everyone forgot all the useful things the human race had learned and suddenly went a bit retarded... At that point the church owned all the land and was the most powerful body in Britain. There were the Crusades as well when in the name of God thousands of people were ethnically cleansed because Jesus was a white man from Oxford.

I guess that then leads to the reason for scaring people. There was (is?) a lot of money and power involved in Christianity and by scaring the weak public into believing in you there was a lot to gain. Any free thinkers (heretics) were murdered so they couldn't spread the knowledge they had gained. I think the Church has a lot to answer for and considering it's based on he bible (which I think is as factually based as Harry Potter) they don't have a leg to stand on.