Benefits

[anzo]

Looking over some of the people I went to school with and most seem to have children now, but the increasing rate of single mothers is a little distrubing; I'm guessing the majority of 'to be fathers' get the next bus out of town.

I can't help but wonder what the mindset is of these people. I'll openly admit I'm selfish and I tend to have a bit of a cruel overlook to certain things, however, what happened to people having kids when they could afford it?

I know of several couples who have had kids when they were really strapped for cash; and the first time motherly advice has now seemed to change to "Get on t' DWP, get you' benefits!" and then blame "the goverment" when it's not enough.

I just don't understand the logic in some mothers that somehow think becoming a mother means it's your right and civil duty to obtain benefit credits...its a baby, not a f**king nectar card.

Maybe its just my inability to love a child, the thought of the 'protective mother' makes me think of some 40 something, obese woman, cigarette in one hand, in her slippers gobbing off to the neighbour becuase they shouted at her son for jumping on their car in the local council estate.

So...the benefit system. Good? Bad? Experience? Thoughts?

Discuss.

[JD™]

Looking over some of the people I went to school with and most seem to have children now,

Good thread, I can see some heated debates going on here...

Totally agree with most of what you say there. There are, of course, exceptions though. There's plenty of young girls out there who get knocked up fully believing the Dad will be there to support her and that they'll be OK. My friend Lisa is one of these, they split up about 4 months after the kid was born and she's been alone ever since. She does rely on benefits but is getting back into work now. Without those benefits the life of both her and her child would have been totally f**ked.

Another example is my own Mum. My Dad didn't leave till I was 9, but up till then my Mum had pretty much never had a job because she'd got married and had me and my sister young. Never thought she'd be left alone so it was a shock to the system. Again, benefits helped her out. Despite trying hard and stopping them several times, we always ended up back in the same situation because it actually works out more logical to stay on the benefits unless the career prospects are there - as often they aren't. It wasn't till I was about 16 that she finally managed to get a foot hold in the job market and she's never needed to go back on them, obviously because both me and my sister don't live there anymore!

But yea, my point is that we shouldn't blame the benefit system so much as the people who abuse it and the companies who don't help those who want to come off them.

EDIT: Don't quote such long posts Jason, you retard.

Edited January 21, 2010 by JD™

[Sam-Addy A3]

I agree with pretty much everything you just said haha.

Why do people have kids when they knowingly don't have the funds to give it a good life?

Maybe it's a way to get onto benefits easier...hmm.....

Anyway, benefits can be fantastic for say somebody that is disabled and can't earn enough/any money because of their disability. But whatreally frustrates me is people that just live off of the tax payer because 'all the fukin immigrints steeelin da jobsss'

[sideburns(dnt ask)]

Like everything the benefit system is flawed. People will always take these things for granted. Some people are happy to spend their life sitting on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle

with their nine kids. Other people do find themselves in the position where they need some help to survive. At the moment im trying my hardest to get some help with housing after an

eviction due to the loss of my job. It's the last thing i want to do but i'm going to have to get that help to avoid live at the third bus shelter from the left.

I do think that their should be stricter medicals for people claiming for things such as incapacity benefit, and we should have a limit on children per income households. Unless it's unavoidable like twins.

Just my thoughts

Peace x

[ilikeriding]

Would you rather the consequences of no benefit system?

[Jolfa]

There's plenty of young girls out there who get knocked up fully believing the Dad will be there to support her and that they'll be OK.

I know a girl in this situation, this could have been easily prevented if she used her f**king brain for once.

[Spikenipple]

Would you rather the consequences of no benefit system?

Well actually, yes. The number of twats who rely on the benefits system instead of actively trying to get work far outweighs the number of people who genuinely need it.

[MadManMike]

No benefit system would be ridiculous.

I was made redundant a couple of years ago - I would have been totally f**ked if I couldn't have gone on benefits. They don't need to scrap them, they just need to use more common sense when dishing them out.

[bikeperson45]

What gets on my nerves is people that aren't happily unemployed and get benifits. I was reading in Now magazine (that's right, I read Now magazine) this article on a woman going "Yeh, I live off benifits and I like it so I'm never gonna get a job again.." Hows it fair that people that are working everyday and getting taxed have their earned money taken away and given too people that can't be bothered to work. Sure, save it for people that need it, but not for lazy bums like her.

[Jaffacakes]

I signed on to job seekers allowance the day I arrived back in the UK after pissing all my money up the wall for 4 months. Got to get my taxes from last year back before I start working again next month

I havnt had any money yet though, scabs.

[Borat]

I get rediciously angry at people on benifits for a 15 year old without a job.

Sounds weird, but it just really bugs me. I don't give a shit if there is anyone on here who lives off benifits and I upset them. Scum living off benifits either need to get a job and do something with their scummy chavy lives. Or get shot!

Rant over.

[Danny Metcalfe]

You Dont Know How difficult it actually is.

You cant just Sign here and Get Sum Moniez.

A lot Goes into Processing.

Speaking From Someone Who Has Experiance in Benefit Processing.

Have to be very careful as to what i can say though, for obvious reasons.

Thers 4 Main Benefits,

Income Support- For Single Parents And Such

Jobseekers Allowance - Unemployment Benefit

Incapacity Benefit - Old Sick Benefit

Employment Support Allowance - New Sick Benefit

There mostly worked out based on your NI Contributions, So how much Youve paid into the pot,

And Also the household Income, Asin How Much Much money comes into the household, which also includes, partners incomes, and such.

With Regards to people Claiming, It is a hard way of life, having to scrimp and save to live of the money the benefit provides, its not a massive amount.

And Alot Of the time, People Don't Have A Choice

theres alot of cinacism in the press with regards to staff at JCP, and Our Customers.

[MadManMike]

Makes me laugh how claimants are referred to as "Customers".

If I was a "Customer", then the customer service was terrible - the lady I had to "sign with" every couple of weeks really tried to make me feel 2 foot tall, she attempted to destroy my self esteem and ultimately constantly accused me of doing nothing to find a job. My response to her was "You seriously think I enjoy living on 8p noodles?!". The last thing I said to her was, at my final signing: "Hah, result, looks like I'll be earning more than you now. Take care...".

I'm sure they're not all that bad, but she was a proper Nazi.

[Danny Metcalfe]

yeah, but its PC to call claiments customers,

Thing is the people who do work in the JCP's Don't Actually process the claims..

[anzo]

I understand the point of benefits, and I can't really fault it - if I lost my job I would have no other choice but to use it. However the point I was getting at is it seems that people believe the benefit system to be a Human Right, not a privledge.

The point hundreds of teenage mothers are giving birth everyday and telling the Department of Work and Pensions about it before most of their friends and family.

I have a mate out of work, he has been for 3 months and simply refuses to sign on - the way I see it, signing on is just getting the money back which you paid for anyway; but as Mike said, I can see people being shamed into not taking that action.

[OD404]

I guess like a lot of things, our view on this is scewed by the type of press the benefit system receives. It does seem to me like we hear all to often about the people claiming benefits and living off them with no intention of finding work, but I wonder what percentage of the total amount of people claiming they actually represent.

I feel personally that if the system enables even a minority to live off it and feel like they don't need to go to work, then it is probably not strict enough, but with respect to anzo's first post concerning having children, we are left in a sticky situation. On the one hand you'd want to discourage procreation for purpose of obtaining benefits, but at the same time, if a child is born, we should support it if the parent(s) has no means to. Perhaps limiting how the child benefits can be spent would help (I'll admit, not having kids or the inability to support them means I don't really know how it works, so feel free to correct me )?

[mr_malcolm]

IMHO I think that like there is a legal age for sex there should be a legal age for having a child and I would say this should be around 20. As if you have a child under this age it should be put into foster care no ifs no buts. Or if you keep the child you have to be working after X amount of maternaty time to receive any form of bennifits, this would stop the children having children situation all accross the country. I went to have a check up a while ago with the miss's and theyre were 3 girls in there around 17 one of wich had 2 kids the others had one each and were probably around 2/3 years old complaining about their free flat and how little spare money they have from their benefits after they have paid for food etc etc to spend on going down town or going out. Yet not one of them mentioned getting a part time job or something they just talked about ways to get more benefits to spend on themselfs.

Needless to say this annoyed me a lot as I work full time and pay rent so does my other half and then we get told we cant even claim for any form of financial help towards renting privatly and if we want to be on a council house ( not really but ) we have to join a massive long waiting list. One woman even said to us if you have a child you will be moved up the list. At that point i was close to telling her to jog on.

Rant over

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

In my mind a hell of a lot would be solved by mass sterilisation of the population from certain areas... They wouldn't need to be told, or asked (something in the water maybe...) but it would certainly help if a lot of chavvy, wastes of life families happened to become obsolete. They know who they are. Or maybe they don't. Meh.

[Matt Vandart]

IMHO I think that like there is a legal age for sex there should be a legal age for having a child and I would say this should be around 20. As if you have a child under this age it should be put into foster care no ifs no buts. Or if you keep the child you have to be working after X amount of maternaty time to receive any form of bennifits, this would stop the children having children situation all accross the country. I went to have a check up a while ago with the miss's and theyre were 3 girls in there around 17 one of wich had 2 kids the others had one each and were probably around 2/3 years old complaining about their free flat and how little spare money they have from their benefits after they have paid for food etc etc to spend on going down town or going out. Yet not one of them mentioned getting a part time job or something they just talked about ways to get more benefits to spend on themselfs.

Needless to say this annoyed me a lot as I work full time and pay rent so does my other half and then we get told we cant even claim for any form of financial help towards renting privatly and if we want to be on a council house ( not really but ) we have to join a massive long waiting list. One woman even said to us if you have a child you will be moved up the list. At that point i was close to telling her to jog on.

Rant over

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of bollox I have ever heard in my entire life.

Fostering and adoption agencies have a hard enough time relocating kids already.

It is also a financially unsound idea and would end up costing more than just giving the mothers benefits.

It is so inhumane it is unbelievable you would think it let alone say it in public.

Countries need children and the average age in this country is getting higher all the time.

[quick_spider]

Well actually, yes. The number of twats who rely on the benefits system instead of actively trying to get work far outweighs the number of people who genuinely need it.

How'd you work that one out? You been speaking to the same scientists as Dr Fox?

Genetically, paedophiles have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you or me. Now that's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it but it is scientific fact.

[beigemaster]

FYI, I am currently writing a research project (3rd year of uni) on the new welfare reform ideas such as "Pathways to work" and this thread contains some interesting (although some rather predictable) ideas so keep up the good work Has anyone heard about ESAs replacing incapacity benefits? Any views on this particular area? Essentially, it's the government’s way of weeding out those who claim incapacity but could potentially be working.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Essentially, it's the government’s way of weeding out those who claim incapacity but could potentially be working.

My mum works with a physio up in Scotland who's working on the scheme. Hate the way they call them 'customers' but otherwise it is at least trying to weed out the real wastes of life from those who could actually make something of themselves. However she also works on the childrens panel and a lot of them would benefit from sterilisation at birth...

[mr_malcolm]

I'm sorry but that is the biggest load of bollox I have ever heard in my entire life.

Fostering and adoption agencies have a hard enough time relocating kids already.

It is also a financially unsound idea and would end up costing more than just giving the mothers benefits.

It is so inhumane it is unbelievable you would think it let alone say it in public.

Countries need children and the average age in this country is getting higher all the time.

Each to their own we are all entilted to our opinions, From where i grew up the amount of 16/17 year olds with kids who have never worked a day in their life is pretty common. Infact most of the chavy girls in my year at school have all had kids already most of them shortly after finishing school. It just makes me sick to my back teeth that mineand your taxes go to them to house them and then pay for their child whos dad jumped ship straight away who also doesnt work therefore cant pay any child support. Yeah their the cases where sh*t happends as so to speak and i do feel for them. But when you get told by some one in the housing office "have a child and then you will be prioratised for a house" what sort of thing is that to say really?

I just think a lot of things in this country are done backwards like the face people who work and pay tax etc get treated worse then those that dont by our goverment. When you see on the news or in the newspapers about those familys living on benfitis in houses bigger and more expensive then i will ever be able to afford makes me pretty angry.

If you want to know why i have these views. Its mostly due to my family being classed as homeless for a few months bouncing from available sofas/floors/spare rooms in freinds in familys houses. We now currently live in my nans 3 bedroom house where there are currently 7 people living my family, my aunt and her son and my nan. We cant get council housing as me and my Dad both work therefore should be able to rent privatly. due to my mum having brain damage from a stroke and struggles to hold down a job we cant afford to rent anywhere as we cant afford the bills / deposit.

[ogre]

ESAs

?

[beigemaster]

Rather than incapacity benefit, people receive ESAs- employment support allowance. Basically if you are considered eligible for working, you are given a set amount of money but you have to go to mandatory work based interviews and employment training schemes. Basically, you have to take active steps to find work or you don't receive any money. If you do find work, you receive an extra £40 a week if you're earning less than £15k a year.

Summary can be found here