anzo Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Yer but Anzo they're obviously gonna tone stuff down for their official statement, there was much more extremist shit on their website. The BNP don't mention racism etc in official releases but dyou believe they're not racist? Depends...It goes back to what you read in the media, I'm not involved with Islam4UK or the BNP so my only opinion of them is what I learn from the Media. I don't trust the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 This has been cancelled but they are denying it was a publicity stunt? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8451014.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 your really are a arrangant nobhead. welcome to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 It's f**king ridiculous. Ofcourse our soldiers should be honoured for losing their lives in battle. The fact that this group see it as "totally unacceptable" infurates me. If they want to honour the Muslims that have been killed they can do it in their own country. You do realise that you can be Muslim but live in this country, right? Or can you only be Christian to live in the UK? I guess all of us atheists had better go too then. Which country am I from? So they have to plan it by writing for permission? Yep, that's what I was saying before. Everyone's crying about these Muslims, yet no-one gave a shit about the fact that we no longer are allowed to protest or demonstrate freely, and we have to have written consent to voice our disapproval of something. It's interesting how all the media kept that shit under wraps and didn't blow that up, but are making a huge deal out of this potential issue that hadn't even been confirmed. I guess talking about important political stuff probably doesn't really get as many readers as making stories about those pesky Muslim terrorist extremists to tap into the massive racist readership around the UK. Yer but Anzo they're obviously gonna tone stuff down for their official statement, there was much more extremist shit on their website. The BNP don't mention racism etc in official releases but dyou believe they're not racist? There's a bit more proof about the BNP (e.g. their leader being done for inciting racial hatred) more than this group? I don't agree with everything they do at all, but like I said before, they're marching for the same reasons that a significant amount of the UK marched for before - the fact that by a fairly pointless occupation of a foreign country we've killed hundreds of thousands of people, and made many more seriously ill. The amount of people who became seriously ill and died immediately after the invasion of Iraq because the allied forces destroyed their sanitation and water systems then did f**k all to repair them or help them is pretty nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Quinn Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 There's a bit more proof about the BNP (e.g. their leader being done for inciting racial hatred) more than this group? To be honest I'd rather not go on it again to dig up quotes, but their own website seemed pretty over the line to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David20 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 You do realise that you can be Muslim but live in this country, right? Or can you only be Christian to live in the UK? I guess all of us atheists had better go too then. Which country am I from? Ofcourse I realise that. The muslims that have been killed from the war aren't UK citizens though are they? Our soldiers that have been killed on the other hand are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Ofcourse I realise that. The muslims that have been killed from the war aren't UK citizens though are they? Our soldiers that have been killed on the other hand are. That's not what he's saying. He's suggesting that you made being Muslim sound like a nationality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David20 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I didn't make it sound like a nationality at all. "Their own country" being the country the Muslims were killed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I seeeeee. Just pop on a BMI Baby flight to Afghanistan? People can't travel to 'their own country'. So what if they did honour the dead innocent people in this country? It's probably us that killed them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I seeeeee. Just pop on a BMI Baby flight to Afghanistan? People can't travel to 'their own country'. So what if they did honour the dead innocent people in this country? It's probably us that killed them anyway. It wasn't me, should they be allowed to protest on my doorstep? They are protesting against the deaths of innocent people, who just happen to be bystanders in a war which is there to protect the majority of them. A few die, so be it. It's for the greater good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It wasn't me, should they be allowed to protest on my doorstep? They are protesting against the deaths of innocent people, who just happen to be bystanders in a war which is there to protect the majority of them. A few die, so be it. It's for the greater good. Yes. They should be allowed to protest - it's your right to do so! How do you dictate what is allowed to be protested and what is not? Then it's not freedom of speech, it's freedom of speech within the guidelines of the government...which has happened regardless. What exactly is the war protecting them from? An enemy to Westerners that's all around them? Enemies that we'll never defeat? It's not like fighting a regular army here, there is not control centre or HQ. Civilians dying is not for the greater good, especially in such war that's deemed as pointless? So having you're family wiped out by an imposing Army would be acceptable if the tables were turned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Lad Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I propose we start a real atheist movement where we campaign for total secularism. I no longer want to be held to ransom by mystics and the superstitious. I'm sick to death of people thinking they have to pansy around the opinions and beliefs of people who've formed those beliefs based on no evidence or reason. A power shift is long overdue and people of reason, knowledge and understanding should be able to take control of their lives and how they are governed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCottTrials Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I propose we start a real atheist movement where we campaign for total secularism. I no longer want to be held to ransom by mystics and the superstitious. I'm sick to death of people thinking they have to pansy around the opinions and beliefs of people who've formed those beliefs based on no evidence or reason. A power shift is long overdue and people of reason, knowledge and understanding should be able to take control of their lives and how they are governed. I agree, there is no respect for people that believe in facts. Only politically correct concern for people with ridiculous beliefs in all powerful beings. viva la resistance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-man Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Any of them do it they get a 10 year prison sentence it was saying on the radio today. If it happens, expect scenes from 80's football riots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I propose we start a real atheist movement where we campaign for total secularism. I no longer want to be held to ransom by mystics and the superstitious. I'm sick to death of people thinking they have to pansy around the opinions and beliefs of people who've formed those beliefs based on no evidence or reason. A power shift is long overdue and people of reason, knowledge and understanding should be able to take control of their lives and how they are governed. Although I appreciate what you're saying in one regard about certain religions, be careful about tarring all 'religion' with the same brush. Religions such as Buddhism and Daoism, both for a substantial part in terms of differing sects, are both reasoning and empirical practices. Specifically with Buddhism, some sects within these 'religions' are superstitious (devotional or "bhakti"), but usually this related to Buddhism amalgamating with a differing religion. The fundamentals of Buddhism however, relating to the Buddha's actual teaching is essentially atheistic (you might like to hear), in so much as he denies any importance to speculation regarding the existence or non-existence of a God or Gods. The Buddha simply wasn't interested in the potential of God. Buddhism is purely about developing your perception in line with the actual nature of existence in relation to the transcending of suffering. It's basically about truth, altruism, love and happiness. Then again, Buddhism has been used as an excuse for war in the past although this clearly does not relate to its proper intention. The point is to looking at the differing parts (sects and original meaning/intention) that constitute a religion and consider them in their own right and not confuse the actions of one for all. Exactly as we might a race or culture of people. "Mystics", pushing aside the interpretation that relates to certain new-age practices and faith, is a practice based on evidence through experience. I have had mystical experiences and they related to differing ways of considering the world that have emotional and perceptual consequences that carry with them very desirable benefit. So again, there is some of what you say that falls under the title of mystic but it is not all true. If however you are willing to totaly deny my position without any experience of what I refer to yourself, then you are liable to the same criticism you level at the "mystics". It's also interesting that you say of people that they should be able to take control of their lives and how they are governed but simaltaneously you are promoting the idea of potentially enforcing a situation whereby people aren't given the choice to chose of religion or not. Unless by campaining you mean something other constructing a law against religion? Sorry for picking on you, Danny but I enjoy debating (arguing?) with you. I do actually concur with much of your sentiments however just in a soemwhat differing way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Lad Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Here you go again with your 'eastern solution' to religion. You may also consider learning a bit more about secularism. Government is too intwined with religion and this has a marked influence on it's decision making and forming of laws. It is not enough to argue that this reflects the public it serves because that is simply not true. From a heterophenomenological point of view it is very easily justifiable for me to 'push aside' your 'mystical experiences'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I propose we start a real atheist movement where we campaign for total secularism. I no longer want to be held to ransom by mystics and the superstitious. I'm sick to death of people thinking they have to pansy around the opinions and beliefs of people who've formed those beliefs based on no evidence or reason. A power shift is long overdue and people of reason, knowledge and understanding should be able to take control of their lives and how they are governed. DO IT!! When was the last time you saw a Buddhist being offended by a Christmas tree or demanding that they must be allowed to wear sandals and shave their head otherwise they'll sue their employer/government/parent? Never because there may actually be some logical reasoning to what they do rather than just praying blindly 20 times a day because they were told to... Buddhism doesn't seem to be as much a religion as a way of thinking and training the mind from what I can see (therefore I don't hate it like most religions ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It still irks me that in my state junior school I had to sing hymns and repeat prayers, and that in court you swear on a bible. It's the 21st century, and this crap needs to go. It's disappointing that the offence of inciting religious hatred has taken us, if anything, a step backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It still irks me that in my state junior school I had to sing hymns and repeat prayers, and that in court you swear on a bible. I see what you're saying, but it doesn't hurt anyone. I did the whole hymns, prayers thing...but in the back of my mind I knew I wasn't religious and I really didnt give a shit. They've been doing that longer than living memory and the majority of those didn't turn out to be religious - if all it takes is a sing song and a prayer to change your personal views then you're going to get nowhere in life. Of course, you could refuse the prayers - or even request your child not be a part of it, but with things like that in school, it's the first stage of of being 'the outcast'. I know, I had friends who rejected all that stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Quinn Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I see what you're saying, but it doesn't hurt anyone. In year 5 i got a detention for a week because I said to the RS teacher I didn't believe in heaven when she tried to insist I draw what I thought it looked like Needless to say, my mum went into school and shit hit the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I see what you're saying, but it doesn't hurt anyone. But it does - it conditions us to accept religion. It conditions us to walk past a church and not point and laugh ourselves to tears at the fact that some guys built an elaborate building so that they could talk to an imaginary guy. This is also the problem with non-secular states - they end up brainwashing people in the most impressionable years of their lives. And even in countries such as ours, where people can make a choice, it would be a damn sight easier if schools made pupils aware of all types of religion but didn't in any way suggest one was 'the one', or that a religion is needed for safe passage through life. It's just a tradition that we can't seem to get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 But it does - it conditions us to accept religion. It conditions us to walk past a church and not point and laugh ourselves to tears at the fact that some guys built an elaborate building so that they could talk to an imaginary guy. This is also the problem with non-secular states - they end up brainwashing people in the most impressionable years of their lives. And even in countries such as ours, where people can make a choice, it would be a damn sight easier if schools made pupils aware of all types of religion but didn't in any way suggest one was 'the one', or that a religion is needed for safe passage through life. It's just a tradition that we can't seem to get rid of. Although most people are quick to point out the bad things in religion, it also teaches a lot of good. Most 3rd world countries are pretty hardcore christians and they do teach that early on in schools, as well as their parents - but living in such a shitty environment I do think it's nice to believe in such a thing, it means that whatever happens around the corner from life isn't all shit and doom. I don't agree with a lot of religious aspects...but I don't see what harm it does either, it's never harmed me - of course people will say it evokes terrorism and all that, but these are not true Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Most 3rd world countries are pretty hardcore christians and they do teach that early on in schools, as well as their parents - but living in such a shitty environment I do think it's nice to believe in such a thing, it means that whatever happens around the corner from life isn't all shit and doom. And whose fault is that? Yup, ours thanks to 'missionaries'... Maybe without that they would still be evil 'savages' believing in harmless gods in the stars or earth rather than killing each other for arguing whether Jesus went to Cambridge or Oxford... people will say it evokes terrorism and all that, but these are not true Muslims. See, you say that, but then I just think about all that shite that happened when the cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb in his turban. Those weren't 'extremist' terrorists burning danish flags and demanding that the Danish government execute the guy, those were your normal average muslims from what I could tell. They've just been programmed to massively overreact on command and have literally zero idea of humour. Pillars of society right there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Lad Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I do think it's nice to believe in such a thing, It's nice to believe in fairies but that doesn't make it true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 It's nice to believe in fairies but that doesn't make it true. I never said it was true? Or that it justifies being true? I just don't see why people have such a problem with people believing in what they want to believe...it's their choice, not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.