The Philosophy And Life Q&a Thread

[1a2bcio8]

I had planned to write more but couldn't, I almost need to draw it or something.

I suppose we'll never know if nothing exists, the only we'll experience it is before conception and after death where we're part of the nothingness? But then if we are part of it surely that must make it something, unless it actually is nothing so there is nothing to be a part of...

When I think of nothing I think of black space before anything like God or something. However then I can't even imagine it not having any sort of boundary, that seems impossible to me and if it had a boundary would there be anything on the other side?

I think you're still making nothing into a something. Nothing cannot exist by definition. Nothing is not to be experienced, it is simply the absence of experience regarding a thing, event, etc. When you say you think of "God" or a "black space", as what "nothing" is, this is to create a something and contradict the meaning of nothing. Or, in other words, you make no-thing a thing. If you think of nothing in terms of what can be experienced this is a something and not a nothing.

The trouble is, we are so used to our words refering to some 'thing' (car, etc.) that exists that when one doesn't we still assume it does. A "car" refers to an 4 wheeled object and "Ben" refers to myself. But "nothing" doesn't really refer to anything. It just indicates an absence of a "car" or "Ben" which isn't a thing like an actual "car" or "Ben".

A similar way in which language creates this confusion is with the terms "energy" and "matter". Saying the two separate words seems to suggest that there are two separate kinds of entity; one called "energy" and one called "matter". But they are just two ways of refering to different aspects of the same thing. For instance, to say that my hand moves is not to suggest that my hand and its movement are separate things. Just that my hand (matter) is being active (energy). Can you separate the activity of my hand from my hand? Only in language....

This is headf**k subject though. I just think it's really worth understanding the nature of language before we start asking questions with it. Whenever we end up with a paradox like, "nothing" exists (a definite contradiction) then probably we have just misused our logic and language. Paradox doesn't exist anywhere other than in our heads and our methods of representation (language, logic, etc.).

Definitely a confusing subject area. Even though I subscribe to what I say I struggle to understand with a great deal of confidence.

[Max Quinn]

Do you not think this relates to time as well as simply physical being, seeing as time is the 4th dimension. If there is no time for something to exist, then there is true nothingness.

For example, we were chatting about the age old 'whats at the end of space thing' the other day and it's probably complete bullshit but it occured to me that if space is growing faster than time, then the time for the 'area' outside of space doesn't exist, giving us literally nothing.

[Matt Vandart]

Talking about this today, do you think there is such thing as nothing? I was thinking that fornothing to exist, there must be something meaning that there is nothing.

There is plenty of nothing, you are mostly made of 'nothing'.

Try not to think of it in terms of language cos it gets mixed up.

I guess this would fit in here.

A while (about 4/5 months) ago I nearly crashed my Focus, I was on a 60mph lane, doing 60mph going round a slight bend admittedly I was going too fast for the car, a car was oncoming that came out of nowhere and I absolutely shat myself but held it fine, almost clipping a curb, a little to the left and I would have lost control probably smashing into the oncoming car that was going about the same speed as me.

I just had this massive feeling hit me about what would have actually have happened if I would have hit it.

If I hit it and survived, what would I have known at the time? Would I have just blanked out and woken up in a hospital unable to move for the rest of my life in a vegetable state. Or would I have felt every single impact, every roll, every bit of pain?

If I hit it and died, how would I possibly have known that I'd died? (Sounds such a stupid question when I type it out, but think about it), but like, what would have happened to my thoughts etc,, would that be it, just an empty space, gone. Would you get to see the misery and pain your Family and friends felt when they heard about such tragedy, somehow?

I just don't understand what would happen, and it makes me so sad, just realising that that would be it, gone forever not being able to say goodbye to my Mum and Dad or anything all because of a little driving mistake.

I actually had to pull over the car straight after, sit back for 5 mins and just think about how f**king close I was to dying/being in such a tragedy, selfish.

Actually got a bit upset writing this out, guess it got to me that bad huh.

Edit: Who repped me and why? lol

Dude I have died in a road accident, you feel it all, the dying and everything, then Kabam!!!!! I was back.

Do you not think this relates to time as well as simply physical being, seeing as time is the 4th dimension. If there is no time for something to exist, then there is true nothingness.

For example, we were chatting about the age old 'whats at the end of space thing' the other day and it's probably complete bullshit but it occured to me that if space is growing faster than time, then the time for the 'area' outside of space doesn't exist, giving us literally nothing.

I like this but the only problem with this is that time is a human concept, 'the universe' itself, is not.

[dann2707]

very funny.

[1a2bcio8]

Do you not think this relates to time as well as simply physical being, seeing as time is the 4th dimension. If there is no time for something to exist, then there is true nothingness.

For example, we were chatting about the age old 'whats at the end of space thing' the other day and it's probably complete bullshit but it occured to me that if space is growing faster than time, then the time for the 'area' outside of space doesn't exist, giving us literally nothing.

What is "true" nothingness though? Again, as with bikeperson, I'd suggest you are creating a metaphysical something out of the word "nothing" which doesn't actually mean a metaphysical something. It is difficult to think of the meaning of "nothing" as not refering to some kind of existent, entity, object, stratum, etc. like a car or whatever but it doesn't do that. It literally just means to say that, for instance, a car is not here.

I'm not sure about space growing faster than time? Is this a reference to the expansion of matter within space? Or, put differently, the movement of planets, stars, etc. away from one another and further into the expanse of space? It's important to realise that this doesn't mean that space is expanding and thus has a border/edge; it means that something (matter) is moving within space. It's not like the edges of my bedroom expanding; it's more like me moving within my bedroom. Nobody knows about an edge to space because nobody has reached the limit of space, if even there is such a thing. And any limit can only be something that exists. Space cannot be limited by something which does not exist (nothing) by virtue of it's* non-existence! Only that which exists can exist with the rest of existence!1!1

*Refering to non-existence as an "it", which language somewhat forces me to do, illustrates the problem of language. Not existing is a negative but calling "not existing" by "it" is to place it in positive terms and suggest the existence of non-existence. "It" makes an illusionary something out of nothing.

edit: I've just been inspired to add something from what Matt just said. That another use of the word "nothing" is with regard to space itself. "Things" in this sense refer to matter and the space which exists between matter is not-"things" or nothing. This, of course, doesn't mean that space doesn't exist. Nor does it mean that nothing actually refers to the existence of space per se. It means, again, that we can think of the fact that matter is not occupying that space but it is not and saying "nothing is there" is just a convenient way of indicating to one another the state of matter (specifically locative) in relation to space.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Ben Rowlands

[Matt Vandart]

very funny.

No really, I am being 100% serious.

I hit a bus on a motorbike, flatlined the lot.

[JT!]

One thing that gets my goat is when people say they 'died'. If you die, and come back to life, you're either a zombie, or you were just in cardiac arrest for a period of time.

But yeah to actually go through that, can't even imagine.

[dann2707]

No really, I am being 100% serious.

I hit a bus on a motorbike, flatlined the lot.

Oh. Thought you were just taking the piss out of me in that inital post. The lack of detail and slight humour made it seem like a pisstaking thats all

Do you ever look back and realise stuff? And wonder how perfect you actually had it? Or just how much you enjoyed it? but at the time you didnt think of it much

I do it all the time...

For example, year 11 at school... at the time I didn't realise how significant it was... memories that included being on the field with our blazers off, playing football and doing pile-ons and just generally messing about in the common room. Now I look back and realise that's what defined my teenage school years.

Sixth form, at the time I hated it, it was boring as hell, hated the workload. Now I just look back and think of the awesome times getting up and driving to school at my own leisure, also the very first time driving to school in my own car and how scary it was. And all my amazing friends I made, how i miss walking to the shops with them. At the time it was just life, now I think and wow, just think i would love to be back there.

Another idea is when I worked at NEXT in whiterose, I remember doing 5pm while 10pm christmas shifts, going outside slipping all over on the ice to my car, letting it warm up for 10 mins then driving home and going to mcdonalds for chips on the way back. I just think how much i actually miss doing that :/

Now i'm typing this in my uni room, i know i'll be doing what i'm doing now about my past 5 years but about my time in halls and the people i've met this year but atm you don';t actually realise it.

Anyone else do this or am i just a weirdo? hha

[Dan6061]

I'm sure everyone looks back and reflects on things, I sure do!

Don't dwell on it though, use it as a way to look at what you have now, and make the most out of it.

[Matt Vandart]

One thing that gets my goat is when people say they 'died'. If you die, and come back to life, you're either a zombie, or you were just in cardiac arrest for a period of time.

But yeah to actually go through that, can't even imagine.

Your correct of course in the medical sense, I arrested but there is clearly more to it all than medical and scientific parameters.

I would say that pissing most of your blood (literally not figure of speech) over the road, having all the skin burnt off your back, arse and legs breaking over half of your major bones and then flat lining on the trolley just before they take you into theatre and being concious enough to hear it whilst having a fit and being knocked out by an anesthetist (not with drugs by the way), is as close as one can get to dying and not being a zombie.

If you are referring to the part of me that is me, i.e my soul, not having returned to God/Allah/Vishnu whatever, then I believe that some of it did. I appear to be pretty much incapable of many emotions since, but this may be psychological.

I had a very weird experience that went with all of this which people refer to as 'out of body' or 'Near death experience' which I am not going to go into here.

So I maybe you should get your goat and ram it up your arse IMO

See what I did there, goat, ram eh, eh.

Reading the notes from the a&e for the court case (5 years later) and actually seeing in type 'after the patient was resuscitated' or words to that effect was really weird.

[dann2707]

Bump! Any more thoughts and comments? me and my uni friends are in a philosophical mood!

[JT!]

Your correct of course in the medical sense, I arrested but there is clearly more to it all than medical and scientific parameters.

I wasn't putting down what you went though, I just have issue with the use of the word. To be dead is having lost your life.