Limey 320

[craigjames]

and you cant take the stickers off, which 90% of people complained about with zona, nice.

The graphics on the Zona were shit, these are hardly comparable.

[Davetrials]

But you're missing the point Dave. As someone with an eye for the aesthetic like yourself, if you were to decide to design say a camera that you knew was superior to anything out there but when you released it you made it look like a shoebox with a lens sticking out and had it painted in purple and green swirly hammerite paint it'd kinda be a bit stupid wouldn't it?

touche sir, still bit silly people care so much

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

touche sir, still bit silly people care so much

In theory I agree with you. What your bike looks like doesn't matter in the slightest. However, most people do like their bikes to look nice and since the frame is the biggest component (and possible source of colour) it makes sense to start there. I think my main point with all this is that after the raw prototype pictures of the 320 appeared in the Onza thread people loved it and were immediately asking what colour it'd be. Joe seemed open to suggestions (from the people who would actually be buying the thing) and there were plenty of sensible options put forwards and at no point was gold mentioned. If Jewish Racing Gold were a good choice for a trials bike you'd see a few around but do you? No. Because it looks crap.

The other side of all this is that this is supposed to be Onza's 'Pro Series' range which should've helped to improve the overall perception of the trials community that Onza only make budget bikes for newbies. Thr designs are pretty much on the money but by continuing to end up ruining them with bad colour choices and crap graphics they're just not helping themselves... One step forward and three steps back in my book.

Edit: Having just looked at all the 20" frames on Tarty, there isn't one (which isn't an Onza) that I would want to spray once I got it and seeing as the Pro Series is now (effectively) competing against things like the Koxx Skys, Rockmans, Atomz etc in my opinion they really need to up their game in the colour/graphics department to keep up. It's always been a deficiency of Onza (just think of the old T-Rex's- really good (if a bit heavy) frames with the tackiest paintjob ever) and I think now they're pushing for the performance market they really need to get their act together. I may not be very tactful sometimes (ever?) but I actually have nothing against Onza and really want them to be as successful as they ought to be but they keep shooting themselves in the foot!

[LukasMcNeal]

Jewish Racing Gold

I just googled that and its actually a colour!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I just googled that and its actually a colour!

I wouldn't go as far as that... It's a vaguely accepted sarcastic term for a pale gold car, started by Jeremy Clarkson I think.

[Kieran@ZSClothing]

This is bullshit, i think this frame looks so nice and the color looks nice!

[Matt Vandart]

In theory I agree with you. What your bike looks like doesn't matter in the slightest. However, most people do like their bikes to look nice and since the frame is the biggest component (and possible source of colour) it makes sense to start there. I think my main point with all this is that after the raw prototype pictures of the 320 appeared in the Onza thread people loved it and were immediately asking what colour it'd be. Joe seemed open to suggestions (from the people who would actually be buying the thing) and there were plenty of sensible options put forwards and at no point was gold mentioned. If Jewish Racing Gold :lol: were a good choice for a trials bike you'd see a few around but do you? No. Because it looks crap.

The other side of all this is that this is supposed to be Onza's 'Pro Series' range which should've helped to improve the overall perception of the trials community that Onza only make budget bikes for newbies. Thr designs are pretty much on the money but by continuing to end up ruining them with bad colour choices and crap graphics they're just not helping themselves... One step forward and three steps back in my book.-------A bit unfair, the skull is actually nice looking in real life

Edit: Having just looked at all the 20" frames on Tarty, there isn't one (which isn't an Onza) that I would want to spray once I go it and seeing as the Pro Series is now (effectively) competing against things like the Koxx Skys, Rockmans, Atomz etc in my opinion they really need to up their game in the colour/graphics department to keep up. It's always been a deficiency of Onza (just think of the old T-Rex's- really good (if a bit heavy) frames with the tackiest paintjob ever) and I think now they're pushing for the performance market they really need to get their act together. I may not be very tactful sometimes (ever?) but I actually have nothing against Onza and really want them to be as successful as they ought to be but they keep shooting themselves in the foot!--------------I agree totally with this statement.

--------------All rockmans= Yuk asthetic concept but you don't see many people slagging them/constructively criticizing them why target ONZA?

I think a major influence in the concept of the colour scheme of this bike is titled "plagiarism"

From Rockman the idea to anodize it- Not a bad idea in principal but Gold is not a good colour to choose really, I will not mind betting the farm that most of these bikes that stay gold will end up looking almost identical because there are only so many schemes that will work without looking puke.

And from Monty the idea of a gold bike, which also looks puke IMO.

I all fairness to Joe it is a really hard/bold decision to make to do anything other than silver/bog standard colour and whatever the colour it would have been shit on by some.

At the end of the day it's all down to whoever buys it to say to themselves "I like the frame but the colour is shit, do I wanna pay £300+ for a frame I gotta spray to like?" The more, ehem, mature of us won't give a monkeys and just go ahead and spray it. Others will not.

I dunno what all the rave is about those fans frames or whatever they are called but Joe maybe you should take a look at the idea of supplying the frames without the graphics applied and the customer could then spray the frame the colour they wanted and apply the graphics themselves, you could also have options on the graphics.

Everyone else you have to take the consideration that Joe is relatively new to the trials market and is feeling his way in it, I think really good things have come directly from Joe's management steps which out weigh any crappy colour or graphics choices.

Ben Savages White Limey really does look the Nuts much nicer than the black/silver

You could take this a step further and supply the bikes in a raw Finnish, which funnily enough everyone liked.

Dave I only really quoted your post as it seemed to some up all the negative opinions in one neat post not because my reply is aimed at your post directly.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I think really good things have come directly from Joe's management steps which out weigh any crappy colour or graphics choices.

I don't really know what Joe's involvment has been but at the end of the day Onza exist to sell trials bikes and frames. As said before, they could make the bestest frames in the world but if they aren't liked by the publlic (for whatever reason) then the whole things becomes pointless and that becomes even more silly if that reason is poor colour/graphics choice. The entire thing boils down to (not) learning from mistakes and completely ignoring the potential customers opinions. As said before I honestly want Onza to be very successful but they continue to make bad decisions.

[josh barker]

the colour looks a lot better when the bike is next to you it looks more silvery in the shadows

[Matt Vandart]

I don't really know what Joe's involvment has been but at the end of the day Onza exist to sell trials bikes and frames. As said before, they could make the bestest frames in the world but if they aren't liked by the publlic (for whatever reason) then the whole things becomes pointless and that becomes even more silly if that reason is poor colour/graphics choice. The entire thing boils down to (not) learning from mistakes and completely ignoring the potential customers opinions. As said before I honestly want Onza to be very successful but they continue to make bad decisions.

I'm hearing you and I am agreeing with all that you say.

[craigjames]

From what Joe Seddon was telling me today, the anodized the frames because it was cheaper to anodize a batch of frames as the equipment was set up, the original colour was supposed to be the Ti/pewter colour that Joe Seddon had on one of his proto frames, but the factory were unable to supply this colour and Onza Joe agreed to this alternative colour..... just what i was told today, so don't slate me!

Personally i think the frame in gold with black complimentary looks great! Black bikes are too common as are white and silver, green was done on the Limey 20 and this gold is just a bit different.... you cant please everyone and if you tried you'd only get slated for "copying" other manufacturers.

[Joe@Onza]

From what Joe Seddon was telling me today, the anodized the frames because it was cheaper to anodize a batch of frames as the equipment was set up, the original colour was supposed to be the Ti/pewter colour that Joe Seddon had on one of his proto frames, but the factory were unable to supply this colour and Onza Joe agreed to this alternative colour..... just what i was told today, so don't slate me!

Personally i think the frame in gold with black complimentary looks great! Black bikes are too common as are white and silver, green was done on the Limey 20 and this gold is just a bit different.... you cant please everyone and if you tried you'd only get slated for "copying" other manufacturers.

You are right Craig, Its not the colour I chose. But anodizing is more expensive, We saved money by not printing new graphics. Some people really like it. Some people don't. One thing is for sure not everyone would buy it so hopefully everyone that does like it, buys it. Also we are not exactly struggling to sell the 50 that have been made, Next batch can have the colour changed. Maybe monkey see monkey do would like the chance choose the colour? Baring in mind if the public didn't like his choice he would foot the bill for 50 frames sat there not selling. Thats not a dig its just I wish people would understand that you will never ever ever please everyone and you sure hell wont get everyone to ride the same bike. If I please 50 people across the world with this frame then I have done well. We can change the colour again and again.

One last thing, Hands up have seen it in the flesh? Anodized colours change in different light and Gold is not really its true colour, Maybe more bronze.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Joe@Onza

[alistair14]

i actually quite like it

i saw the prototype (?) one at the london cycle show this year...was so nice!

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Maybe monkey see monkey do would like the chance choose the colour? Baring in mind if the public didn't like his choice he would foot the bill for 50 frames sat there not selling.

Oh Joe, I couldn't possibly. I've already suggested possibilities, as have quite a few others. Jewish Racing Gold/Bronze wasn't on the list . It does surprise me that you only do batches of 50- is it not cheaper to go for something like 500 or so to ship world wide? Seems like a very small run but I guess if the price difference isn't much then fair do's.

On another note, look at Inspired (I'm not biased at all...). Dave had a really good product (which Onza helped to get to the final stage). However he was very careful about colour choices, starting simple with black and white, before doing some consumer research (asking riders) about what other colours people would like to see resulting in the baby blue, brown and british racing green. Now in his defense he also has a good eye for aesthetics to start with but everything he's done has been really well received. Also the graphics and Inspired logo's are very carefully considered and compliment the frame's lines and simplicity well and by supplying the stickers seperately allows the riders to do precissely what they want with their frame. It's this care and consideration which seems to be lacking with the Onza line.

Talking of Joe Seddon, rode with him yesterday and what he's done with his frame (raceline yellow highlighting the 'swoosh' of the downtube with raw) looks 100x better than the production version. It just seems like the colour and graphics are left purely to one person (Joe?) with no consultancy with anyone else.

[craigjames]

I'm just waiting for Joe to get his dual disc uber pimp spoked beauty should be amazing!

Oh and i don't think you'll have any issues selling them all that's for sure

Edited December 20, 2009 by craigjames

[Matt Vandart]

You are right Craig, Its not the colour I chose. But anodizing is more expensive, We saved money by not printing new graphics. Some people really like it. Some people don't. One thing is for sure not everyone would buy it so hopefully everyone that does like it, buys it. Also we are not exactly struggling to sell the 50 that have been made, Next batch can have the colour changed. Maybe monkey see monkey do would like the chance choose the colour? Baring in mind if the public didn't like his choice he would foot the bill for 50 frames sat there not selling. Thats not a dig its just I wish people would understand that you will never ever ever please everyone and you sure hell wont get everyone to ride the same bike. If I please 50 people across the world with this frame then I have done well. We can change the colour again and again.

One last thing, Hands up have seen it in the flesh? Anodized colours change in different light and Gold is not really its true colour, Maybe more bronze.

This is the downfall of the likes of Tarty bikes, you cannot see the product in the flesh until it is at your house. I will be seeing one in the flesh at some point and I can't wait to be honest.

Joe what do you think of the idea for self application graphics?

Edit: I have to say the more pictures I see of the frame built up the more I like it.

It is a great shame the "New products from Onza" thread was closed, maybe it would have been a good place to show case an example frame with this colour.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Matt Vandart

[Joe@Onza]

Oh Joe, I couldn't possibly. I've already suggested possibilities, as have quite a few others. Jewish Racing Gold/Bronze wasn't on the list . It does surprise me that you only do batches of 50- is it not cheaper to go for something like 500 or so to ship world wide? Seems like a very ssmall run but I guess if the price difference isn't much then fair do's.

Would you say the Ice was in the top 5 selling frames of 2009?

[Matt Vandart]

Dunno, you tell us.

At a guess yes

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

At a guess yes

But in quantities, what does the number one 20" trials frame sell? Are we talking 100, 500 worldwide?

[Joe@Onza]

Well I can assure you we did not make 500, Not even half that. I think we get lost in the world of trials and think its bigger then actually is.

[Matt Vandart]

Well I can assure you we did not make 500, Not even half that. I think we get lost in the world of trials and think its bigger then actually is.

I think some people definitely do!

Your margins must be well low.

How many 20" trials riders appx. are there in the world?

Edited December 20, 2009 by Matt Vandart

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Well I can assure you we did not make 500, Not even half that. I think we get lost in the world of trials and think its bigger then actually is.

Fair enough, and in that case it makes it even more important to make sure what you put out there will appeal to the largest proportion of riders so you can get the biggest slice of the available pie. Compared to the likes of Koxx you produce very good value, high performance frames but if you just spent a little more time considering the details (if you've read my editted post above about Inspired) I think you could do even better and push your frames even further up the 'top selling frames' lists.

That doesn't even necessarily just mean the frame colours either. The pictures at the start of this thread make the bike look cheap and tacky. Pretty much any rider can tell you that and it comes down to silly things like bar and stem choice. Those are the sorts of things that you shouldn't be exposing your products to. Put a nice build on it and this entire thread wouldn't have happened!

[Joe@Onza]

But in quantities, what does the number one 20" trials frame sell? Are we talking 100, 500 worldwide?

I would not know but at a guess the 4 play would be number one in trials and even with the vast success Inspired have had with it (Danny Macs vid etc) I think 500 would be a risk to make in one go.

[Matt Vandart]

You gonna answer any of my questions then Joe? Or shall I just f**k off?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

As an aside, as another quick example, take Univega:

Now that's their first trials frame (that I'm aware of) and comes from a company which tends to be pretty budget I think. Now that also looks a hell of a lot better than the build in the first post of this thread which says to me it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures. Colour scheme: pretty funky, works with the frame shape and without the name could've bee nmistaken for a Koxx, Atomz or similar top line jobby. Components: fairly generic but all look fairly good on the bike and the red rims set it off. Little touches...