Limey 320

[Joe@Onza]

Matt, 9762 20" riders.

Thats a nice bike, but we built that one as a sample with what we had at the factory. Judge us on next years 2010 range where we have spent the time and we specced everything in Taiwan.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Matt, 9762 20" riders.

Thats a nice bike, but we built that one as a sample with what we had at the factory. Judge us on next years 2010 range where we have spent the time and we specced everything in Taiwan.

Fair enough. In other news... 1) When are we going to see a production version of the 18" bike Seddon's currently ripping everything up on?! And when is he going to make a video of him doing just that? and 2) Joe mentioned a possible Zoot replacement... any more info?

[Joe@Onza]

2010 range will be out late March, It will include...

Rip Blue

Rip Red

Bird

Pro

Blade

Comp

Zoot 24" street

18" Master

Joe still needs to show me some action on it, Him and Craig Lee Scott are having the same problem, Dark nights and lack of people to video them. Craigs new frame arrived here last week by the way plus two new 26" proto's.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Joe still needs to show me some action on it

He's a complete beast on it and appears even smoother than on his 320 because of the dual discs!

[Kieran@ZSClothing]

2010 range will be out late March, It will include...

Rip Blue

Rip Red

Bird

Pro

Blade

Comp

Zoot 24" street

18" Master

Joe still needs to show me some action on it, Him and Craig Lee Scott are having the same problem, Dark nights and lack of people to video them. Craigs new frame arrived here last week by the way plus two new 26" proto's.

I will try organize a ride with joe soon and get some footage of him love riding with joe

[alistair14]

how come the pics ive seen, everyone uses duel disc?

alothough it has HS33 mounts as well

[Joe@Onza]

Nice one buddy.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

how come the pics ive seen, everyone uses duel disc?

alothough it has HS33 mounts as well

Because discs are full of win. Especially on 20".

[alistair14]

Because discs are full of win. Especially on 20".

they are? never tried to be honest, my mate said its horrible

[Kieran@ZSClothing]

full disc owns on mod.

[alistair14]

something now wants me to try duel disc

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

something now wants me to try duel disc

Because it's silent it makes everything seem silky smooth. Also makes lots of sense if you ride in comps are in the wet etc. It'll feel weird to start with but once you learn to trust it and get the brake set up right dual disc rocks.

[Matt Vandart]

Thank you-

I shall incorporate these numbers into my lottery ticket.

I hope you are joking by the way and have some idea of the figure otherwise how can you make any good decisions without only basing them on previous years sales? Not a very good way to grow your company or target market.

Whatever it is:-

What proportion (APPX) of this target market would you say buy a new frame each year?

50%

40%

20%

10%

5%

I think you have real chance with this frame to get a very large proportion of this, as everyone I have spoken to about it have been really positive about the frame. Especially with some of them being hardcore Monty/Deng riders which surely must have a BIG slice of the 20" market.

Amazingly they almost all changed their tune when they saw the colour, it really did put them off.

Although you cannot use TF as an advertising tool it is a very good market research tool and inadvertently a good marketing tool.

Look at the hype associated with rockman and these speedrace frames, a couple of well constructed posts by individuals involved with them and they take off with positive remarks and as a result probably some impressive sales, all from not actually seeing the products in the flesh.

This frame has alot of positives:-

Good geo

Good use of technology

Good looks (color aside for some people)

Good weight stats

Good pricing

Whatever anyone says about ONZA the manufacture and finishing of their frames is spot on in my opinion, I may not have much experience in trials but I do have alot of experience in manufacturing.

I don't think the Ice can be used as a good comparison as the colour scheme may not be to everyones taste but probably is not offensive to anyone.

I think that by taking on board some ideas for colour before the next run you could be looking at aiming higher than top 5 best selling frame for next year.

Deng may make boring colored frames but they sell well and not just because of the price.

Anyway I think it is all good and will be obtaining one for sure and posting it up on here once built up it will probably not be to many peoples taste.

[alistair14]

Because it's silent it makes everything seem silky smooth. Also makes lots of sense if you ride in comps are in the wet etc. It'll feel weird to start with but once you learn to trust it and get the brake set up right dual disc rocks.

i guess the best disc set up would be hope ?

im gunna get a new frame, and might consider disc now,

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

i guess the best disc set up would be hope ?

Yeah, that'd be my choice.

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

--------------All rockmans= Yuk asthetic concept but you don't see many people slagging them/constructively criticizing them why target ONZA?

I think a major influence in the concept of the colour scheme of this bike is titled "plagiarism"

From Rockman the idea to anodize it- Not a bad idea in principal but Gold is not a good colour to choose really, I will not mind betting the farm that most of these bikes that stay gold will end up looking almost identical because there are only so many schemes that will work without looking puke.

That is complete rubbish. Does anyone remember the 2004 T-Pro produced a long time before Rockman bought our Limey 1 from us, which set them on the road to source their own frames. Does anyone recall its champagne GOLD hard anodized finish. We have been anodizing frames on and off for almost all of our 10+ years history.

Anodizing is a very difficult process to achieve consistency. You don't mix a tin of anodize to get the colour. This frame looks pretty good in the flesh, but as Joe said it is not quite the colour we chose. Nevertheless it has gone down pretty well and we have virtually no stock left. Bear in mind that our anodizer lists just one green finish and in a period of a year we have had four various prototype items in green and they are all different in shade. We only had five forks made in the matching finish to the frame and even they are fractionally different to the frame as they were done at a different time.

We have looked at supplying separate sticker sets, but apart from the warranty implications of unbranded frames, all our decals are applied under the laquer and the quality of stickers applied post purchase is not of the level which we would be prepared to use as original equipment.

[Revolver]

Zoot 24" street

Aww...

No more proper trials 24"s then.

I'm also not the only one looking for a trials 24" bike, lol.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Revolver

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

We have looked at supplying separate sticker sets, but apart from the warranty implications of unbranded frames, all our decals are applied under the laquer and the quality of stickers applied post purchase is not of the level which we would be prepared to use as original equipment.

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

As an aside, as another quick example, take Univega:

Now that's their first trials frame (that I'm aware of) and comes from a company which tends to be pretty budget I think. Now that also looks a hell of a lot better than the build in the first post of this thread which says to me it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures. Colour scheme: pretty funky, works with the frame shape and without the name could've bee nmistaken for a Koxx, Atomz or similar top line jobby. Components: fairly generic but all look fairly good on the bike and the red rims set it off. Little touches...

Erm, except that that is a frame which we helped to develop several years ago and which we almost launched as the Dual until we rejected it after extensive testing, and which the maker has been hawking around ever since, trying to find a punter. Looks like hes found one.

Okay, so they've modified it to a 20" but its sure is the same frame.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Erm, except that that is a frame which we helped to develop several years ago and which we almost launched as the Dual until we rejected it after extensive testing, and which the maker has been hawking around ever since, trying to find a punter. Looks like hes found one.

Okay, so they've modified it to a 20" but its sure is the same frame.

Why do I get the feeling every single comment is falling on deaf ears? I don't give a shit about who came up with the concept of the design- you can keep preaching that about every frame out there 'til the cows come home.

The point is that wherever the frame design came from, Univega, with zero history in trials, has made the bike look (aesthetically- we're talking colours and graphics mainly) a heap load better than anything you've produced in the last 10 years!! The best looking frames you've done are the prototypes which you then ruin by painting/anodizing them in poor choices of colours and putting on crap graphics when it comes to the production versions. It's being said again and again on here and YOU STILL DON'T LISTEN!

The old T-Rex was a perfect example- I don't know of a single one who wasn't stripped and painted because of the crap black and chrome flame effect finish. Underneath was a nice frame which many people (myself included) loved but the rubbish aestheticss which would've been more at home on a bike aimed at a 5 year old did it no justice at all.

Edit: Can I also bring your attention to this:

That looks way better than the original paint finish. Joe@Onza take note.

That paint job makes the frame look so much better!

Once again 100x better than standard and even how it should've been released in the first place!

[Rob Brodie]

i guess the best disc set up would be hope ?

not worth getting any other brake.

they bite and never slip so how can you get better?

EDIT: that seemed a bit sarcastic (didnt mean it to be)

Edited December 21, 2009 by Rob Brodie

[josh barker]

something now wants me to try duel disc

yes they do have good bite and hold, but they make the back end feel heavy

[Mike Poyzer @ Onza]

I was just taking issue with your assertion that " it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures". You say that the parts are generic and I am saying that the frame is generic. I doubt that a rider came anywhere near it, if the frame has the same inbuilt disadvantages that we encountered.

We have just completed a build of the 320 and it looks stunning. The owner was over the moon with it. I was just looking at this thread with a BMX rider who commented that both your white with black bikes pictured look revolting. As we have said many times, you can ask a hundred people to select their favourite colours and graphics and you will get a hundred different answers. This is a very small market with small batches being made and we constantly experiment with colours and graphics and virtually every one who has seen this frame in the flesh, likes it.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

I was just taking issue with your assertion that " it was probably put together by a rider and a bit of consideration was put in before releasing it at a show and publishing pictures". You say that the parts are generic and I am saying that the frame is generic. I doubt that a rider came anywhere near it, if the frame has the same inbuilt disadvantages that we encountered.

We have just completed a build of the 320 and it looks stunning. The owner was over the moon with it. I was just looking at this thread with a BMX rider who commented that both your white with black bikes pictured look revolting. As we have said many times, you can ask a hundred people to select their favourite colours and graphics and you will get a hundred different answers. This is a very small market with small batches being made and we constantly experiment with colours and graphics and virtually every one who has seen this frame in the flesh, likes it.

The frame is generic? Again that has nothing to do with it. I'm talking purely aesthetics- colour and graphics. Both real weak points of Onza in my (and I'd guess quite a few others) opinions. That's a fact. And quoting a BMXer is completely pointless- have you seen some of the 'ghetto' piles of poo they ride? They actually deliberately make their bikes look crap for the sake of it. And also, there are massive differences between the sorts of people who ride, and the 'fashions' within trials and bmx. I'm sure if you showed him most of the current trials frames he'd tell you how shit they look but then show him an Inspired or that Czar 24" Ads has just built up and he might like it because it's closer to what BMXers relate to. Can you not concede that the likes of the T-Rex colour scheme could've been thought out a bit more carefully?!

You say you can ask 100 people what colour a product could be? Well Joe asked about that in the Onza thread then IGNORED everyone who replied. This is like talking to a brick wall.

[Joe@Onza]

The frame is generic? Again that has nothing to do with it. I'm talking purely aesthetics- colour and graphics. Both real weak points of Onza in my (and I'd guess quite a few others) opinions. That's a fact. And quoting a BMXer is completely pointless- have you seen some of the 'ghetto' piles of poo they ride? They actually deliberately make their bikes look crap for the sake of it. And also, there are massive differences between the sorts of people who ride, and the 'fashions' within trials and bmx. I'm sure if you showed him most of the current trials frames he'd tell you how shit they look but then show him an Inspired or that Czar 24" Ads has just built up and he might like it because it's closer to what BMXers relate to. Can you not concede that the likes of the T-Rex colour scheme could've been thought out a bit more carefully?!

You say you can ask 100 people what colour a product could be? Well Joe asked about that in the Onza thread then IGNORED everyone who replied. This is like talking to a brick wall.

Right I'm getting bored of saying this now, I've said it was not the colour I chose, I do listen to everyone. Saying I and Onza Ignore everyone is a little rude and just plain offensive. I could name several occasions where I have listened to TF but how can I get the colour right when the ideas are so varied? I mean, Everyone asks for a disc tab, So we fit one. Everyone says its too heavy, I lighten it.

Please explain why some people like the colour?( let me guess they have no taste like me) Shall I send all of the frames back? WHAT DO YOU WANT? WHAT DO I DO TO PLEASE YOU?