Greetings Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 You do get quite a lot of frame for your moneyNo you don't. The sooner people understand that an aluminium frame costing more than 300 quid is a blatant rip off, the better. It's just a piece of aluminium which is both cheap and easy to manufacture. Same goes to Rockman, Ozonys, Atomz, Koxx or Monty. You can get a titanium frame for the price of any of those which will not only outlast it by 5 years or more, but will be much more fun to ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Sweet double 'bold claim' to finish there, like it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.KYDD Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I saw one of these at Koxx days and literally* went light headed and weak at the knees!In the flesh, as a full build they are just gorgeous*sp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISO2 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I think this is a dead loss and not going to sell well at all. Has Tarty sold one at all, i've seen nothing of one being built up so i will say no. The guy behind Echo and all the other copies had the right idea with the price when he droed them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 The guy behind Echo and all the other copies had the right idea with the price when he droed them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISO2 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 What, they went to about half price and everyone was on them. Trials really took off and people got good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I had no idea what you were talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borat Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Back to NMC!!! I joke, I joke. Would it be wrong to say, I quite like it?Shame I ride mod and absoloutly f**king skint. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben John-Hynes Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 What, they went to about half price and everyone was on them. Trials really took off and people got good!Hahahahahahaha, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burrows Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 No you don't. The sooner people understand that an aluminium frame costing more than 300 quid is a blatant rip off, the better. It's just a piece of aluminium which is both cheap and easy to manufacture. Same goes to Rockman, Ozonys, Atomz, Koxx or Monty. You can get a titanium frame for the price of any of those which will not only outlast it by 5 years or more, but will be much more fun to ride.That's retarded . Frame material accounts for only a fraction of the overall cost and performance of a frame. If all your doing is guessing at geometry, welding random tubes and then field testing with consumers then your statement may hold some truth. This is pretty much what Deng has done with his business. He started by making terrible frames but quickly adapted them to meet the needs and demands of riders. He does make original components and have his own ideas now, but these are still largely market tested. His original frames were blatent rip-offs of other manufacturers sucessfull designers.Compare that to the latest Koxx Sky 26". We first heard of these bikes at Koxx days 2008, and saw them being ridden and tested by the worlds best riders in 2009. Only now are they available to buy. Two completely different approaches to frame design and manufacture. If you're not prepared to pay more than £300 for a frame then fair enough, but to say anything more is a rip-off is just wrong.On the subject of this frame, I think its great. As a hard rider I'm glad to see a frame with a bit of meat and proper geometry. Choice is good, don't knock it until you've tried it people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben John-Hynes Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 since when is 2 Kgs heavy? You people are ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISO2 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 since when is 2 Kgs heavy? You people are ridiculous.When everyone became weak and febal, oh wait that was Ashton and a company that failed! Different topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Shut up, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borat Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 When everyone became weak and febal, oh wait that was Ashton and a company that failed! Different topic!Shut the f**k up, ashtons are heavy?I dislike you. Alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 That's retarded . Frame material accounts for only a fraction of the overall cost and performance of a frame. If all your doing is guessing at geometry, welding random tubes and then field testing with consumers then your statement may hold some truth.Well yes, the Deng approach is much cheaper. However, prototyping and testing isn't that expensive when you look at the overall costs of ordering say 200-300 frames of one kind. Look at other bike sports - why can you get a downhill frame which is way more complex for the same price, or an advanced suspension fork? Or even a carbon fibre XC frame?The truth is that trials is a niche and that creates high prices - both at the manufacturers and at the retailers end. Mass produced parts like Truvativ will always be cheaper, even if they're better than trials components. In view of this, the price of premium parts will never reflect their real value. That was my initial complaint that with such frames you will never get "a lot of frame for your money". If anything, you'll get something unique and that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic84echo Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 since when is 2 Kgs heavy? You people are ridiculous.Here here. My old Levelboss stock was heavier than that, and it was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Here here. My old Levelboss stock was heavier than that, and it was awesome.It is heavy when its that expensive....lets be honest, that frame is going to be bought by people that care about weight isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigjames Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Why would you spend that much money on a 2kg TMS when you can spend half that on a Deng frame with the same/similar geo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpson Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Shut up, Pete.Pete Wright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well yes, the Deng approach is much cheaper. However, prototyping and testing isn't that expensive when you look at the overall costs of ordering say 200-300 frames of one kind.Haha, what?Look at other bike sports - why can you get a downhill frame which is way more complex for the same price, or an advanced suspension fork? Or even a carbon fibre XC frame?OK, let's look at a modern example, the Black Sky. A shit-load of work has gone into that frame, and it's the most advanced trials frame available. Compare that to the most advanced DH frame you can get, or even the most advanced carbon fibre XC frame. Subtle price difference there, wouldn't you agree?The truth is that trials is a niche and that creates high prices - both at the manufacturers and at the retailers end. Mass produced parts like Truvativ will always be cheaper, even if they're better than trials components. In view of this, the price of premium parts will never reflect their real value. That was my initial complaint that with such frames you will never get "a lot of frame for your money". If anything, you'll get something unique and that's all.Truvativ would be cheaper, but nothing they really do is 'better than trials components' for use in trials. Same as most other 'big' companies, trials IS so niche that they can't compete (or won't compete 'cos there's no monetary value in it), so that's naturally going to drive prices up because prototyping, contrary to your earlier post, isn't cheap at all. Your minimum quanitities for a production frame are also a fair way off. My comment about getting a lot of shit for your money is in comparison to other trials parts, where there's more work going on on the TMS than a lot of other frames out. Yes, that'll be the 'unique' you're talking about, but it's also arguably a better frame in precisely the same way you could spend £80 and get a cheap shitter full sus bike from Asda or you could spend several thousand pounds and bite Steve Peat's setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Pete Wright?One and the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasil Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 My mate is in their team. Since he got the frame his riding performance evolved a lot. I rode a bit too. It feels great even if I am not fan of high bb. The dropout system is amazing. After the thoughts of my friend the headtube angle is just perfect. He is using it with a 35 mm offset TMS fork (I guess).If you have the money go for it.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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