Anyone Else Finding It Hard To Get A Foot In The Careers Ladder?

[N.Wood]

I've been searching for another job for the past 6 months, nothing seems to come up. However just this week two jobs have appeared to I'm busy typing everything out to perfection as I seriously want this job and its more local than my current employer.

University doesn't promise a job - depending on the course you do of course. The only time I've seen university students actually 'do well' with their education is by going into the NHS (doctors, nurses, specialists) which is suprising as it was my understanding that NHS was difficult to get to after uni...basically that your qualification lays idle.

Think about it hard, is the course worth the stress of moving/debt and all that. Sure you get the piss ups and stuff, but if like me, I've got all the out of my system now and I actually want to put my life to more of a good use.

Sure, you can go to uni and it can get you places you otherwise wouldn't get without it - some of the big companies only set on graduates...but most also set on with experience. It's just luck I guess.

You seem to have a thing about uni students don't you

I've got a job doing something I would and could only do with my relevant degree as its fairly specialist. Some degrees are very wide ranging, art for example unless you wanna be an artist... But with that degree theres a whole load of jobs that you wouldn't say was directly linked but the education gained on the course is invaluable.

Anyways...

Job hunting wise, try and find a couple of job areas you might be interested in. Whack them into Yell.com and email your CV to all the local companies.

Its like women, how many girls do you try it on with, and how many girls beome your gf? You gotta apply for as many as you can get yours hands on. Its best to go for unadvertised jobs as it shows initiative and they don't have to pay the agency fees.

[Krisboats]

I'm phoning around everywhere, emailing, going into places... I'm not just applying for places that have advertised vacancies. I'm also handing in CV's at places that have no jobs going, but just incase something pops up...

Post up a copy of your CV then, i guarantee that's your biggest downfall.

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Post up a copy of your CV then, i guarantee that's your biggest downfall.

Don't have it on this laptop, will do when I get back round Dannys.

[weirdoku]

I never managed to get a job with my CV in retail stores either. I've only had 2 jobs, one I don't even remember applying for, my details must have been passed on soemhow but heck I took it anyway cos I needed the money. I had another job at the same time as well, but I only phoned up when I saw it on a job website and asked if it was still available and got a call back a few days later with an interview. Guess I got lucky

But now I need a job again, and my CV looks shit as ever still. Doubt I'll get a job

[F-Stop Junkie]

I don't think IBM have that much job security at the moment (look up Project LEAN, or read about it From this link...)

IBM are really marching to the same beat they did in the 70s, it's all big iron. I do an increasing amount of work now with i-Series and z-Series, and think IBM are really taking their eye off a lot of smaller products they could do well in. I've seen a couple recently that are shocking, half developed, half full APIs and so on... Don't forget they've sold off their desktop/laptop arm to Lenovo, so there's no IBM work there now.

Also a lot of big customers buy safe, or they buy to whoever gives them the biggest discounts. They still run apps from the 70s. After all, no-one got fired for buying IBM...

PwC do several different things, as do similar big firms. I can't remember who did the tax credits system... CA? Anyway, if PwC are brought in to do project management and development, you'd see a different side from their audit teams.

Going down the SME route can be interesting as you have to be a master of everything, but you don't have to build systems that scale or are massively redundant. What you'll find in a large enterprise is that the networks side is massively segregated, to the point of having a team responsible for the design, implementation and maintenance of the network, but then a separate team of blokes who actually go and screw kit in and run cables.

[Matt Vandart]

I can get job interviews, but as soon as it comes to the question: What has been the hardest thing youve overcome, im sitting there thinking like wtf, ohh 8 pallets, tap then bash. but thats obviously not what there looking for.

Wrong answer, when they ask you this question they are actually looking for any answer detailing how you overcome any obstacle.

Giving them a more refined answer to this question along the lines of your thought above would actually impress any employer with proper brains.

Employers like to know that you have a life outside of work also, and that you are a well rounded employee, not just a machine, although many will treat you like one once you have become an employee.

For example:-

"What is the hardest thing you have overcome?"

"Well I am actively involved in a sport called bicycle trials, have you heard of it?"

"No, tell me about it."

"Basically it's a sport where you ride a push bike over obstacles and try not to put your feet down.

It is alot harder that what it sounds.

You work your way through a section of obstacles, analyzing the best route to take to clear all the obstacles both before you start and as you go along, hopefully clearing the whole section without touching down with you feet.

I started about a year ago, and in the beginning it was really difficult, you would be amazed at how hard it is just to balance your bike in one spot without putting your feet down.

Anyway, when I first started, I practiced and practiced and thought I was never going to get anywhere with it but decided I was determined to learn how to do it.

So I watched videos on the internet of people doing it,which really inspired me to get good and go bigger, joined in rides with other more experienced riders and learned from them, went to a few comps and really stuck at it.

After a few frustrating months of practicing, I began to really get the hang of the basics and once they were in place my riding really took off.

Just the other day I finally managed to get up a stack of 8 packing pallets which is about so high (indicated with your hand) using a combination of the basic techniques I had learned, which was something I had wanted to do for a very long time and was a real achievement for me personally.

Now I help teach the younger kids that have started trials riders after seeing me riding around the town.

It is a very demanding sport physically and keeps you very fit.

In this answer you are telling the interviewer:-

A: You have a life outside of work

B: You can think logically and analytically about a problem and create a workable solution to the problem

C: You are a determined person that will stick with something until you get a satisfactory result

D: You are a team player and are willing to learn from more experienced members of the team

E: You can be inspired to work harder to achieve more

F: You set yourself goals or can be set goals by other people and carry out the necessary tasks in order to achieve them

G: You are willing to help out less experienced team members with your gained knowledge.

H: You are not a bone idle twat that sits on the sofa all day and is likely to spend the whole day in work trying to avoid doing anything.

[anzo]

...

Thanks, pretty interesting read and something I was unaware of until now. Although this article is dated 2007; so IBM are mostly outsourced now?

You seem to have a thing about uni students don't you

Hmmm, yes and no. I just don't see many people doing a university course that seems worth the debt, effort and time. Engineering, Law, Medical sure...but 'Religious Studies'?

[Papa Manual]

My experience with PwC was generally bad. I've worked with auditors from Guernsey, London and Zurich and they all seem to have the same lackluster attitude. A friend of a friend used to be an audit manager with them in Guernsey and as a qualified accountant with a number of years audit and fund management experience behind him, he was only earning slightly more than me (I was totally unqualified, just with the right company...). The working conditions are generally accepted to be poor due to the hours and competitive nature of the job, not to mention the boredom.

We also had their tax advisory people in at one of the first places I worked to assist the in-house lawyers and accountants with a reasonably complicated tax structure composed of a series of blocker corporations. They made no changes to the structure itself, merely the aesthetics of it, such as a few names of the corporations and then even colours on the presentation to be presented to our client. That cost thousands with no actual real input. They didn't even really comment on the structure itself.

KPMG on the other hand; brilliant. There's still the boredom, especially in the lower echelons, but pay is far more performance based and your career track is based far more on your performance and qualifications rather than how long you've been there and how much corporate dick you can suck.

Hmmm, yes and no. I just don't see many people doing a university course that seems worth the debt, effort and time. Engineering, Law, Medical sure...but 'Religious Studies'?

I get your point, however I suppose it's all relative. If, for example, you wanted to teach RS or philosophy or something like that, then you'd need the degree. Also, whereas you and I perhaps wouldn't place that much importance on such degrees in context with the working world and career progression, some people may be able to justify it to themselves purely due to the interest they have in a given subject. I'd love to study RS to be honest...

[OD404]

I suppose it depends on why you go to uni really. I went because it was a means to an end, my chosen career in this case, and for a lot of people that will be the same. I do get the feeling that in many cases people go to uni because it is an accepted convention; "you want a good job, you go to uni" etc and that just isn't the case. Where I work (in an engineering design office) there are loads of people here who are more knowledgable than me who never went to uni.

As someone said, when you go to uni you want to make sure the debt you get in is worth the benefits the degree gives you. I don't think this is the case in many instances.

The biggest benefit of uni for me so far has been its dedicated careers service, as this has prepared me for writing cv's (I've never been rejected on the basis of my cv since) as well as interview and assessment centre preparation. I do know Loughboroughs careers service website is openly accessible from the net and has a lot of good information about cv's and interviews so for those who want some advice it would be a great place to start

[Si-man]

One thing my new employer went on about was things I do out of work. Explained about building PC's from scratch, fixing up motorbikes, DIY etc and he was well interested. Was also chuffed with me doing after hours college courses off my own back to gather more experience. One thing he was very please with was the fact that I wasn't nervous, got all my points across and that I wasn't affraid of talking (sounds daft, but most people choke up). Get yourself a decent CV (I went on a course with the Job Centre to learn how to do a good one). Finally, if your going to go asking for jobs, dress smart even when just asking for one. I nearly didn't get this one because I had all my motorbike gear on and jeans and a t shirt, but got a 2nd interview because he liked me.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

If, for example, you wanted to teach RS or philosophy or something like that, then you'd need the degree. Also, whereas you and I perhaps wouldn't place that much importance on such degrees in context with the working world and career progression, some people may be able to justify it to themselves purely due to the interest they have in a given subject.

Those people are few and far between though. My GF did geography at uni (cue all the 'colouring pencils' jokes ) with the sole aim of becoming a geography teacher. She was subsequently head hunted for a position and is a brilliant teacher who has shot up the promotions ladder far faster than anyone would've thought. However, in her year at uni there were another 70 odd people who had only a mild interest in geography and had no intention whatsoever of ever using the gained knowledge in the future. To me that's a complete waste of 3 years just to prove that they can cram enough information into their heads to pass a few exams. It's just one of those annoying 'generic' subjects that hundreds of people do just so they can get a degree.

Having said that, I worked alongside a guy in a high profile motorsport design office who had done a general design course at college and kind of fallen into the role. He worked his butt off and is now an aerodynamicist at Red Bull F1, managing a load of people who probably all have either degrees or doctorates in aerospace engineering or motorsport aerodynamics. Just goes to show what can happen if you put your mind to it I guess!

[OD404]

To me that's a complete waste of 3 years just to prove that they can cram enough information into their heads to pass a few exams. It's just one of those annoying 'generic' subjects that hundreds of people do just so they can get a degree.

Pretty much my view...

[anzo]

I get your point, however I suppose it's all relative. If, for example, you wanted to teach RS or philosophy or something like that, then you'd need the degree. Also, whereas you and I perhaps wouldn't place that much importance on such degrees in context with the working world and career progression, some people may be able to justify it to themselves purely due to the interest they have in a given subject. I'd love to study RS to be honest...

Yeah I guess so, the RS reference was based upon a friend of mine...yet she has no real interest of doing anything with the subject after university, supposed sounds more like she went to uni for something to do.

Degrees certainly do look good in a CV there's no doubt about that, but I guess its the trouble graduates experience every year - getting a job! They have the qualification but no 'work experience' as such; yet most of the older folks have little qualifications but they know the job because it's been their life.

I think primetime for employment is in the 30s, you have experience and perhaps a qualification and you're not due to retire anytime soon. I know age discrimination shouldn't occur, but it's very much alive. I did a health and safety qualification a few years ago and that was may career path for a bit, but the responsibilty of the job is massive...it can place the company in some pretty f**king hot water if something went wrong and companies would rather not have a 18 (at the time) year old doing all that.

I suppose it depends on why you go to uni really. I went because it was a means to an end, my chosen career in this case, and for a lot of people that will be the same. I do get the feeling that in many cases people go to uni because it is an accepted convention; "you want a good job, you go to uni" etc and that just isn't the case. Where I work (in an engineering design office) there are loads of people here who are more knowledgable than me who never went to uni.

As someone said, when you go to uni you want to make sure the debt you get in is worth the benefits the degree gives you. I don't think this is the case in many instances.

The biggest benefit of uni for me so far has been its dedicated careers service, as this has prepared me for writing cv's (I've never been rejected on the basis of my cv since) as well as interview and assessment centre preparation. I do know Loughboroughs careers service website is openly accessible from the net and has a lot of good information about cv's and interviews so for those who want some advice it would be a great place to start

thanks for the info. I'm in the process of emailing, telephoning and writing to many companies in Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire for vacancies. I've done all this before and never got a reply but I seem to get plenty now;

1. I updated my CV - it's a brief description of yourself and your abilities, not your life story.

2. Cover letters are important, don't just go 'here' and pass the CV.

3. Be confident, a little ego can help...'I think I would be good for this job'.....'I would be good for this job'....

Whoever said calling companies from yell.com had it spot on - Don't wait for the companies to contact you, contact them.

Out of interest, does anyone have their CV available online and have they ever had any feedback from doing it?

[OD404]

I used to have my cv online with a number of engineering recruitement companies, I got a fair few offers for interviews, mostly from companys I'd never heard of. They were free so I would say it was a good thing. They do hassle me every month to check I still have a job

On the graduate side of things, you'll be interested to know that company policy here is to only recruite graduates for professional positions, that way you keep an upward flow of skills through the company. For instance we need another FEA analyst, so the route is to promote me and another analyst to create a "gap" at the bottom for a graduate to fill.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Another thing which I think is very important is taking the time to 'target' your CV and covering letter for the specific job. I think the people who look at CV's all day long will be able to tell a mile off if it's just a standard one which someone's sent out to 20 companies in exactly the same format.

When I applied for my current job I looked closely at the 'person specification' and 'job description' and made sure that I covered each of the main points carefully (without lying obviously) to make it clear that I really was the perfect man for the job. A little extra effort could make the difference between getting an interview and not.

[F-Stop Junkie]

An ex-colleague of mine did Geography at Uni, and is now a hot-shot pre-sales engineer for a multinational IT firm...

One thing I would be wary of, a friend of mine went for the University of Life approach, and it served them well, but they've now hit a point where more senior jobs require or expect a degree. They're now working during the day, and doing a remote learning course by night for the next couple of years to earn that degree....

Anzo, if you want to know any more about corporate IT, PM me...

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

An ex-colleague of mine did Geography at Uni, and is now a hot-shot pre-sales engineer for a multinational IT firm...

I bet he doesn't scream that from the roof of his building though...

[downhill_rob2@hotmail.com]

I don't know what all the fuss is about, I got the first job I applied for and is exactly what I want to do. Go figure .Sorry, I'm a b*****d, I know!

But thats because you applied to do aero-dynamics for M-SPORT dave...

[Matt Vandart]

An ex-colleague of mine did Geography at Uni, and is now a hot-shot pre-sales engineer for a multinational IT firm...

One thing I would be wary of, a friend of mine went for the University of Life approach, and it served them well, but they've now hit a point where more senior jobs require or expect a degree. They're now working during the day, and doing a remote learning course by night for the next couple of years to earn that degree....

Anzo, if you want to know any more about corporate IT, PM me...

Indeed

[rocktrials]

I was pretty lucky, came back from Oz last year in August and picked up a local warehouse job. After Christmas, it was 3 day working weeks, and then by April, no job....

Jobless for over 2 months, and then an awesome opportunity came along, and now i'm living on my own in another country. Hated being jobless, and I have friends with no jobs/careers and I do feel sorry for them cos there is nothing out there.

[Fishy]

Got an interview for a company which does outdoor pursuits, the job I've applied for is an apprentice instructor, which sounds absolutely mint!

[anzo]

Got an interview for a company which does outdoor pursuits, the job I've applied for is an apprentice instructor, which sounds absolutely mint!

Good luck with that, sounds like you could be on to a very interesting job there!

I have a meeting today at 10am to discuss my current employment; unfortunately it looks like I could be forced to take a redunancy package. I knew this was in the pipeline as we're outsourcing all our IT systems to Germany.

Over the past week I've applied to 5 vacanies for IT support including one for...*sigh*...PC World - but this will be temporary. On top of this I have called/e-mailed/written to over 50 companies in the east midlands - none of which seemed very promising if I'm honest. I've been to the local library for books to brush up on SQL server, Server 2008 and IP/TCP as these seem to be were the jobs are at.

IT vacanies at the minute are very much aimed at managers/programmers; which kinda sucks.

So tomorrow I'll be putting on the suit and spending my Friday and Saturday visiting various sites and handing out CVs.

Urghhh, f**king work.

Edited November 20, 2009 by anzo

[Token]

Fair play for trying mate!

Fish get on le fass chat. I'm erect.

[bollo you ball-bag]

Good luck with that, sounds like you could be on to a very interesting job there!

Over the past week I've applied to 5 vacanies for IT support including one for...*sigh*...PC World - but this will be temporary. On top of this I have called/e-mailed/written to over 50 companies in the east midlands - none of which seemed very promising if I'm honest. I've been to the local library for books to brush up on SQL server, Server 2008 and IP/TCP as these seem to be were the jobs are at.

IT vacanies at the minute are very much aimed at managers/programmers; which kinda sucks.

So tomorrow I'll be putting on the suit and spending my Friday and Saturday visiting various sites and handing out CVs.

Urghhh, f**king work.

at least you're taking a pro active view to finding work as oppsed to the dossers on every benefit going who just expect to be handed a job without putting any effort in at all.

GOOD LUCK

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

Seriously considering emigration.