Street Trial, 26 Or 24?

[snoolax]

the thought of a pair of marino street machines. A 26 with zebedi geo and a 24 with ashton ET geo! I hear what your sayin dude they wpuld feel sooo different but i think it could be interesting!

well if u got the money u can always get both and then see which one u end up riding more =)

anyway back to the 24 and 26 discussion, what are the pros of 24 other thats its more flickabe? making stuff like flat land tail whips much easier. its just almost impossible on a 26.

Are moves easily to pick up on a 24 too?

[Scott Gibbs]

yeah sorry to go off topic. I guess a similar thing to mod / stock, smaller wheels would give more clearance. But i think 24s are purely designed for street riding and the "streety" 26 are just short wheelbase frames.

[LEON]

If you wanna ride proper street with no regards to hopping about on the back wheel, 50" sidehops etc then get a short 26" a zebdi,curtis,pace,zero,leeson 26" are all shorter frames than a fourplay with better "bmx'y" feel, the current 24"s are a compromise of both proper street & hoppy crap, so when something's ok at both things, it's not great at either and in my experience the 26" all felt better for how I ride, I can't get on with 24" wheels, never owned one but....I've had a few goes on 2 different inspired's and I thought they were both horrible.

A short 26" wont sidehop/ static gap etc so well due to the lack of cockpit space, but a fourplay will not bunnyhop/spin like any of the frames I've listed, Ignore what danny mac's doing because he's just on another level, he could do everything he does on a 26".

Just try both and see what works for you. Just don't get sucked into the hype and then realise you don't like it.

Edited November 16, 2009 by LEON

[*Koxx hydroxx 2 Jack *]

You can run a vee up front with a 24 look at skozes bike / one of his tipics shwoing you a picture of his old bike..

Buy my bike its streety trials - can take 24" and 26" disc mount Leeson - OFFER ME..

also he sent hes forks to paul oliver to moove the v mounts down to fit as far as i know

[Scott Gibbs]

problem is leon most of those frames dont exist anymore, and those who have them arent selling so its a catch 22 situation mate. i would give anything for a zebedi frame.

[CurtisRider]

also he sent hes forks to paul oliver to moove the v mounts down to fit as far as i know

Yeah i lowered them for him, Pashleys dont come like that as standard. As far as i know of, im the only person that does it now (within the trials community) as Clive Leeson has stopped

[LEON]

problem is leon most of those frames dont exist anymore, and those who have them arent selling so its a catch 22 situation mate. i would give anything for a zebedi frame.

They're not being made but they're still around but you gotta look outside just this forum, i paid £60 this year for an unmarked zebdi, £25 for a mint giant, I see zero's go all the time on ebay, pace leeson and curtis are harder to find.

If i can get a curtis I'd sell one of my zebdis

Leon

[snoolax]

hmmm or get a marino?

summarise a bit of what leon mention, so generally,

short bike = better street (bunny hop, manuals)

longer bike = better pure trials (rear wheel moves, side hop)

is the inspired considered long?

what bout tailwhips? its something i have been trying to nail

btw anyone coming to defend for the 24s? =p

Edited November 16, 2009 by snoolax

[LEON]

Inspired is 1040, it's still considered short by todays standards, but it's longer than the old school stock frames which were 1015-1025 ish, also it's a noticably more upright head angle, which can make more difference than wheelbase, meaning a longer reach, better for static stuff, worse for bunnyhops & spins.

It's basically a happy medium between tgs and street.

Never done a tailwhip but I can't see why it'd make any difference, danny mac did them no problem on the old echo? he used to ride which must have been at least 1060wb and had 26" wheels.

I don't see the point of having smaller wheels if the bike is longer, the 24uk seems more my thing.

Plus every 24" needs 3 feet of stem stackers which looks shit, not to mention every set of forks you use need 200mm ish steerers which is pretty rare in used forks anyway.

[snoolax]

right, i see why danny mac mostly does his bunny hops in a side way fashion. its more like a rolling sidehop than a straight bunny hop.

guess its mean to satisfy those who wish to do TGS and Street. of course cant push the limits to each but well, its suppose to be a FUN bike. Throw in BMX stuff, yes. Street, no prob. trials? sure.

a jack of all trades peharps?

still waiting for 24 riders to speak up =)

P.S still curious how tall is danny mac. I always think i am too tall if i ride a 24 =x I am 6'1

Edited November 17, 2009 by snoolax

[Jason222]

just curious how much does a marino generally weigth for stock?

I had a 24" marino frame with drilled headtube, bb, seat tube, etc. No extra gussets. Was made to be as light as possible. I was told it would be around 2.3-4 kg...but when I got it, the damn thing weighed 2.75 kg! Pretty lame!

I couldn't get used to my 24, it honestly felt awful to me. I had 24uk geometry, which has shorter WB than the inspired, but the reach is actually the same (or longer?). Felt super sluggish, not at all what I expected. Like said before, you have to run a lot of spacers below your stem to have it setup right. I also had a marino fork custom made with my frame, and the steerer was pre-cut by him for the frame, so I couldn't get enough bloody spacers underneath my stem. Although I probably would have needed 6 half inch spacers for it to feel ride-able. That said, the fork was 1.45 kg with the cut steerer. Marino stuff is shit for trials. The whole bike still ended up being fairly light, around 24.5 lbs, because I used a lot of light parts.

I don't see the point in a street trials bike if its still going to be hard to bunnyhop. I lent my 24" to a buddy for a group ride, and he tried to bunnyhop a relatively low wall (which he'd done easily on his bmx and mtb) and ended up just barely getting the front wheel off the ground, front wheel casing the wall, flying over the bike, and dragging his face across the top of the wall for several feet.

I've owned 9 trials setups, tried many other bikes, and my 24" was the worst yet! I can honestly say there was nothing I liked about my 24 experience!

[LEON]

Danny mac aint tall. Honestly though, don't pay any attention to danny mac and what he can do, he's pretty much the worlds best street rider and none of us will reach his level. What works for him may be a nightmare for you.

To me the whole point of a short bike is that it bunnyhops, 1 of the inspireds i tried was set up identical bar/stem/front end to what all my 26" bikes are, and it didnt wanna bunny hop at all...it was better on the back wheel.....so there's the trade off.

Just dont fool yourself and think you'll be doing 4ft bunnyhops

[Luke Rainbird]

Inspired is 1040, it's still considered short by todays standards, but it's longer than the old school stock frames which were 1015-1025 ish, also it's a noticably more upright head angle, which can make more difference than wheelbase, meaning a longer reach, better for static stuff, worse for bunnyhops & spins.

It's basically a happy medium between tgs and street.

Never done a tailwhip but I can't see why it'd make any difference, danny mac did them no problem on the old echo? he used to ride which must have been at least 1060wb and had 26" wheels.

I don't see the point of having smaller wheels if the bike is longer, the 24uk seems more my thing.

Plus every 24" needs 3 feet of stem stackers which looks shit, not to mention every set of forks you use need 200mm ish steerers which is pretty rare in used forks anyway.

The wheelbase, in the grand scheme of things, makes hardly any difference to a bike. The reach and head angle, however do. (I wouldn't really consider the Inspired a "short" bike myself, though it certainly isn't loooong)

The Inspired has a 73* head angle, which is in the same region as that of the Zebdi, Zero etc. Steeper = streetier, in basic terms - Look to BMX and you'll see 75* HAs all over the place. Makes the steering quicker which has it's pros and cons like every other aspect of a frame.

The Inspired is a jack of all trades - I'm finding it ridiculously fun to get out on, plus extremely comfortable for the riding I do. 24" wheels are much more playful, comparing them to an old school 26" isn't really fair as they're pretty different, it's like comparing a Monty 20" to a Control.

I have a 175mm steerer, run a single spacer and that's it. Job done, just where I want it. No massive stacks, no ultralong steerers, simple.

its suppose to be a FUN bike. Throw in BMX stuff, yes. Street, no prob. trials? sure.

still waiting for 24 riders to speak up =)

Danny mac aint tall. Honestly though, don't pay any attention to danny mac and what he can do, he's pretty much the worlds best street rider and none of us will reach his level. What works for him may be a nightmare for you.

To me the whole point of a short bike is that it bunnyhops, 1 of the inspireds i tried was set up identical bar/stem/front end to what all my 26" bikes are, and it didnt wanna bunny hop at all...it was better on the back wheel.....so there's the trade off.

Just dont fool yourself and think you'll be doing 4ft bunnyhops

You've said it yourself - just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's not right for other people. I've always felt more comfortable playing on 24" wheels than on a short 26". Does this mean that smaller wheels are difinitively better than 26s? No (well...)

Also, you'll probably want a different bar/stem setup on a 24" to your 26" to make them comparably the same. Goes back to the different reach, body position etc.

With the right setup, anyone can ride any bike. Some people prefer it one way whilst others might not. At the end of the day, I know I could name at least a dozen riders who get on more than happily with 24s than they do on bigger wheels so there must be something in it after all...

[snoolax]

Great comments guys! Keep it coming =) this thread gonna be real useful for future riders who are considering between the 24" and 26"

I think the 26" kinda lack of a good representative to compare with the 24", which have widely ridden inspired and 24uk. Most 26" street trials are either customize or they are really old school frames which are more trials than street.

One concern i guess will be the inspired or other 24" be suitable for tall riders? or is it dependent on the top tube lenght + stem combo 's reach? well i stand at 6foot and my friend is at 6foot2. We are not big build but we dont wan to look oversized on a street bike.

anyway luke love your gallery of 24"

[snoolax]

I had a 24" marino frame with drilled headtube, bb, seat tube, etc. No extra gussets. Was made to be as light as possible. I was told it would be around 2.3-4 kg...but when I got it, the damn thing weighed 2.75 kg! Pretty lame!

I couldn't get used to my 24, it honestly felt awful to me. I had 24uk geometry, which has shorter WB than the inspired, but the reach is actually the same (or longer?). Felt super sluggish, not at all what I expected. Like said before, you have to run a lot of spacers below your stem to have it setup right. I also had a marino fork custom made with my frame, and the steerer was pre-cut by him for the frame, so I couldn't get enough bloody spacers underneath my stem. Although I probably would have needed 6 half inch spacers for it to feel ride-able. That said, the fork was 1.45 kg with the cut steerer. Marino stuff is shit for trials. The whole bike still ended up being fairly light, around 24.5 lbs, because I used a lot of light parts.

I don't see the point in a street trials bike if its still going to be hard to bunnyhop. I lent my 24" to a buddy for a group ride, and he tried to bunnyhop a relatively low wall (which he'd done easily on his bmx and mtb) and ended up just barely getting the front wheel off the ground, front wheel casing the wall, flying over the bike, and dragging his face across the top of the wall for several feet.

I've owned 9 trials setups, tried many other bikes, and my 24" was the worst yet! I can honestly say there was nothing I liked about my 24 experience!

just the frame at 2.75 is pretty heavy!

did u manage to find out what was the main reason for the bike sluggist behaviour? was it the geometry or the weight?

it might be the CG of the bike too forward as u mentioned that the fork itself is 1.45kg..

[Ross McArthur]

All my bikes felt sluggish...Till I pumped up my tyres and maned the f**k up!

You dont have to run loads of stackers under your stem. I run Truvativ bars with 2" rise and a old school 26" megamo stem with 25 degrees rise with 5mm stacker. I'm not saying you dont need the height to make the ride on a 24 a bit nicer, i'm just saying you dont have to make it look stupid with stackers if you dont want to.

Yip, as leon said, HA is the most important thing. If your looking for a bunny hop machine get a slack HA. That doesnt make it street because you can bunny hop it easy though. Has anyone ever thought about poping up on the front wheel and pulling some stunts? A slack HA makes it much harder to do front wheel moves because your body isnt far enough over the front of the bike (to begin with).

My geo on my Marino lets me have the best of both worlds. A low BB coupled with a short back end to let me feel better when manualing, a 73 degree HA to make the front wheel moves like Swiss Squeekers easier and a short Wb to keep it all compact and easy to bunny hop.

Saying that, im not taking sides of any wheel size. I was brought up on a 26 and ill always love the way they handle.

[snoolax]

Still concern bout where its okay some someone above 6 foot or 6 foot 2 to ride a 24". Its not nice feeling cramped up or look out of proportion with the bike.

Any 24" riders here who are fairly tall can give some opinions?

[LEON]

An inspired is longer than any of the 26" frames mentioned, with a steeper head angle so it'll have more room!!

In simple terms.....those old skool 26" frames are all more cramped than an inspired. im about 6ft, 6ft 2 is really not that tall, there's much taller people on this forum.

The size of the wheels makes no difference to reach/space

Edited November 17, 2009 by LEON

[snoolax]

thanks Leon!

Hope the market starts producing some 26 street trial bikes! we might just suddenly sees a decrease in 24" =p

[cultiv8ed_mike]

I'm 6'5" and used to ride an Inspired It wasn't ideally suited to tgs, natural, etc but then thats not why I bought it. It'd say its better than any current 26 for "streety" stuff as most 26" are geared towards tgs these days. It only ever felt a bit cramped to me for gapping but I could still manage it.

Oh and I had a zebdi back in the day which had a similar wheelbase but was definately worse to ride than an inspired.

Edited November 19, 2009 by cultiv8ed_mike

[Jason222]

just the frame at 2.75 is pretty heavy!

did u manage to find out what was the main reason for the bike sluggist behaviour? was it the geometry or the weight?

it might be the CG of the bike too forward as u mentioned that the fork itself is 1.45kg..

weight/geo/wheelsize.

Anyone ever notice that 24's seem insanely awkward to manual? I could manual a mod or stock for ages, but not my 24? Felix Mucke said he had this problem with his 24" marino too...

I think if I were to build another 24", the reach would have to be about 25.25" with a slack head angle(71~), mid wb(1050?), and low bb. Marino frames/forks are pretty gross for 24s too... Although, I probably wouldn't ride it like most 24" riders do...footjam whips are lame!

I'd still rather a 26" though. I actually like TGS bikes more for street. I find they're less limiting than 'streety' setups.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Jason222

[cultiv8ed_mike]

Anyone ever notice that 24's seem insanely awkward to manual? I could manual a mod or stock for ages, but not my 24? Felix Mucke said he had this problem with his 24" marino too...

Yea, they make the back end short so its still easy to hop but it makes it a bit twitchy to manual. I'm crap at manuals in general though

[snoolax]

well but unlike general 24, inspired has a pretty longback end at 385mm chainstay =)

a side question, whats a good geometry for a 26" or 24" TGS bike? just curious

[Jason222]

well but unlike general 24, inspired has a pretty longback end at 385mm chainstay =)

a side question, whats a good geometry for a 26" or 24" TGS bike? just curious

Can't say for 24. Damon built one up though.

But for stock, 1090 wb, +45 bb, 72 Ha, 385 cs, would be pretty nice!

[snoolax]

hey guys, need some opinions of how the zebdi Mk5 rides. Kinda like what are its strenghts and weakness in tis geometry. managed to dig up one in my area =)

well saw Leon's videos, i know he love it

Edited November 23, 2009 by snoolax