Freestyle Skiing/snowboarding

[Fish-Finger-er]

Right, my situation is this, I enjoy skiing, ive only done 3 weeks of it, but its gettin to the point where i feel ive got nowhere left to go really, went italy earlier in the year, and was hittin 65+% black runs.

the only direction I can see to take is freestyle,(not to mention its something Id enjoy, and it looks cool as f*ck) but im not really too sure where to get started, and the internets only really giving me useless advice.

Seen "learn to freestyle in a day" courses at indoor snowdomes for like £170(which im more than willing to pay) but if anyones been on these courses can they tell me if you learn anything/progress, they advertise being able to teach you to ride rails/boxes and hit kickers by the end of the day. But without any pictures, or testimony from the days im semi dubious, as if were talking sliding down a 2 foot wide grindbox, with a snow run up ramp(i.e no jumping on, you slide on) I dont really see that as learning much(As im sure given a box like that, Id be able to pick that up in a matter of minutes) and if the kickers simply falling off a 12 inch drop. It'd be cool if they could kinda show me techniques for how to hit a narrowish box/jump on stuff/land fakie(since I can already land from a couple of foot normal, but never really being able to try doing it fakie due to having skis that are only tipped at the front)

Also any advice on equipment(Since im debatin getting my own gear, as ill be spending £200+ on rental gear for this season) If I buy freestyle skis, will they be pretty much useless for anything else,likewise with boots? and on the flip side, Would I get by using regular skis+ boots (although thats pretty much out the question, since I really want to develop fakie, whether I bother doing freestyle or not)

My other option of course, is to take up snowboarding, which may be the better option, and will I get by with a regular board,with ratchet bindins and just a cool looking pair of boots for freestyle.(not that I see myself doing much in 2/3 days at a snowdome, then a week on the slopes, but hopefully the trip will be the first of 3 that season)

Mainly asking, as I may be holidaying with a mate and his family this year, his brother is semi into his freestyle snowboarding(as in he hits the parks etc as well as going on the mountain) so im gunna have somebody to go ride some jumps/boxes with. and his parents arent that brilliant at skiing, meaning after a couple of days at a snowdome etc, ill be able to keep pace with them on the mountain, meaning im not going to be boarding alone(as would be the case if I learnt on a holiday with just mates).

And on a related note, whos skiing where this year, when and why?

anyone thinking of doing the big snow festival in andorra, or snowbombing in austria (personally wanting to do both)

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Fish-Finger-er]

Aonach mor, Scotland... All year, because I live there and love skiing...

As for gear freestyle boots and ski's are great for everything! Great for flying down fast runs, and windy runs too... Allow you to lean into the turns much more, great for carving! Can flex more too when you need to get your weight back.

I found the salomon street racer tens were amazing ski's, great for normal fakies, just never land fakie with them... If you do, bad times are had. But amazing otherwise, good strong grinding edges, strong bottoms.. keep them waxed and they're great, not a bad price, and a good mix between speed and freestyle.

Yea see I want something I can land fakie with ideally(not least because I can already land fakie doing 180's on the flat/off small hips at slow speed,and spin out from fakie to regular), will look into them though (still mega unsure on it, as I kinda feel snowboarding could be more fun if i got into it properly, and its something I've always wanted to try) but then with skiing, im kinda part way there.

[DrDoom]

http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Elliot]

Hey

I am in vancouver as we speak, going to be heading up to Whistler to start a season as a liftee on sunday! Anyway, enough of my gloating. You have £200+ to spend? Do yo have your own boots? If not thats the place to start. Make sure you try on at least 6 or 7 pairs and primarily go with those that fit the best. I picked up a pair of skis on ebay and they turned out to be corkers! They are old (2004?) but as they have been looked after, come with bindings and where £120! There are a lot of people out there that buy skis, use them one or two weeks and then decide that they want to flog them (the same with boards as it goes). This means that there are some bargains to be had. Just make sure you read plenty of reviews, you ask how many weeks they have been used and if they have any scratches/repairs (and whether they are to the core of the skis).

As to learning, I would be tempted to learn out there. If your friend is handy, I would suggest finding a nice spot just a little way off piste and building yourself a kicker. Make sure it makes good use of the lay of the land and that there is plenty of powder for the landing. Me and a couple of mates went to Meribel in Feb and did exactly this and t'was great fun. The advantage is that screwing up a landing is fine if you land in powder. The only downside is that if you are off-piste and injure yourself you have to make it back onto the piste or you wont be covered for insurance, but that is why you dont go too far off.

Edit: for example

Edited October 30, 2009 by Elliot

[Fish-Finger-er]

great advice, I actually looked at them skis last night I think(despite them being too short)

I wouldnt say Im out for purely freestyle skis, as I do want to play round on the mountain a fair bit and not just in the parks, a lot of the ski instructors/ski guides were using twin tipped stuff, yet wouldnt be doing any freestyle, obviously their reason for having twin tup skis was that they could ski backwards to help instruct people/hand hold them down slopes.

are set ups like this:

rossignol

and

phil larose

just total crap, or are they perfectly suitable skis??

Ive also looked at the rossignol seven sins s4, both the s3 and the s4 skis mention either back country or all mountain use, which leaves me assuming theyd be alright for use as a general ski(bear in mind ive always been used to rental skis)

bindings I dont have a clue on, again being used to rental bindings, and never really having had a problem with them, I dont see that im going to be too fussy, but from what I can see decent bindings are only like £85, so ill make do with the ones I get with the skis, or just buy decent ones if I dont get them with the skis.

Is there much to know with boots? (I intend to get a proper boot fitting) or is it just a case of picking the lightest, best fitting, coolest looking boots my credit card will stretch too? only boot Ive seen with any kind of mention of anything relevant is a b12 bandit, which has a soft shell liner for big impacts and hard landings, but not sure whether thats just marketing blurb/it wont make a difference unless im jumping 30 foot onto ice.

The lad I know who does freestyle is a boarder, which means I cant really pester him for advice, hes basically just there as company in the parks etc.

[downhill_rob2@hotmail.com]

Pfft... skiiers!

[Elliot]

great advice, I actually looked at them skis last night I think(despite them being too short)

I wouldnt say Im out for purely freestyle skis, as I do want to play round on the mountain a fair bit and not just in the parks, a lot of the ski instructors/ski guides were using twin tipped stuff, yet wouldnt be doing any freestyle, obviously their reason for having twin tup skis was that they could ski backwards to help instruct people/hand hold them down slopes.

Thats pretty unlikely. Most twin-tips and free-style skiis in general really arent that bad at all to use as general knock about skiis, the instructors are using them cos they like em. Sure they cant go uber fast (although they can go fast enough to scare the shite out of me!) sure they not that hot in deep powder but they will do the job, and they will perform properly in park and when you want to mess around on piste. My skiis are free-style but I use them everywhere and the only thing I don't like about them is that they arent great in powder. But then you need to buy backcountry skiis (long and wide to float on powder) to really enjoy the powder, which to be honest generally wont be worth it in europe as there is not that much powder about most of the time.

are set ups like this:

rossignol

Those seem to me a split between backcountry and park skiis. Will you be using them in the powder much? If not then dont bother, as the extra weight from the extra width makes them heavier and harder to move around and spin (or so I have found).

and

phil larose

They seem more what I would go for, and I can image them being fine for the rest of the mountain, but always have a google around for reviews dude.

Ive also looked at the rossignol seven sins s4, both the s3 and the s4 skis mention either back country or all mountain use, which leaves me assuming theyd be alright for use as a general ski(bear in mind ive always been used to rental skis)

From looking at the Rossignol website, the S3s seem mostly for the back country. So mostly designed for deep powder meaning longer and wider, so not as great for park and piste as thinner and lighter skiis. The s4s are more the other way, predominantly park skiis they may be a little too flexy to be your only skiis. What you really need to do is decide what you want the skiis for. I went for skiis that were twin tip shape, but not so park and jib specific that they were pants on the piste. I found which ones I wanted by trawling ebay and reading as many reviews as I could.

bindings I dont have a clue on, again being used to rental bindings, and never really having had a problem with them, I dont see that im going to be too fussy, but from what I can see decent bindings are only like £85, so ill make do with the ones I get with the skis, or just buy decent ones if I dont get them with the skis.

Cant say I know a massive amount about bindings, but I would advise not to skimp on them too much! They are what stop you from breaking your legs when you screw something up so I would stay away from uber cheap and probably go with the advice of the sales assistant!

Is there much to know with boots? (I intend to get a proper boot fitting) or is it just a case of picking the lightest, best fitting, coolest looking boots my credit card will stretch too? only boot Ive seen with any kind of mention of anything relevant is a b12 bandit, which has a soft shell liner for big impacts and hard landings, but not sure whether thats just marketing blurb/it wont make a difference unless im jumping 30 foot onto ice.

The lad I know who does freestyle is a boarder, which means I cant really pester him for advice, hes basically just there as company in the parks etc.

With boots the best idea is to go to the shop and chat to the people there. Explain your needs and ask to try on a few boots in a few different sizes based on their recommendations. Then make a note of what you like and bugger off to another shop and repeat the process. Do this until you feel you have advice you trust and a pair of boots that you feel you can spend 8 hours in.

I hope there is some help in all this random text. Its been a few years since I have really know whats on the market and whats best to go for. But your buying gear that should last you, so speak to people and do as much research as you can, and if you want my opinion (as uninformed as it is!) feel free to drop me a pm.

ps I ski and board so ner downhill_rob!

[Tomm]

I think I can help:

Twin-tip skis make a cool plume of snow behind each ski. On that basis, they are cooler than normal skis. Get some.

[Fish-Finger-er]

I think I can help:

Twin-tip skis make a cool plume of snow behind each ski. On that basis, they are cooler than normal skis. Get some.

Really, So not only will I look cool with my skis sat next to me at one the of the bars on the slope, talking about "jib", "FS Spins" and "rad lines" people will know im cool on the slopes with my snow trails.

[Tomm]

Yes.

(Can you do FS spins on skis?)

[Fish-Finger-er]

Yes.

(Can you do FS spins on skis?)

Bollox, thats 1 person I must avoid when im telling my stories in the apres ski bars. I tell you what, if you do bump into me, dont question the story, and back me up if I start talking about the abdominal snowman. and theres a pint of heineken in it for you.

[Tomm]

Hehe, I hope to be able to hold you to that one day

[Fish-Finger-er]

Mahoosive bump, aimed towards Elliot, or anyone else whos ski'd places other than france/italy/austria etc.

booked a holiday to canada(panorama) in 4 weeks time, slightly worried, given the current temperatures there seeing out there, and the temperatures for the months of december and january, that im going to be skiing in minus 30-40.

Has anyone ski'd /boared in this temperature before? because im seeing this as a far cry from turning up in italy on a sunday avro, still hangin from a night out in manchester the night before, in last nights jeans, and a t shirt I changed in the airport bogs, walkin round the village in a t shirt till i checked in, and skiing in boxers, snowpants, tee and an open jacket. (the stuff Ive always ski'd in, be it january or march, but ive only ever done europe).

am I going to need to be wrapping up a bit more, and if so how much??

are we talking long johns and a vest? or adding a microfleece on top of that lot as well? im going to be packing a scarve, not that ive ever used one before, but if its minus 35 on the slopes, am I going to be needing a thermal balaclava under my beanie hat?

Really unsure, and not wanting to spend £100 on thermal gear I dont need, but likewise, not wanting to turn up grossly unprepared.

[JonCongreve]

Thermal balaclava might be a good idea at those temperatures haha.

My only advice would be layers layers layers! Take loads of t-shirts and long sleeves. I'd definately invest in 2 pairs of long johns and thermal top layers. You'll want a scarf to stop any cold/wind chill from getting round your neck ermmmm i think they're called Buff scarfs or something, but they fit over your head round your neck and will tuck nicely into your goggles.

[Sneakers O'Toole]

I wrote a very descriptive post but i've decided to go direct.

3 weeks ski-ing

65% black runs

Italy... and italy is notoriously easy.

Absolute bollocks.

[Willy]

What this man said. Ive done 2 winter seasons now, this being my third, 1 in France, these last 2 in Banff, Canada. The current temp outside is -30 and thats in town. The ski hills closed yesterday due to it being -55 with wind chill out on the slopes. If you dont know what you need to wear already, GTFO and go talk to someone that knows/has a clue. The whole reason they close hills at these temps are for clowns like you that dont have a clue and dont wear enough, go out for 10 minutes and come back in with frostbite on there cheeks, nose, chin, ears, you name it....

That sounds really attacking and its not supposed to be a direct attack at you, just a firm nudge in the right direction for wising up! A good mate of mine left for Pano a week ago and she tells me that its as cold there, seen as its only an hour and a half away.

Now more into the skiing side of things, Ive rode various skis throughout the 2 and a bit seasons I've done, everything from Salomon race skis to the big mountain skis to the new reverse cambered powder skis, by the sounds of it, your going to want an all mountain ski, I'm not going to go into brand names and paticular models here as I would be pretty dam biased, all I do is list some things that you should be looking for depending on what sort of skiing you will be aiming at.

Not knowing how tall you are or how much you way I cant begin to give you ski heights or widths and how they will effect your performance in regards to size. Some basic rules of thumb are as follows (of course some things do differ between people and situations but these should help "generally"), a longer heavier ski with a thinner centre measurement will give you a much quicker but slower responding ski, this set up is generally used for a racing ski. Wider tipped skis with a wider centre measurement are generally used as a powder ski, more surface area means a greater amount of lift under the ski and enables you to sort of "float" on the pow, always a good feeling. A smaller thinner ski, twin tipped and usually pretty light is the sort of set up you would be wanting for a park ski. This although not in much detail hopefully should give you a pretty decent outline of what a paticular ski is aimed at.

Personally I would go for an all mountain ski that is slightly smaller that your height, it sounds like you will be getting into the more parky stuff as I havnt heard you mention powder/back country at all (I know your new, but from the first time I could paralell turn I was straight into the powder/off piste stuff, big respect to the park riders, they do some crazy shit, but sitting around in the ice all day isnt my idea of skiiing), this will allow you to start getting tech on rails/jibs and still allow for you to go hit up the powder when/if you want to.

I would start listing ski's for you and can if necessary but I really can not recomend enough, even if your going to just blag it and not give them any business, go to and talk to people that work in proper ski shops, theres atleast one in pretty much every decent sized town/city and more likely than not you get people working there that are really knowledgeable, there advice is invaluable and they will be able to show you skis, test out boots and really let you get a feel for what different shapes and sizes can be/do.

Boots, Im pretty shite with, I just went and got some free ride aimed boots as they looked sick and it said they were meant for big drops on the box, I have other friends that will tell you the extra dollars arnt worth the buy as you wouldnt be able to tell the difference, the main thing for pretty much any skiier is comfort, freestyle or not, uncomfy boots will bloody ruin your day.

Poles you will want some big burly things that arnt going to snap, generally avoid carbon and probobaly steel if your new, Id go for some burly Alu ones as they will have some give should you fall on them and the extra strengh will help should you take any big stacks.

Wall of text or what?! Please dont take to much offence (if any) to what I've wrote, I've been around so many naive aussies for 2 seasons now, and it pisses me off more and more the tales you here of how people think a light leather jacket, scarf and jeans will do in the Canadian rockies. I'm sure your not this dumb though so I shall shut up.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

[Elliot]

Mahoosive bump, aimed towards Elliot, or anyone else whos ski'd places other than france/italy/austria etc.

booked a holiday to canada(panorama) in 4 weeks time, slightly worried, given the current temperatures there seeing out there, and the temperatures for the months of december and january, that im going to be skiing in minus 30-40.

Has anyone ski'd /boared in this temperature before? because im seeing this as a far cry from turning up in italy on a sunday avro, still hangin from a night out in manchester the night before, in last nights jeans, and a t shirt I changed in the airport bogs, walkin round the village in a t shirt till i checked in, and skiing in boxers, snowpants, tee and an open jacket. (the stuff Ive always ski'd in, be it january or march, but ive only ever done europe).

am I going to need to be wrapping up a bit more, and if so how much??

are we talking long johns and a vest? or adding a microfleece on top of that lot as well? im going to be packing a scarve, not that ive ever used one before, but if its minus 35 on the slopes, am I going to be needing a thermal balaclava under my beanie hat?

Really unsure, and not wanting to spend £100 on thermal gear I dont need, but likewise, not wanting to turn up grossly unprepared.

Hey man!

In whistler as I type and worked outside in -25 today as a lifty so standing around not doing much! I wore 2 pairs of long johns, ski socks, outershell pants, base layer top, midlayer top, fleece, softshell, outershell top, glove liners, gloves, hat, and neck warmer! I was toasty provided that I kept working, basically digging holes and moving snow around for no apparent reason!

In terms of clothes you want to not be wearing anything cotton; cotton will soak up your sweat and after you stop sweating you will be in wet clothes and f'ng freezing! You want to start with some wicking baselayers, wicking (and excuse me if I'm dumbing down too much!) means that your sweat will be pulled away from your skin meaning that when you stop sweating you wont freeze. The best of the best is Merino wool and the best merino is Icebreaker. Smartwool is also good merino, and there are some synthetic materials that work nearly as well, shit like bamboo based material I have found good. The good thing about Icebreaker and Smartwool and other Merino (and some treated synthetics) is that they are ant-bacterial and do not smell regardless of how long you wear them for so you do not need so many pairs!

If I were you I would get on ebay and pick up 2 pairs of top and bottom base layers, at least one of which Merino. I would buy a decent midlayer and 2 good fleeces. Think about your gloves, if they are decent then just get some liners made of powerstretch, which you can also pick up off ebay. Also get some Merino ski socks if you have not got some already. If you have a particularly cool mum like me, you may be able to do what I did and buy some polartech fleece material off ebay and persuade your mum to line your boarding pants with them, best idea in the whole world!

All this would be minimum worn altogether under the ski jacket and pants I'm presuming you have.

You will have an epic time, but do buy the clothes for it; you dont want to find yourself not wanting to go out because its too cold! That said if you do not have all the gear they will sell it there, and once you won it you sorted for whenever you need it. Buy off ebay too, I did, its cheaper and once its washed its clean!

My internet is a bit sketchy (i.e. stolen!) but drop me a pm if you have any other questions dude!

Good luck!

Edit: search these items on ebay: 170417757169 170417756025 140365192628 220297916140

Edited December 9, 2009 by Elliot

[Joe_Elding]

im looking to book my snowboarding holiday around now for februaryish, first time ive ever done it myself before as my mums usually taken care of it. But the question is wheres a good place to go? ive been to america a few times and loved it but dont really have the money to do it again, is there anywhere of a similar height in europe? I want somewhere with nice long runs and an ok jump park? (maybe even a decent halfpipe would be nice)

[Fish-Finger-er]

I wrote a very descriptive post but i've decided to go direct.

3 weeks ski-ing

65% black runs

Italy... and italy is notoriously easy.

Absolute bollocks.

Unless theres a major misunderstanding, im not talking bollocks, Ive done 2 weeks in france, 1 in Italy. In Italy, we just ski'd whatever we came across, hit a few black runs(some of which where extremely easy, others not so) on the lifts going up 2 of the runs, there were signs as you where getting on the lift " for expert skiers only, gradient exceeds 65%" or words to that effect. I got down both of them without too much hassle.

What this man said. Ive done 2 winter seasons now, this being my third, 1 in France, these last 2 in Banff, Canada. The current temp outside is -30 and thats in town. The ski hills closed yesterday due to it being -55 with wind chill out on the slopes. If you dont know what you need to wear already, GTFO and go talk to someone that knows/has a clue. The whole reason they close hills at these temps are for clowns like you that dont have a clue and dont wear enough, go out for 10 minutes and come back in with frostbite on there cheeks, nose, chin, ears, you name it....

That sounds really attacking and its not supposed to be a direct attack at you, just a firm nudge in the right direction for wising up! A good mate of mine left for Pano a week ago and she tells me that its as cold there, seen as its only an hour and a half away.

Wall of text or what?! Please dont take to much offence (if any) to what I've wrote, I've been around so many naive aussies for 2 seasons now, and it pisses me off more and more the tales you here of how people think a light leather jacket, scarf and jeans will do in the Canadian rockies. I'm sure your not this dumb though so I shall shut up.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

No offence taken mate, im trying to avoid the whole idiocy of going out there unprepared, but at the same time, I dont want to be sucked into snow and rock or wherever trying to flog me £400 worth of solar powered underwear.As when we had the talks on equipment the first time I went(as it was with my school) they basically told us we needed thermal base layers,a T shirt,fleece, then a ski jacket, which we bought. I then went to france and when we came back to the hotel for lunch, everything apart from the tee and the ski jacket got dumped.

As far as I could tell anything at like -20 or below, is really going to be, zero skin exposed. but i wasnt sure(since ive never skiied anywhere close to that cold, and Ive got mates whove been canada and never really mentioned what they wore.(as well as calgary being a fully functioning city at -25, obviously with people working outside, presumably not looking like a group of terrorists).

as for my equipment choices, ive pretty much bought what you suggested buying about 2 weeks ago, (elan zenmaster skis(same as the slingshot of this year) dynastar legend bindings, and rossignol bandit b14 boots) as for me being more into park than powder/back country, a large part of that was due to up until a week ago, I never thought I'd be going canada this year, and having only been to and at the time planning on going to europe, I wasnt expecting to see much this year, so getting big backcountry skis seemed rather pointless given that being in europe id be spending a lot of time on the piste. so the plan was to get a park ski for playing on, that I could hit the mountain on.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Fish-Finger-er

[Willy]

Zero skin exposure in a pretty good idea of things, but do not under estimate layers, France, Italy, Austria, pretty much all of skiable EU dosnt generally get this cold. Take a back pack on your first day up, and KEEP taking one, stash it, hide, put it in a locker, whatever, but if your on the hill, and the wind picks up and its already -30, if your missing even one peice of gear, your going to be f**king miserable for it. The big problem with most hills in Canada is that they arnt ski in ski out, so you dont have the luxury of going to the hotel to get your shit if your cold, its a 20 minute gondala ride to the base, then a 40 minute bus journey, then a 10 minute walk for me. Sounds like youve got your head screwed on though so I'll lay off. Just remeber a very simple fact that really does apply so much more here than in the EU imo, Its always better to be hot than not being able to warm up at all...

Good choice on the gear by the sounds of it, pretty much perfect for what I would of chosen for the way you were talking. Hope you have a sick time in Pano dude, if you get stuck for fun times, PM me and ill put you onto a good mate of mine out there, shes f**king mental and loves dick, so its always win (she will be able to out drink and drug you btw). If you come by Banff for a stop over/to ski at all hit me up aswell, I'll show you around and get you into some sick powder on the hills up in Sunshine/Lake Louise! Theres mini parks, but f**k all compared to what there will be, not enough snow to reap the mountain for a proper park yet!

Quick edit: Its more important that you look good anyway, so who gives a f**k about how his skiing is. Skis straight, pointing the right direction and looking life a fecking pimp will get him more cred than being able to stomp his carves in waist high, tree stuff (I dont actually like this idea, its just the general trend these days).

Edited December 10, 2009 by Willy