Camcorders, The Specs? The Meanings?

[eskimo]

I got myself a Canon HF200 literally last week. I have a feeling, it's not what i need or after. Ass! Hoping the camera specialists are about to answer and point in the right direction.

It's for riding, as probably guessed. I want clear smooth images as a main priority. HD isn't essential, but it would be nice. I'd love to be able to slow-mo clips and pause them (on Cam or PC) with decent results.

But all the specs are confusing. I've researched and checked reviews allot. I thought i was safe with the one i picked, seems not. But maybe some more play with it may get better results.

Here we go:

SD Flash drives VS Mini DV? One doesn't compress the other does, this comes into play? These are the only formats worth having right?

CCD ?? eerrrrm what? It seems this is a big player. Mine has a 1/4" CMOS, i understand 3CCD may be the best?

Image stabilisation. This isn't needed, or gets turned off when the use of fisheyes come into play? I will need one. And hopefully won't skimp here to much.

The HF200 has a DIGIC DV III Image Processor, this good? Or just cheap?

You could throw some recommendations at me too. I'm not made of money, but i look at it as it's pointless having a camcorder which doesn't do the job well. And i don't really want loads of crazy manual settings these Pro cameras have?

Thanks!

[edit]

Oh i forgot to say, i'm using a Sandisk Class 4 8gb card. So this isn't the problem i'm guessing.

Edited October 27, 2009 by eskimo

[Steve-A]

The Canon HF series cameras are really good in their price/size bracket. What is it about the camera you dislike?

Cameras that use a flashdrive/hard disk for recording normally use an mpeg or AVCHD codec, which means the images are recorded at full quality then compressed down, like you would an internet video , to fit on the media. Mini DV, to simplify it slightly, records all the information about the luminance of the image but only every other pixels colour.

So, in slow moving shots and flat light conditions the flash cameras will record nicer colour depth and vibrance, on the other hand for fast moving sports stuff you may start to see compression artifacts as their data rate is limited. The Mini DV camera will never show any signs of compression, but in some conditions the images will look less saturated and glossy.

CCD and CMOS are different types of image sensor. Both have their faults. CCD sensors aren't great in low light and super bright objects (like reflections of the sun or light bulbs) can cause the pixels ot overload momentarily causing a kinda vertical streak on the image.

CMOS sensors use a different shuttering system, which means if you're using a slow shutter speed you can get a certain amount of wobble and twist in your video image when doing fast movements with the camera. This effect is usually not so noticeable. If you are filming while people shoot photos, the flash can cause nasty artifacting on the final video.

Whether CCD or CMOS the larger the sensor if physical size the better. Larger sensors work better in low light and offer a greater range of depth of field.

If you're using a fisheye with any corner vignetting then you will need to turn steady shot off yes.

DIIC DV III is just a Canon brand name, and holds as much weight as bividus digestivum or whatever.

As far as recommendations go, if you want a small HD camera that produces nice high gloss images then the HF200 really isn't a bad call. If you're less worried about gloss, but want to capture action accurately then an old Vx2200 or similar Sony Mini DV camera was/is practically the standard for skate/bmx videos.

If you've a little more to spend then one of the Sony HDV camera such as the FX1000 offers both HD quality with tape recording and a larger camera size with top mounted handle.

To get frame rate options you'd need to spend a fair bit more than any of those cameras. That said its amazing the quality of slow-mo that can be produced using video shot at normal 25fps. The key is all in the way the software slows the clip down, high level software like Adobe After Effects can slow video down to 1/8ths speed and still look smooth, where as windows movie maker 1/2 speed often looks a little notchy.

[eskimo]

The HF200 is real smart, works fast, amazing picture quality when looking at the sky and trees etc. but when it comes to anything moving it's bluurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I had another play today, i really can't shoot anything smooth. It's just blur non stop. I used Corel Video Studio 12 and whatever i do with that it seems the blur won't go away. So i feel pretty bummed right now as i bought a £90 lens which will here tomorrow. (on top of the £700 PC i bought for editing and as a media centre, which leaves my £300 PS3 gathering dust). Crying time...

That Sony FX1000 seems way out of my league. £3000 is too much investment for me. I just wanted something for the future to look back on, among having a bit of fun with editing etc.

So in short, because a Mini DV doesn't compress it can film quicker? Because i do like Flash very much, but am willing to sacrifice this.

Ah, dinner is burning.

I would like to buy from Currys to get the insurance. So just a quicky, would this improve on the HF200.

I honestly did try to understand what you've said, but it seems it's passed straight over my head. I'll check back shortly and update if noone has replied.

Thanks!

[manuel]

Oddball on the blur... I have the hf100 - very similar to the camera you have an I get pretty crystal images... What settings are you on ? Are you sure you have the highest bitrate set?

[1a2bcio8]

The blur you're describing sounds like the frame rate of your camera is set too low. Although that depends on where you're experiencing the blur. Is it always blurry despite where you play back the footage - i.e. the camera, an editing suite, a media player, etc.? If all of these are blurry, then you need to up the frame rate on the camera. If the blur is confined to the editing suite, then you may have chosen the wrong settings for your footage. An adjustment of the frame rate for the camera might not be in those terms. It may be "shutter speed" or some other term that I can't think of.

Any chance you could upload some footage so that we can look at it?

Edited October 27, 2009 by Ben Rowlands

[max-t]

Film in 50i and fastest bit rate.

I have this camera my self and it's good for the price!

Also, try getting something more high end like Sony Vegas or Premiere Pro, Corel sucks ass.

Edited October 27, 2009 by max-t

[Steve-A]

On the hf200 you'll have a shutter speed priority mode. Try using larger numbers, faster shutter speeds. That should reduce the blur. You'd have the same high speed blur with any camera when the shutter speed is set low.

Like Rowan, I've got a canon hf series camera and it's blur is exactly the same as my Sony z1 and sony mini dv camera.

Ben, there are no frame rate options on the hf series besides 50i and 25p. Unless you're on shutter priority and have asked for a shutter speed below 1/50.

[club_card]

If your thinking about changing the camera then get the canon HV40 It´s a HDV camera and is the best camera for under a grand in my opinion i have the HV30 and i´m very very pleased, Look around see if you can get a better deal either the hv30 or the hv40 it´s basically the same camera.

Heres a link of a video i made HV30 video

[1a2bcio8]

Ben, there are no frame rate options on the hf series besides 50i and 25p. Unless you're on shutter priority and have asked for a shutter speed below 1/50.

Yeh sorry, shutter speed was what i meant. Momentarily thought frame rate meant shutter speed

[eskimo]

Firstly, thanks for the replies, all have helped!

My drives are pretty bummed at the moment, i'll restart and upload after this of 2 separate clips.

I've tried the 'Sports Mode' and 'Shutter Priority' set as 1/2000 (max) with similar results. The max shutter speed gives dark, poor coloured images and the Sports mode gives a nice overall picture, but both with max blur/ trail.

Both were at 24mbps with the Sandisk Ultra Class 4 card with more than enough writing speed for that.

Frame was set at 50i as normal.

x.v.color both on and off.

The blur isn't noticeable too much on the LCD Screen, very noticeable on Canon Preview Software, Corel Software, Camera->Component cables to TV and the few output files i've made with Corel.

I will buy Sony Vegas now i now it's compatible with Canon .mts files. I thought it only worked with Sony Camcorders, guess i got the wrong end of the stick. Corel seems pretty good, but it's only a demo so that's okay.

So yeah, i'll be back shortly as soon as this clip uploads!

Thanks.

[edit]

Forgot to say, i didn't have this much blur with my JVC Everio G series HDD camera. (a bit though). I'm also outputting this to a Toshiba Regza 32" 1080p via the Acer Desktop which is using a HDMI lead.

Edited October 28, 2009 by eskimo

[eskimo]

Here's the two clips.

The lighter looking clip, (the first i think) is Sports Mode. The darker one on the spine is the shutter speed at max.

I just made that clip above better. Uploaded a much better quality one. Should be done shortly. Here's the LINK. If that doesn't work, look for 'DEMO2'.

I just searched the Canon HFS100.

it looks amazing! Each frame can be seen clearly. This is what i'm after as an example.

Thanks.

Edited October 28, 2009 by eskimo

[Steve-A]

You should only need to set the shutter to something like 1/250 to remove most if not all blur.

I'll be interested to see how the test clip looks

[eskimo]

It looks like we've found the problem. The output of the final file.... That's the first time i've outputted an Mpeg, and at full reso it's pretty sweet.

I will try some more footage too. But i'll ask some other questions while we're at it.

Sports Mode or 1/250 FPS?

Sony Vegas is okay with the Canon .mts then?

What settings isit best to use with this Lens?

Any other pointers that need saying? (big learning curve for me on this)

Thanks.