Question Time.....nick Griffin

[Adam-Griffin]

Just watching it now, this guys f**king hilarious.

[seaine]

Come on Allen, if a white horse was born in a stable where only black horses live, it's still a f**king horse. The whole "dog born in a stable" thing is utter bollocks, it's like saying if a human was given a water-birth, is it a fish?

+1 this is true

[Muel]

Apparantly he's already been onto the news people complaining about bias against him, I'll be very surprised if this doesn't actually gather some sympathy for the BNP, they were treating him like some kind of peasant last night who didn't have a clue, and seemed to forget that he had just as much right to represent his party as any of them.

EDIT: Anyone bought the Daily Mail today by any chance? Just struck me it'd be interesting to see which side they're coming from.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Muel

[Mark W]

When we don't allow for voices to be heard, regardless of how unpleasant we find them, it's a dangerous game.

They're allowed to be heard, and a lot of the time yesterday it was members of the panel or the audience asking him to explain or justify things he'd said before. If anything, it just proved that he WAS being allowed to say what he wanted, but was just being asked to explain it on that show - which he couldn't, unsurprisingly.

The thing I don't understand with the BNP is that they will never, ever get into power, and they won't change anything, so what's the motivation to continue on with it all? It just seems like one long publicity stunt...

[PaRtZ]

for some humour:

Cassetteboy works quick!

Youtube Video ->

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[Adam-Griffin]

'I believe the holocaust was an enormous party where the nazis just did what needed to be done'

I actually Laughed out loud at that haha.

[1a2bcio8]

They're allowed to be heard, and a lot of the time yesterday it was members of the panel or the audience asking him to explain or justify things he'd said before. If anything, it just proved that he WAS being allowed to say what he wanted, but was just being asked to explain it on that show - which he couldn't, unsurprisingly.

The thing I don't understand with the BNP is that they will never, ever get into power, and they won't change anything, so what's the motivation to continue on with it all? It just seems like one long publicity stunt...

I haven't actually seen the question time, in question. I was talking with reference to the impressions that others were giving of that particular show. Might be worth a watch if I want to comment further if you're suggesting that aspect of situation was different. However, I did read the bbc report and it quoted various individuals involved in the protest who were suggesting that the BNP shouldn't be given any kind of platform because it validates them. I still maintain by point in reference to that.

Last I heard though, the BNP were growing in popularity. Support for such parties seems to relate to broader events such as the recession and its effects. People seem to turn to the BNP when they are looking for a direction to channel their anger - my experience certainly confirms that anyhow. If I remember correctly and according to a study by Erich Fromm, Nazi Germany was founded, to a good extent on the harsh economic sanctions imposed on Germany following the first world war. Or at least, those sanctions substantially promoted support for Nazi attitudes. What I'm trying to say is that potentially certain socio-economic factors could allow, at least in theory for the BNP to come to power. It just depends on how unhappy people are. Hopefully the BNP will never come to power though but if they do, it will also say something unfortunate about the social climate.

[yoyoyo]

There was so much hypocrisy in that episode it annoyed me. Bonnie (?) was talking about how the person who wrote the gateley article had freedom of speech and may not be nice but could write it. Yet anything Griffin said was automatically wrong.

I don't fully agree with the BNP, obviously not with the racist parts, but they have some good policies, though they may need altering slightly. But the fact everyone seems to instantly hate everything they say based on the white issue, even if it has nothing to do with that issue is frustrating.

[minitrialer]

Some real interesting replies so far, although I must say I couldn't disagree with this irrelevant statement more - Is a dog born in a stable a horse? Anyway... I think part of the reason he was treated the way he was, was probably something to do with some of his ridiculous opinions, ie holocaust denial.

There was so much hypocrisy in that episode it annoyed me. Bonnie (?) was talking about how the person who wrote the gateley article had freedom of speech and may not be nice but could write it. Yet anything Griffin said was automatically wrong.

The point is that he had the freedom of speech, she didn't stop him talking, she just questioned what he said, just like she questioned the woman who wrote the article about Steven Gately. I personally don't think she wasn't being a hypocrite.

[Muel]

Nick Griffin has turned the BNP around, and in my opinion, there definitely should be a strict limitation on immigration into this country.

You're joking right? He's a holocaust denier, he has convictions of insighting racial hatred, and he spoke at a white supremicist's meeting in America, where he actually said that their aims were to tone down their act, sell it to the british people and then one day when they control the media, maybe all the british people will all vote that, "every one of them must go".

As video'd here:

Youtube Video -> Original Video

That's why they were all giving him so much stick and picking him up on every detail, because he's a piece of filth and the BNP are as devoutly racist as they ever have been.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Muel

[Andrew Willis]

everyone rekons that BNP is all hell, however they have some pretty valid points, such as the amount of moscs getting built over here in our country its a joke at one time, it would have been a massive sin to even think of that.

[Muel]

That is a front, they're as racist as they ever have been. Their policy isn't to promote British people and culture and christianity at all, it's to get every black or asian person out of Britain.

The front the put on has some valid points I agree with, some I don't but there have been investigations done including the Channel 4 one going undercover in the BNP, and they prove that they are as racists as they ever have been, and their leader is actually on video saying that the BNP's aims are to sell this front to the British people, then take control of the British Media, then persuade every white british personthat, "every single one of them (meaning black and asian decended people) must go".

Ignore the front, if you think that Immigration has gone too far and we should try to promote British culture a little more, vote conservative. There are thousands of people who live here who considor themselves British, were born here, have British Passports, might well be Christian and have totally embraced the culture because they were born here, but because they're not white then in the eyes of the BNP, they're not British and ultimately if they get into power, they'll have to go.

[Token]

I'm not too into my history, but isn't the current economic and social climate probably quite likened to that of Germany in the 1930's? BNP getting into power could theoretically start a WW3 by pissing off every Islamic country by making every ethnic minorities life a misery with the BNPs agenda.

[anzo]

I don't agree with this. Is a dog born in a stable a horse? (the old one are always the best)

No, a dog is a dog, a horse is a horse. As I am a human. A place of birth is your origin, it does not change what you are.

[Pashley26]

Irrelevant stuff to the conversation.

Forget I made this post

Edited October 25, 2009 by Pashley26

[Ben Swales]

We should run a similar system to the USA though, where by you need to be skilled or married to someone from here initially to be allowed to stay

Or be born there?

[anzo]

Nationality should be more of a heritage thing rather than a location thing

I don't quite understand what you're getting at?

It sound like you're trying to suggest that the world should be 'open'...as an example nobody has a nationality, and they can go and move/live where ever they desire?

[Tony Harrison]

The increasing popularity of the BNP worries some people, but really this is just a reflection of the increasing number of people who are voting for them. This indicates then that an increasing number of people are preferring the policies of the BNP to those of other parties.

The whole point here is that we have free speech and democracy, so that we can vote for who we want. If one group of voters begin to protest that a particular party should be shut down, then surely these angry voters must be worried that too many people are going to vote for that party and hence they will rise even higher. If so, are these protestors not literally saying "We don't like that so many people agree with a party that we don't, therefore it should be shut down."?

Isn't this where democracy goes to sh't? We have a voting system, but seemingly it's only of so much use, seeing as some believe they have a right to dictate how others should place their votes.

I don't support any political party, and don't bother voting, however I respect that whichever party comes to power in my local area or indeed parliament is a reflection of the wishes of the greater part of the population. That's how the f'cking system works. It's why we're not a nation of Communist f'cktards that ban opposition.

[anzo]

That's how the f'cking system works. It's why we're not a nation of Communist f'cktards that ban opposition.

Exactly.

I was rather annoyed the other day, walking through Derby City Centre and a guy was stood selling Socialist Worker magazine, shouting;

"Stop the big bonuses, stop the facist BNP" and things of that nature. I swear to god that publication just has an issue with anyone slightly successful in life.

"Stop the big bonuses" is one that particularly annoyed me - the people who recieve such bonuses are ones who have a LOT of responsibilty, they call the shot that can make or break a big business and can even ruin the country. They worked hard (usually) to get in that position so surely they deserve it? Because I'm sure if he were in that position he'd give his bonus up.

I find most Socialists want everything for nothing. Equality doesn't work.

I agree everyones entitled to their own opinions, but I don't particularly enjoy having their opinions preached to me.

Edited October 27, 2009 by anzo

[Spider Lad]

I was rather annoyed the other day, walking through Derby City Centre and a guy was stood selling Socialist Worker magazine

I hate these lots, you get them in Liverpool city centre too. The same bunch in the same spot. A big problem I have withn them is the don't actually work. The irony...

[1a2bcio8]

"Stop the big bonuses" is one that particularly annoyed me - the people who recieve such bonuses are ones who have a LOT of responsibilty, they call the shot that can make or break a big business and can even ruin the country. They worked hard (usually) to get in that position so surely they deserve it? Because I'm sure if he were in that position he'd give his bonus up.

I think the point is with big bonuses is that they exist whilst simultaneously people are living below the poverty line. These "big bonuses" don't greatly enrich the lives of those that recieve them but would greatly do so to those that cannot afford the basic neccesities of life. Often these great responsibilities you talk of are in reference to share holders rather than society in a broader sense, so how meaningful is that responsiblility? We certainly wouldn't talk of the rewards that should follow for a tyrant with great responsibility. What about our responsibility to other human beings?

I would prefer a societal structure where wealth was more equally distributed. I'm not saying exactly the same wealth per person, but certainly a shortening of the current gap between the richest and the poorest. The current state of things, for me, unfortunately symbolises greed, selfishness and an evaluation of human worth defined by how good somebody is at making money. I would prefer compassion, love and an evaluation of human worth defined by the fact somebody is human. According to the latter approach, one would not want very rich people when there are very poor people.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Ben Rowlands

[F-Stop Junkie]

To everyone who has said thus far "The BNP have some good policies.." Like what? Tell me what those policies are. I'm just interested as I haven't read their manifesto.

For the record, the number of votes the BNP has received in recent elections hasn't increased. Instead the voter turnout generally has decreased due to voter apathy. The next election campaign should be headed up by the slogan "For God's sake vote! For anyone. Except the BNP."

BTW, Socialist Worker seller in favour of socialist ideals shocker.

The problem with big bonuses is not that they are somehow anti-society, but that people will chase their bonus and do what they need to in order to secure it. It doesn't matter if it's someone selling loans in a call centre or an investment banker hoping to reach £1bn in trading profit for the year. I just think that if a company, who has taken no Government money and has made £12bn profits in a year wants to throw a couple of million to some of it's employees, then it's no-one's business but their own. Plus for bank staff at all levels, the bonus is not some great pile of free money, but just part of their overall pay. Instead of getting £10k a year, they might get £9k a year, with an expectation that they'll get £1k in a bonus. It may be more if they do very well, it may be less if they don't.

Get rid, or limit, bank bonuses, and either banks will move, or they'll find a way round it.

[anzo]

To everyone who has said thus far "The BNP have some good policies.." Like what? Tell me what those policies are. I'm just interested as I haven't read their manifesto.

Click Me

For the record, the number of votes the BNP has received in recent elections hasn't increased. Instead the voter turnout generally has decreased due to voter apathy. The next election campaign should be headed up by the slogan "For God's sake vote! For anyone. Except the BNP."

Total Votes (General Election)

1997

Total votes cast: 31,286,284

BNP: 35,832

2001

Total votes cast: 26,368,204.

BNP: 47,129

2005

Total votes cast: 27,110,727

BNP: 192,746

Edited October 27, 2009 by anzo

[F-Stop Junkie]

Bah, stupid statistics proving me wrong. Fair point.

Still fuming that I got a leaflet through the door saying "People like you vote BNP!" No they bloody well don't.

[anzo]

Still fuming that I got a leaflet through the door saying "People like you vote BNP!" No they bloody well don't.

I agree with that; but unfortunately that tactic is used by everyone, Labour, Cons, Lib Dem...not just the BNP.

All the political parties aim to be the 'voice of the people'. Look at those cheesy election videos the parties bring out - 'I work in a factory, and I vote ______. I work in an office, and I vote _______, I an unemployed bum, and I vote _______'.

Although I remember a while ago, I think it was for the local elections, the BNP were posting leaflets. They posted it through one womans door (she obviously saw them coming and waited), she grabbed the leaflet, opened the door and threw it back in his face and told him to "f**k off my property you racist scum". A few days later she had one of those 'Vote Labour' signs in her window - much better