Alex Dark Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Good point.Do White industries?This is my main issue with King hubs. Even more than the money.I like 116mm frames so I'm gonna need a BMX hub.Now the standard answer to running in a Chris King is to give it to some XC bitch and let them bed it in for you.How can I do this with a BMX hub?Also, lack of disc brake compatibility in this category is a bit disappointing also (however completely understandable) Matget a bmx rider to bed it in for you?you can put an iso hubshell with a disc mount on if you want a disc that badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMcd Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Hmmm... This could be an idea.. A freewheel with the same principle internals as a king?Would that work? It would surely be a fairly good idea to be honest Edited September 1, 2009 by RossMcd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hmmm... This could be an idea.. A freewheel with the same principle internals as a king?Would that work? It would surely be a fairly good idea to be honest I had the beginnings of a design going into CAD last year but I've no idea where it is now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Packaging a freewheel with similar internals to a King would be pretty difficult - the freewheel would probably have to be made wider and a lot more bearings would be needed to support the moving parts. The cylindrical layout of the mechanism suits the shape of a hub much better than the shape of a freewheel. It would cost something ridiculous too (All the same expensive and precise machining as the hub needs) and produce a freewheel that has the same skipping behaviour as a King hub but with a shorter distance from the outer seals to the critical drive rings, requiring more maintenance than a hub to keep it skip free. Also with an 18:15 gear for example a 72 click King hub at the rear is the same as a 86.4 click freewheel, so pickup is marginally quicker for a hub with the same number of clicks as a freewheel. On an 18:12 mod it's a lot quicker, needing a 108 click freewheel to match a 72 click hub. It's slightly academic really though given the number of people happy with 48 click Hope hubs.I don't know what warranty White Brothers offer on ENO's, but that's mostly because I've never heard of anyone trying to collect on the warranty. The only ones I've heard about failing are so chronically maladjusted and abused that it's already a miracle they've lasted so long to begin with. Also the spares are cheap enough that warranty support isn't a prerequisite to being able to afford to fix them and replacing them outright is an option that won't bankrupt you too.I've had a grand total of no skips from my freewheel since I bought it and have given it negligible maintenance. With King hubs they have to be pulled apart every so often just to keep them running reliably. I'd rather pay less and do less maintenance work to be honest.Regarding cranks - The first set of Middleburn cranks I bought outlasted a few frames and many square taper BB axles and are still going years later after I sold them on. The next set of ISIS Middleburns I got I used for 2 years and sold on with the bike at the start of 2008. For comparison since I went to FFW I'm on my 4th RH crank (One was my fault - unevenly ground the bashguard down, misaligning the freewheel, the others were pedal threads pulling out) since Jan 2008. The cost in replacement cranks is still not enough to justify going to a King hub (And is not the fault of the freewheel anyway but something to keep in mind), but all the failures were safe in that they could have happened in the middle of a big power move and still not affected power delivery enough to cause an accident the way the loss of a full pedal stroke when a King skips would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Have you owned a King hub?I know of a couple of ENOs that have been warrenteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 get a bmx rider to bed it in for you?you can put an iso hubshell with a disc mount on if you want a disc that badly No BMX riders round here I would trust- Didn't know that second bit, Is that correct? nearly swayed now.Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun H Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Packaging a freewheel with similar internals to a King would be pretty difficult - the freewheel would probably have to be made wider and a lot more bearings would be needed to support the moving parts. The cylindrical layout of the mechanism suits the shape of a hub much better than the shape of a freewheel. It would cost something ridiculous too (All the same expensive and precise machining as the hub needs) and produce a freewheel that has the same skipping behaviour as a King hub but with a shorter distance from the outer seals to the critical drive rings, requiring more maintenance than a hub to keep it skip free. Also with an 18:15 gear for example a 72 click King hub at the rear is the same as a 86.4 click freewheel, so pickup is marginally quicker for a hub with the same number of clicks as a freewheel. On an 18:12 mod it's a lot quicker, needing a 108 click freewheel to match a 72 click hub. It's slightly academic really though given the number of people happy with 48 click Hope hubs.You're right it's difficult to package the mechanism, I'm still not sure if my design was workable, I'll have to revisit it when I get enough spare time. However since the rings can have a larger diameter you can either have bigger/deeper/longer teeth or more engagement points!I don't know what warranty White Brothers offer on ENO's, but that's mostly because I've never heard of anyone trying to collect on the warranty. The only ones I've heard about failing are so chronically maladjusted and abused that it's already a miracle they've lasted so long to begin with. Also the spares are cheap enough that warranty support isn't a prerequisite to being able to afford to fix them and replacing them outright is an option that won't bankrupt you too.The same spiel about maladjustment/abuse can be said about Chris King failures!I've had a grand total of no skips from my freewheel since I bought it and have given it negligible maintenance. With King hubs they have to be pulled apart every so often just to keep them running reliably. I'd rather pay less and do less maintenance work to be honest.Zero skips? The same goes for my King! Plus I'm more than prepared to maintain my hub in return for the increased performance, slightly lower weight and the long-term saving over pawl type systems.Regarding cranks - The first set of Middleburn cranks I bought outlasted a few frames and many square taper BB axles and are still going years later after I sold them on. The next set of ISIS Middleburns I got I used for 2 years and sold on with the bike at the start of 2008. For comparison since I went to FFW I'm on my 4th RH crank (One was my fault - unevenly ground the bashguard down, misaligning the freewheel, the others were pedal threads pulling out) since Jan 2008. The cost in replacement cranks is still not enough to justify going to a King hub (And is not the fault of the freewheel anyway but something to keep in mind), but all the failures were safe in that they could have happened in the middle of a big power move and still not affected power delivery enough to cause an accident the way the loss of a full pedal stroke when a King skips would be.Then you must be buying crap cranks surely? It doesn't take a genius to point out that cheaper cranks (a set of Middleburns is far more than any FFW crank) aren't going to be as good! A decent set of original cranks plus 4X RH cranks and you should have spent the same amount of £s as a King would cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Mine just arrived 5 minutes ago from tarty bikes, i must say, first impressions are very good, looks and sounds amazing and i have just sold a king and I'm happy about the change !Will update after a few rides From another topic about the new tensile freewheel...........Matt Edited September 1, 2009 by Matt Vandart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Manning Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I agree, I've never even considered a king due to the price range and horror stories about it skipping 180 degrees. I'd rather have 3 enos.i can vouch for that, i've owned 2 king hubs, one iso and one classic. 1 of them did skip when i kicked up to a fence from rear wheel to rear wheel, the drive did a full 180 degrees and i went over the bars. The other 1 was perfect no problems what so ever.I'm currently running a Try-all 108.9 ep freewheel on the cranks, had no problems with this. I've also used Eno's with a 72 ep. I do find a higher pick up easier to ride, but at the cost of paying £360 for a king, a freewheel would win everytime. There are even alot of people having problems with pro 2's these have a 48 ep, but people are ripping the teeth out or snapping axles. Freewheel is simple to run, and esy to fix, cheap to replace in comparison. The freewhell can be run on cranks or on rear hub, so appeals to all rider's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I totally disagree here... I destroyed 3 pro 2's in a month and my king is as strong as ever!!! I have seen ffw fall apart.Perhaps you were lucky. Over here, I know of nobody who is happy with his King. One of my mates just broke the HD axle for the 2nd time in a few months - he's a complete novice. Another mate of mine did the same, yet another has had endless problems with the ring drive skipping non stop and threw his hub away. And about a year ago I had a BMX King which I think had it's axle replaced 3 times and broke for the 4th time a few weeks after I sold it on, then had problems with bearings.Oh, and the best thing about warranty is that it costs a f**king bomb to get anything replaced. Not only do you have to send it to the US, but CK enter the hub value in the customs declaration so you pay loads of tax when you get it back.I'm sorry, I used to respect Chris King but this company needs to get it's act together and start making proper parts again. I have one of their hubs which has NEVER let me down - but it's at least 5 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason222 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 I messed up my king pretty badly this year when I rode it in the spring. All the salt/dirty water/sand/grit totally raped the insides. Also did a number on some of my other parts...but thats what you get when you live in Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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