Mtb Vs Bmx For Street And Dirt

[zoster]

hi !

I'm just curious why do some people choose to ride a MTB instead of a BMX for street and dirt riding. I'm excluding here street-trials, i'm referring to "pure" street, if there is such a thing (which from what i konw, is a bmx discipline that migrated to mtb).

from what i've seen (not actually ridden), mtb is sloppier, less manouvreble, looks worse, and is more expensive then a bmx, so why choose mtb? what do mtb bikes have to offer when it comes to street and dirt?

[manuel]

what do mtb bikes have to offer when it comes to dirt?

more money...

[Christophe']

more money...

nah ........crankworks

[MadManMike]

For me, I find BMX's far too small and annoying.

My street bike (24" DMR Rhythm) is multi purpose - I can cruise around listening to music or I can hop over stuff and do random tricks if I feel like it.

30 seconds sat down on a BMX kills my arse and legs.

[austen]

For dirt jumping, 24"(mtb) are far nicer than bmx imo. Bmx's are amazing for park and street yes, but for jumping, they dont have as much forgiveness if things go wrong, and they don't feel as stable in the air i think. and I can jump further and higher on a mtb than i can on a bmx. MTBs give me more confidence than bmx's, unless its for park, that's where bmx's own.

[Mark W]

A good question, bearing in mind MTBing in general is about 10 years behind BMX in every sense. The way that MTBing in every category (e.g. street, park, dirt) simply copies BMX as close as it can, it's always going to be at least one step behind. Making up for a lack of bike control by adding suspension and larger diameter wheels into the mix doesn't help this. I haven't ever, ever seen someone on an MTB look anywhere near as good as a BMX in any context, apart from actually riding them down mountainous terrain - which doesn't include dirt.

It just seems annoying that a lot of people base their experience on BMX on riding a cheap, shit complete. So many times on here I've seen people say "Cheap BMX wanted", then spend £80 on a total piece of shit. They can't ride it 'cos it's toss, then throw down several hundred quid on a mountainbike and say it rides better. No shit! If you spent under £100 on a trials bike it'd probably ride badly, and BMXs are no different. Similarly, most completes tend to have shorter toptubes, so most of them will feel cramped. They generally have smaller bars too. In any case, if you get products and a frame that fit, you can always find a BMX that'll be perfectly rideable. Bearing in mind you can get frames in any top-tube length from 18.5"-22" with plenty of stops in between (and a plethora of companies who would be all too happy to make a custom length frame for you), you will find one that fits.

EDIT: Oh, and about 'stability' and stuff like that for riding trails - notice how the majority of BMX trails are bigger and steeper than MTB jumps (Which typically have a mellower landing, which seems largely to make up for a lack of rider skill...), and it would suggest that you just need to get used to riding BMX more instead of writing them off as 'not being as good as MTBs'.

[austen]

It's nothing to do with the jumps i don't think, and all the trails that are do able on bmx, are just as doable on mtbs, and plenty of people do, do them on mtbs. i've ridden bmx on jumps for ages, i ride them in parks all the time and i can jump them fine, they just feel odd in the air. They feel to small to be able to trick of anything, but that's just my own opinion.

And this lack of bike control shit, is a load of shit. Your telling me that every bmxer has amazing bike control and don't ever fall, or over shoot a jump or just land badly? I said mtbs are more forgiving IF you do make a mistake, which is true.

[eskimo]

I agree with Austen in some ways. Mainly about stability and forgiving. MTBs also offer better brake performance whitest being cheaper and less hassle.

But no matter how well each bike is superior at different styles, people will always enjoy the style of riding one offers.

You could argue the 'no brakes' thing here too. It comes into the same sense in my eyes.

[shamus]

A good question, bearing in mind MTBing in general is about 10 years behind BMX in every sense. The way that MTBing in every category (e.g. street, park, dirt) simply copies BMX as close as it can, it's always going to be at least one step behind. Making up for a lack of bike control by adding suspension and larger diameter wheels into the mix doesn't help this. I haven't ever, ever seen someone on an MTB look anywhere near as good as a BMX in any context, apart from actually riding them down mountainous terrain - which doesn't include dirt.

It just seems annoying that a lot of people base their experience on BMX on riding a cheap, shit complete. So many times on here I've seen people say "Cheap BMX wanted", then spend £80 on a total piece of shit. They can't ride it 'cos it's toss, then throw down several hundred quid on a mountainbike and say it rides better. No shit! If you spent under £100 on a trials bike it'd probably ride badly, and BMXs are no different. Similarly, most completes tend to have shorter toptubes, so most of them will feel cramped. They generally have smaller bars too. In any case, if you get products and a frame that fit, you can always find a BMX that'll be perfectly rideable. Bearing in mind you can get frames in any top-tube length from 18.5"-22" with plenty of stops in between (and a plethora of companies who would be all too happy to make a custom length frame for you), you will find one that fits.

EDIT: Oh, and about 'stability' and stuff like that for riding trails - notice how the majority of BMX trails are bigger and steeper than MTB jumps (Which typically have a mellower landing, which seems largely to make up for a lack of rider skill...), and it would suggest that you just need to get used to riding BMX more instead of writing them off as 'not being as good as MTBs'.

Fact

hmmm i agree that mtbs (IMO) should stay with mountains, i don't ever feel the need to try and 'trick' my mtbs (i guess minus the trial bike).

but i hate even trying to ride 'bmx' lines on any mtb. the extra size and slacker geometry leaves them miles behind in terms of tricking and ride precision.

the smaller size means you have much more control and finesse, making moves actually look and feel good.

ok fair enough, the urban 'jibbing' would not be possible on a bmx in many cases. but i've never seen anyone huck a 'street' bike further then i've seen a bmx yanked!

[Mark W]

And this lack of bike control shit, is a load of shit. Your telling me that every bmxer has amazing bike control and don't ever fall, or over shoot a jump or just land badly? I said mtbs are more forgiving IF you do make a mistake, which is true.

I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but I'm saying that if you don't have a load of suspension to rely on, you will learn to ride better because you don't have it as a crutch to make up for f**king stuff up.

[Haz]

MTBs also offer better brake performance whitest being cheaper and less hassle.

The brake on my bmx is as good as if not better than most mountain bike brakes, and my bmx has cost me significantly less than my trials bike set up.

As for being less hassle, I don't really get that. A bmx is as simple as it gets, with an MTB you could have all manor of gears and suspension set ups.

[Milford Cubicle]

Dirt jumps, depending on who built them will ride better on either a bmx or mtb, you'l be able to ride them on both but if there real trails then they will be better on one than another. Also personally i feel a lot better in the air on a 24 mtb rather than a bmx, big jumps on bikes that small are scarier IMO

billx

[Max Quinn]

BMXs strraight up look better, all my mates who ride 24" will tell you that. The ammount of tricks possible on them is also alot more, this as far as i'm concerned is FACT.

Alot of people say they ride mtb cos bmx's are too small, or hurt their backs which is fair enough. But Marks right in that these people are often judging on bmx's that don't fit them and don't realise how much difference an extra inch in top tube length and bar height can actually make to the feel of a bike.

Milford's right in that different trails ride better on different bikes depending on if mtb or bmx riders built them, but mtb trails are also generally alot less techy and not as fast or flowy due to more mellow landings. Also, if you take into account the top UK mtb trails, and then the top UK BMX trails and the riders on them, you'll realise that the bmx trails scene is pretty much superio: bigger jumps, more tech lines, and riders going higher, smoother and throwing in more tricks.

[eskimo]

The brake on my bmx is as good as if not better than most mountain bike brakes, and my bmx has cost me significantly less than my trials bike set up.

I bet my brake is better than yours

My point being, i have CRV pads on a chrome rim which means shit all in even slightly poor conditions. I've always found i can just throw on a vee brake and it works great and requires less attention. I'm also able to ride through dust, dirt and rain and it'll work as new within a few minutes. Plus they cost less overall. Then you've got disc, which is flawless in any situation until you hit it of course.

But anyway, i like MTB. It's different to BMX. I said MTB, not MTB with BMX parts. It feels much different, rides different and is just like removing brakes or adding pegs in my eyes. Because i adapt my tricks/ style to the bike.

[Mark W]

If you're going as far as CRVs, you might as well f**k the chrome rim off, run a normal rim and at least have a slightly more reliable brake?

By "adapt my tricks/style" - do you just mean when you get on an MTB you join their 'style' of looking wooden as f**k? But nah, I enjoy riding MTBs, but only on off-road kinda shit like downhill, singletrack, etc. It's what they're made to do, and it's what they're best at. If you're just going to try and bite BMX, it's no different to trying to do it on a fixie. At the end of the day, you're still just using the wrong tool for the job.

[austen]

I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but I'm saying that if you don't have a load of suspension to rely on, you will learn to ride better because you don't have it as a crutch to make up for f**king stuff up.

Yeah which is true enough, but if you start on a mtb then try bmx, many people won't have the confidence to go big on there bmx, incase things go wrong. So they learn to ride just as smooth on a mtb.

So saying people on mtbs have less "rider skill" than bmx riders, is a load of rubbish. But in the trick department, yes bmx is always one step ahead of mtb, because you can do more of a variety of tricks e.g. grinds, feebles and such like.

And im not understanding this bmx trail stuff, yeah when you watch videos of bmxers riding trails the jumps are big and steep, but any semi decent mtb'er would be capable or riding the same trails. Personally I think bmx trails look so much fun since there fast a flowy, and have lines everywhere, and i would love to ride them on my 24". But it sounds to me like your trying to say mtb'ers can't ride bmx trails cause they arnt skilled or smooth enough. Which i don't agree with. Sorry if i've got the wrong end of the stick haha.

[Mark W]

BMX trails are steeper and bigger. MTB jumps are mellower. Because the landings are steeper on BMX trails, you have less margin for error, as in it's easier to land flat/hang-up. With most MTB trails, they've got mellower landings to make them easier to land if you f**k up.

I was saying that BMXers tend to have more bike control than MTBers because you need it to ride a BMX. You can get away with stuff a lot easier on an MTB, so if you don't have that option, you have to ride better to be able to land stuff.

[austen]

BMX trails are steeper and bigger. MTB jumps are mellower. Because the landings are steeper on BMX trails, you have less margin for error, as in it's easier to land flat/hang-up. With most MTB trails, they've got mellower landings to make them easier to land if you f**k up.

I was saying that BMXers tend to have more bike control than MTBers because you need it to ride a BMX. You can get away with stuff a lot easier on an MTB, so if you don't have that option, you have to ride better to be able to land stuff.

Yeah I know that, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't do them on a 24"? Anyone who can ride trails to a decent standard, should be able to judge there speed well and adjust things in mid air for steeper landings. If you compare a bmx'er to a mtb'er that only rides trails with mellow landings then yeah the bmx'er will have more control because generally if you can ride trials with steep landings you can ride trails with mellow landings. But if you compare a bmx'er to a mtb'er that rides a mix of trails from big steep ones, to long mellow ones, there bike control would be the same, as they'd be riding the same sort of things surly?

[Milford Cubicle]

Milford's right in that different trails ride better on different bikes depending on if mtb or bmx riders built them, but mtb trails are also generally alot less techy and not as fast or flowy due to more mellow landings. Also, if you take into account the top UK mtb trails, and then the top UK BMX trails and the riders on them, you'll realise that the bmx trails scene is pretty much superio: bigger jumps, more tech lines, and riders going higher, smoother and throwing in more tricks.

Yea when i used to ride jump's i'd always watch bmx, still do because its really hard to find good stylish mtb dirt jumpers on tinernet. If i ever start riding jumps again, it would probably be on a bmx if i could man up enough

billx

[Max Quinn]

Yeah I know that, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't do them on a 24"? Anyone who can ride trails to a decent standard, should be able to judge there speed well and adjust things in mid air for steeper landings. If you compare a bmx'er to a mtb'er that only rides trails with mellow landings then yeah the bmx'er will have more control because generally if you can ride trials with steep landings you can ride trails with mellow landings. But if you compare a bmx'er to a mtb'er that rides a mix of trails from big steep ones, to long mellow ones, there bike control would be the same, as they'd be riding the same sort of things surly?

A prime example I just remembered, NASS 2008. Ian Gunner and other bmxers built the dirt jumps, and they were reaaalllyy good, if a little dusty with the weather etc. However, every mtber i've spoken to who rode them (including dmr team etc), just constantly slated them saying they were shit, and a few people I know who rode (not big names but good mtb riders none the less) barely got through them due to the seeming inability to navigate a pump roller before the last jump. So no, what you're saying isn't quite accurate.

The majority of mtb trails i've seen/ridden have been just straight line, trick jumps and most of the mtb riders I know don't seem to have much control when it comes to something a bit more techy. Also, if mtbers could ride steeper, bigger, more techy lines, then why don't they bloody build them? The fact is that the 'varied' mtb trails rider your describing rarely exists because they build and ride mtb trails rather than more bmx styled ones.

Also, it's not simply about rider ability. A bike with a bigger wheelbase is going to be effected very differently by a steep take off/quarter pipe/whatever and everything will feel even more kicky and sudden. If you take a very small but kicky landing built by a bmxer, a mtbers back wheel may not even be onto the bottom of the take off before he hits the lip due to the longer wheelbase. There's a new tight little vert wall we recently got put in at Watford skatepark which mtbers complain about because they can't ride it for shit due to the curve being too sudden and steep for their bikes

Also, when you say that bmxers are superiour in terms of tricks because of more versatality (grinds etc) you're also missing the fact that bmx is also alot further ahead in the kind of tricks that mtbs are capable of and mtbers often do, air tricks over trails and such.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Max Quinn

[Sam Nichols]

I just browsed around for a bit trying to find a MTBer with killer style that would blow Marks theory out of the water, I was sure that there MUST be someone somewhere.. But meh, can't find anyone.

So in support of Marks post, here is the best I could find.. He's still pretty badass and has good style, but it's nothing on BMX.

CLICK

[austen]

Jesus thats a huge reply!

A prime example I just remembered, NASS 2008. Ian Gunner and other bmxers built the dirt jumps, and they were reaaalllyy good, if a little dusty with the weather etc. However, every mtber i've spoken to who rode them (including dmr team etc), just constantly slated them saying they were shit, and a few people I know who rode (not big names but good mtb riders none the less) barely got through them due to the seeming inability to navigate a pump roller before the last jump. So no, what you're saying isn't quite accurate.

I don't see why they'd say they were shit? because if you watch videos of all the different teams (dmr etc) I'm pretty sure there are trails that they ride that are bmx trails?

And if they couldn't pump the roller before the last jump, that's nothing really to do with them being on mtb's, more to do with, they can't pump properly?

The majority of mtb trails i've seen/ridden have been just straight line, trick jumps and most of the mtb riders I know don't seem to have much control when it comes to something a bit more techy. Also, if mtbers could ride steeper, bigger, more techy lines, then why don't they bloody build them? The fact is that the 'varied' mtb trails rider your describing rarely exists because they build and ride mtb trails rather than more bmx styled ones.

Mtb'ers build mtb jumps because i'm assuming the majority of people who are going to ride them will be mtb'ers who prefer mtb jumps, and there's no point building bmx trails when its only going to be you who will enjoy riding them?

The trails where i live, we've built trails (that are yes in a straight line, which is so boring and i hate it, but its only because we don't have that much room) that the first four jumps, are more mtb orientated, but after the fourth they get into big steep jumps with steep landings and bomb holes, so it's a compromise to satisfy all riders. Personally i prefer the bmx orientated jumps because you get much more height, and they are generally more fun.

Also, it's not simply about rider ability. A bike with a bigger wheelbase is going to be effected very differently by a steep take off/quarter pipe/whatever and everything will feel even more kicky and sudden. If you take a very small but kicky landing built by a bmxer, a mtbers back wheel may not even be onto the bottom of the take off before he hits the lip due to the longer wheelbase. There's a new tight little vert wall we recently got put in at Watford skatepark which mtbers complain about because they can't ride it for shit due to the curve being too sudden and steep for their bikes

Yeah I can quite believe that, it's exactly why I ride bmx for park Still ride my mtb for half pipes though, just for a bit of crack! But a lot of people still ride 24" for park, got a dmr poster of my wall of the dmr team riding park, so it is possible.

Also, when you say that bmxers are superiour in terms of tricks because of more versatality (grinds etc) you're also missing the fact that bmx is also alot further ahead in the kind of tricks that mtbs are capable of and mtbers often do, air tricks over trails and such.

No no no, I only used grinds and that as an example, I do realise bmx is further ahead in all areas of tricking. As bmx's are smaller so there easier to chuck around and such in the air and on the ground.

[Max Quinn]

Out of interest, what examples of UK BMX trails would you give?

I don't see why they'd say they were shit? because if you watch videos of all the different teams (dmr etc) I'm pretty sure there are trails that they ride that are bmx trails?

They said they were shit because they were the kind of trails you can't just ride at and go over, as far as i'm concerned

And if they couldn't pump the roller before the last jump, that's nothing really to do with them being on mtb's, more to do with, they can't pump properly?

Well we are talking about some of the best mtbers in the uk, aka the ones you keep talking about?

Mtb'ers build mtb jumps because i'm assuming the majority of people who are going to ride them will be mtb'ers who prefer mtb jumps, and there's no point building bmx trails when its only going to be you who will enjoy riding them?

The trails where i live, we've built trails (that are yes in a straight line, which is so boring and i hate it, but its only because we don't have that much room) that the first four jumps, are more mtb orientated, but after the fourth they get into big steep jumps with steep landings and bomb holes, so it's a compromise to satisfy all riders. Personally i prefer the bmx orientated jumps because you get much more height, and they are generally more fun.

Hence why they're obviously not gonna be as good at bmx trails, cos they don't dig and ride them Therefore, they won't get the control we're talking about that you can develop from more techy, steeper and harder (yes, i said it ) bmx trails.

On another note, trails is the one discipline of bmx/mtb etc where you can ride exactly what YOU want. Go build your own thing and let the moaners build their own trails.

Yeah I can quite believe that, it's exactly why I ride bmx for park Still ride my mtb for half pipes though, just for a bit of crack! But a lot of people still ride 24" for park, got a dmr poster of my wall of the dmr team riding park, so it is possible.

Fair enough. Yes it is possible, but were talking about what's better. It's possible to run the 100 metres with no feet, but it's hardly the best solution. Also, I'm using that for an example not just for park, but to show how different jumps are very different on different bikes so mtbs will struggle more with bmx trails.

I just browsed around for a bit trying to find a MTBer with killer style that would blow Marks theory out of the water, I was sure that there MUST be someone somewhere.. But meh, can't find anyone.

So in support of Marks post, here is the best I could find.. He's still pretty badass and has good style, but it's nothing on BMX.

CLICK

He's obviously a sick rider, but if the best example of style on a mtb has that many manuals down qp landings and pedals between ramps, not to mention the plethora of overshoots, overspins etc. I'm concerned haha. Oh, and those top side one footed wallrides are a prime example of what's gay about the mtb scene

Edited September 1, 2009 by Max Quinn

[MadManMike]

Choose a bike, ride it, enjoy it.

/thread

[austen]

Out of interest, what examples of UK BMX trails would you give?

They said they were shit because they were the kind of trails you can't just ride at and go over, as far as i'm concerned

Well we are talking about some of the best mtbers in the uk, aka the ones you keep talking about?

Hence why they're obviously not gonna be as good at bmx trails, cos they don't dig and ride them Therefore, they won't get the control we're talking about that you can develop from more techy, steeper and harder (yes, i said it ) bmx trails.

On another note, trails is the one discipline of bmx/mtb etc where you can ride exactly what YOU want. Go build your own thing and let the moaners build their own trails.

Fair enough. Yes it is possible, but were talking about what's better. It's possible to run the 100 metres with no feet, but it's hardly the best solution. Also, I'm using that for an example not just for park, but to show how different jumps are very different on different bikes so mtbs will struggle more with bmx trails.

He's obviously a sick rider, but if the best example of style on a mtb has that many manuals down qp landings and pedals between ramps, not to mention the plethora of overshoots, overspins etc. I'm concerned haha. Oh, and those top side one footed wallrides are a prime example of what's gay about the mtb scene

Uk bmx trails, are nothing compared to American/Australian etc. ones. But im talking about in general, not just uk trails

And no, you said the people who couldn't pump it weren't big names........? I REALLY cant see how just cause it was on mtb, meant they couldn't pump it.

and yes, i agree bmx trails are harder, due to having to know how to pump correctly etc, but just cause mtb'ers dont build bmx trails, doesnt mean they don't travel to ride other peoples trails?

I know bmx is a lot better for park and ramp and street and that and i completely understand why, but i just cant see how 24" dirt specific bikes would struggle on trails, even if they are harder and steeper, because not all 24"ers have suspension, a lot are rigid, so there just as smooth as a bmx if there ridden correctly?

I need some mtbers to back me up, cause at the moment, im getting beasted hahaha!