Onza Dropouts,

[Mark W]

What it's marketed for is irrelevant. People want the lightest stuff around, so they'll buy it. There have been plenty of people who've posted up on here when they're broken a light comp frame. Now everyone's more interested in weight than strenght or function, I can't really see that trend changing any time soon.

[cai]

I'd say this thread has lost Onza quite a few future sales..

[Muel]

What it's marketed for is irrelevant. People want the lightest stuff around, so they'll buy it. There have been plenty of people who've posted up on here when they're broken a light comp frame. Now everyone's more interested in weight than strenght or function, I can't really see that trend changing any time soon.

Not the TGS riders though, they couldn't give a shit about weight as long as it's strong, which is why I can't understand why Onza ever sponsored Swindlehurst and CLS, they need to be on strong deng style frames like Zonas.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Muel

[Mark W]

Presumably because Onza are trying to make a stronger, street-orientated frame? It's not like there's a secret or key to making a strong frame that only Deng can or will possess. They need TGS riders to be able to design and develop frames for TGS.

[manuel]

It's not like there's a secret or key to making a strong frame that only Deng can or will possess.

It was called U6 ...

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Some say it was a mix of aluminium oxide and alloying substances which included Deng's toenail clippings and a hair sample from Benito. All we know is that it was called U6 ...

[Al_Fel]

It's not a street frame, it's a lightweight comp style frame, which I why I've always said giving one to Swindlehurst was f**king stupid. He's an amazing rider, but he's a TGS style rider, and their bikes get more of a hammering than a comp rider.

Now CLS is in aswell? Good luck Onza. It'll be very hard to make a street frame better than a Zona. I'd suggest taking the Zona, making it under 2kg and rebranding it an Onza and it'll sell really well.

Looking at the evidence in here, it's obviously a design flaw that will need sorting for the 2010 frames. If I were running Onza, I'd get a gusset in there on every frame that's produced from this point onwards, as fast as possible. Or there will be so many coming in for a half price replacement you'll loose money.

I very much doubt that.

[hdmackay]

Are people finally starting to realise if you want a strong frame, it's going to have to be a bit heavier?

Nope. I've realised that for a long time now but in my opinion, the new Onza's are one of the strongest frames going.

You can't get heavy, strong frames anymore. Even Deng has gone liteweight. For example, take a look on Tarty, click on 20" frames. There isn't a single frame that strong, heavy and meant for TGS. Company's just don't make it anymore. The GU ST is the only frame above 2kg I think on Tarty and it's disc only anyway and not alot of TGS riders are double disc.

So basically my point is, the new Onza's such as the Ice is probably the strongest frame going right now for TGS. And i'm only talking about what Tarty have here.

So it's not just me that thinks that any frame below 2.0-2.1kgs is going to be too weak for TGS?

Basically the same as what I said.

all the guys doing is pointing out a flaw in the design for onza to look into and address if need be, you people having a go is just not needed at all!

Thank you. That's exactly right.

[..::littlesam::..]

So it's not just me that thinks that any frame below 2.0-2.1kgs is going to be too weak for TGS?

not every natty rider rides like stan shaw! so dont be giving its only the street riders that will snap these!

get over tgs! it dosent even mean anything anymore! everyones riding lines and stuff these days etc. and there are smooth tgs riders like cocky etc.

giving swindle a onza frame means nothing thats like saying danny cant ride natty because hes a street rider .

most of the riders on tf are smooth, however were talking about the dropouts so there going to get strain so smoothness means shit on this point!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mark W]

thats like saying danny cant ride natty because hes a street rider .

I have no idea about Danny in particular, but there are plenty of street riders who can't ride natural for shit. It's a completely different ball game, and requires totally different kinds of control and technique.

[Muel]

not every natty rider rides like stan shaw! so dont be giving its only the street riders that will snap these!

get over tgs! it dosent even mean anything anymore! everyones riding lines and stuff these days etc. and there are smooth tgs riders like cocky etc.

giving swindle a onza frame means nothing thats like saying danny cant ride natty because hes a street rider .

most of the riders on tf are smooth, however were talking about the dropouts so there going to get strain so smoothness means shit on this point!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said any of the examples you've given there either. I know most people arn't as smooth as Stan, (a lot are though, and are smoother than a TGS rider), I also know that TGS doesn't mean TGS, no-one actually limits themselves to those three, but I havn't seen a new name for that sort of style yet, I never said Danny can't ride natty, I never even hinted at it so I don't know where you've got that from, I've only ever seen his videos and never seen a rock.

Did you read the thread at all? Or just assumed what I said? My point was that the frames clearly arn't that strong at the moment, they've got this flaw, but if they stuck a gusset in there then it should be alright, and that it's daft to give the likes of Danny and CLS frames that are this light.

Never commented on how smooth they are, what I think of their riding, (I actually quite like TGS, one of the best rides I've been on was in Sheffield).

When you're doing a big drop gap and rimming the tyre really hard, the dropout will get more strain than if you're riding natty smoothly.

[hdmackay]

Well, I think Onza are making a Mark 2 Ice so hopefully they will take what has been said here onboard and strengthen the dropouts.

Now I just need to hope I can get a replacement.

[Greetings]

I'm not having a go at Onza. I love this frame and the way it rides.

Is that something you have to add to your posts so there's a small chance that the frame will go under warranty?

If you have to pay half price for getting it replaced, that's a right rip off.

[ZHI-sam]

no muel my post wasnt aimed at anyone in particular

[Revolver]

Surely, if they just redesigned the shape of the dropouts to absorb shock a bit better, all would be well?

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Surely, if they just redesigned the shape of the dropouts to absorb shock a bit better, all would be well?

There's probably a large box of thousands of those dropouts sitting in a factory somewhere though. If it were a problem the easiest solution would probably to weld an extra gusset or brace in around there to spread the load.

[hdmackay]

Is that something you have to add to your posts so there's a small chance that the frame will go under warranty?

If you have to pay half price for getting it replaced, that's a right rip off.

No, i'm telling the truth. I'm actually not having a go at them and I do really like the frame.

Yeah, I think so too.

Surely, if they just redesigned the shape of the dropouts to absorb shock a bit better, all would be well?

Yeah, exactly what I think.

[basher]

and as for basher guy who just loves trying to prove me wrong on this just because he cant work a snail cam. there will still be 4 other mod frames with the other dropouts anyway. so whats the big deal, plus your 2010 frame isnt in productionyet?!

its not a case of trying to prove you wrong but its anoying that you just jumped to a conclusion after three frames had broke, im not saying there isn't a probelm but untill a number of them break you can't make a assumption. and now what you have made out is that the tensioning system is to blame when its not going to be, its obviously just the shape of the dropout thats at fault.

[Paperclip]

its not a case of trying to prove you wrong but its anoying that you just jumped to a conclusion after three frames had broke, im not saying there isn't a probelm but untill a number of them break you can't make a assumption. and now what you have made out is that the tensioning system is to blame when its not going to be, its obviously just the shape of the dropout thats at fault.

Iv not had a go at the tentioning system, as its easy and all that however,I have had a go at the way this system is affecting the drop outs in a point that the steys are off set witch is the reason for these to crack, echo dropouts are fine! however again so is the older dropouts with snail cams.

as its allready been said there is most likly 1000s of these made so trying a gusset would be the best option for now, and as my post in the topic of cls helping sort out a street frame with onza I would strongly recomend they solved a little bit of strenth out as its all coming down to tgs even though thats nothing to do with a frame cracking!

frames will get strain with street or natty.

every one sees your point there is only a few frames cracking, so ill leave this topic untill we see more go. however onza have seen there frames crack now! even on there world champ! so even if ive made a few people pissed off they might just think to them selves ohh maybe well try strenthen these up, or maybe well try cnc a new dropout that dosent have offset tubes, because thats the reason these will go! because its getting strain on the dropout thats only welded slightly to the corner of a tube .

bump this topic in a month see what happens, seen as me and hunter got ices as they first came out really well see!

note: im not saying there like koxx and just all die on anyone, all im saying is there is room for improvement!

[JT!]

There only seems to have been barely half a dozen snap. It doesn't seem like it's a big enough deal yet.

A frame is only a strong as it's weakest point, when the t-pros first started coming out they were all braking round the head tube area. But that wasn't considered to be a big deal. if the dropouts were re designed or re enforced, all that would happen would be the next weakest point would break a couple of months down the road, and if that was strengthened then something else would break, that'll keep on going until you end up with a frame that'll never break but'll weigh too much.

Until it becomes a serious problem, i think you should give up your crusade and be glad onza offer a half price replacement scheme.

[Paperclip]

There only seems to have been barely half a dozen snap. It doesn't seem like it's a big enough deal yet.

A frame is only a strong as it's weakest point, when the t-pros first started coming out they were all braking round the head tube area. But that wasn't considered to be a big deal. if the dropouts were re designed or re enforced, all that would happen would be the next weakest point would break a couple of months down the road, and if that was strengthened then something else would break, that'll keep on going until you end up with a frame that'll never break but'll weigh too much.

Until it becomes a serious problem, i think you should give up your crusade and be glad onza offer a half price replacement scheme.

I 100% agree, however if onza strenthend the dropouts as you said would give you a little more time with a working, non cracked/snapped frame.

so question time,

would you rather:?:

a, have a standerd pro series onza frame that cracks in say just under the warrenty period so around 5months.

b, have say if this was to happen a pro series mk2 that did not crack in this place but might go lets say on the bash mounts however that frame lasted 10 months.

if you think about that question in a onza riders point of view(someone who really likes this frame and dosent want to change frame) somewhere in that question youd be saving 150 pounds!

again IM NOT SAYING EVERY ONZA FRAME WILL CRACK, however as my points gettting threw and clearly states in the topic title room for imporvement. thats all this thread is its not a dig at onza, they have 5 of the nicest looking, nicest geos, nicest choice of frame with geos suitable for all types of riding and abuilitys. however if this was to prove to be a problem, and onza could make a MK2 frame id pay 50 pounds more for a stiffer/stronger frame! im currently waiting for the one im riding to crack and its not the best feeling trying not too and thinking to your self I better check it tonight to see if it has

[Kieran@ZSClothing]

Bashers..

[hdmackay]

Bashers..

*Maladie snaps*

[Matt Vandart]

I would have to inspect an actual example but the figures quoted and from the pictures I would say that the cracks are the result of a quality issue with the welding of these particular frames, rather than the deign side of things.

Matt

[RossMcd]

I would have to inspect an actual example but the figures quoted and from the pictures I would say that the cracks are the result of a quality issue with the welding of these particular frames, rather than the deign side of things.

Matt

Thats quite a valid point actually! When I had a look at hunters frame the crack actually goes street through the weld Which is unusual to see to be honest.