Lycra Tights?

[1a2bcio8]

Scientific arguement started off with not getting the name of the medical issue you're talking about right?

Not many of the world's best riders cruise around in lycra any more, so using the "They probably know what they're talking about" mindset, I'm willing to bet the majority will be alright.

I also don't see how lycra from one company's really going to look much different from another, unless it's darker or less ostentatious? Surely your body profile's going to be the determining factor in any case, unless there's a cover over the initial layer of lycra itself?

Hah, my bad. I did suspect that I might have got that wrong but was too lazy to check. I also noticed that with my earlier post i refered to a vein as an artery. But as I'm not being the scientist, it's not such an issue. It certainly shouldn't detract from the actual science itself or my general argument, providing you actually know what I'm refering to.

I'm assuming you mean trials riders when you talk of not many riders using lycra? Well, I would suggest that's because the fashion of aesthetics plays a large importance in most people's riding. If individuals were to shed heavy jeans, cotton t-shirt, etc. for lycra, they would almost certainly be placing themselves at an advantage - reduced weight, more freedom of movement, etc. Ultimately, it can be considered in terms of rudimentry physics.

Unlike other aspects of riding, the clothing worn carries with it more of a dedication to what others think of it, than what relates to performance and potential enjoyment. Also, as an example, given the climate displayed within this thread, sponsered riders aren't going to be doing themselves much of a monetary favour by wearing lycra under the eye of potential and respective consumers.

Lycra does mostly look different with the colour schemes/segments/stitching. For me, this makes a difference, because there designs I don't like. The lycra I was refering to is, to my eye, more subtle than other forms of lycra. Naturally, this doesn't change the form and display of the human body but then what's the issue with looking more like we do without clothes? Do people like to look down at their more fundamental self? It's probably a truth and a sorry one at that.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Ben Rowlands

[Mark W]

I'm assuming you mean trials riders when you talk of not many riders using lycra? Well, I would suggest that's because the fashion of aesthetics plays a large importance in most people's riding. If individuals were to shed heavy jeans, cotton t-shirt, etc. for lycra, they would almost certainly be placing themselves at an advantage - reduced weight, more freedom of movement, etc. Ultimately, it can be considered in terms of rudimentry physics.

I said "top riders", as in the comp dudes. I don't really see many of them riding in "heavy jeans" and so on, and equally, I don't see many of them giving much of a shit about how they look in comps, especially with the dedication they have to winning.

Lycra does mostly look different with the colour schemes/segments/stitching. For me, this makes a difference, because there designs I don't like. The lycra I was refering to is, to my eye, more subtle than other forms of lycra. Naturally, this doesn't change the form and display of the human body but then what's the issue with looking more like we do without clothes? Do people like to look down at their more fundamental self?

I didn't say I had an issue with it, and I really don't give a shit about that particular topic simply because I'm sure it's possible to witter on for hours at a time about how we shouldn't be so fashion conscious and so on, and how we shouldn't be ashamed about how we look. I honestly don't care about why people don't want to look like they would 'without clothes' or like their 'fundamental self'. All I was getting at is that for most people, simply changing the colour of the lycra they wear isn't going to change the general look of wearing lycra, which is what most people have a problem with.

[1a2bcio8]

I said "top riders", as in the comp dudes. I don't really see many of them riding in "heavy jeans" and so on, and equally, I don't see many of them giving much of a shit about how they look in comps, especially with the dedication they have to winning.

Regardless, lycra is incredibly light and unrestrictive. I have running tops and shorts which are light and unrestrictive but lycra is definitely better in those terms. I am open to being wrong but I think lycra would place people at an advantage.

I just think the factor of social acceptability (implict or explicit) may play a substantial role in turning people off of a potential advantage. Just like most things in life!

I said "top riders", as in the comp dudes. I don't really see many of them riding in "heavy jeans" and so on, and equally, I don't see many of them giving much of a shit about how they look in comps, especially with the dedication they have to winning.

I didn't say I had an issue with it, and I really don't give a shit about that particular topic simply because I'm sure it's possible to witter on for hours at a time about how we shouldn't be so fashion conscious and so on, and how we shouldn't be ashamed about how we look. I honestly don't care about why people don't want to look like they would 'without clothes' or like their 'fundamental self'. All I was getting at is that for most people, simply changing the colour of the lycra they wear isn't going to change the general look of wearing lycra, which is what most people have a problem with.

Sure thing but that wasn't aimed at you. It was a general question for the purposes of emphasising my point

And I would quite happily witter on about that, as you probably know. It does interest me

Edited July 11, 2009 by Ben Rowlands

[Mark W]

Perhaps people settling for things that are light and unrestrictive instead of "incredibly" light and unrestricted is the "problem". I'm sure if more people felt the "incredible" burden of their "light and unrestrictive" clothing they'd be willing to go for the "incredible" item of clothing.

EDIT: My problem with philosophy, and why I didn't take it any further than my A-level in it, was that people were more than happy wittering and trying to twist concepts and definitions to try and suit their own aims and ideals without actually thinking about things in a more realistic sense, or indeed keeping their ideas grounded in reality. People also seem to have a great desire to talk at great length about things that simply don't matter, which again, I see no point in dedicating my time to. The lack of desire to actually change what people seem as an issue instead of just theorising about it was also a problem for me, and if there was no solution (i.e. it was an unchangeable issue) then there's not really much to be gained from wishful thinking. That's all a fairly abridged version of my ideas on the subject so it loses a little in the translation

[1a2bcio8]

Perhaps people settling for things that are light and unrestrictive instead of "incredibly" light and unrestricted is the "problem". I'm sure if more people felt the "incredible" burden of their "light and unrestrictive" clothing they'd be willing to go for the "incredible" item of clothing.

EDIT: My problem with philosophy, and why I didn't take it any further than my A-level in it, was that people were more than happy wittering and trying to twist concepts and definitions to try and suit their own aims and ideals without actually thinking about things in a more realistic sense, or indeed keeping their ideas grounded in reality. People also seem to have a great desire to talk at great length about things that simply don't matter, which again, I see no point in dedicating my time to.

Nice sarcasm.

But yeah, you're a surface person who wants to live the life that's dealt to you because it's easier to do so. Furry muff. Personally, I'd rather attempt to understand a bit deeper and get things wrong along the way.

Yet, alas, you just espoused a philosophy in the process of putting down philosophy. Doh!

It's inescapable that we are philosophers. It's just that some of us are passive philosophers and some of us are a bit more active.

I dislike turning this bitchy but that's the general attitude I get from you, Mark.

[Mark W]

You've read me wrong then, apparently. I do think more about matters so I'm not a "surface person", it's just that I'm not going off the other end of the scale and attempting to simply bullshit my way through life either. You'll also notice my talk of trying to come up with solutions and ideas that can change life, as I clearly said. Similarly, I'm willing to think these things and have my own ideas on life without having to impart my own ideas and thoughts to everyone about everything (Although as you've seen from previous 'philosophy' type threads on here I'm willing to contribute to a debate, or is that conveniently forgotten?). I'm more than happy to keep my ideas about more important subjects to myself, simply because most people don't particularly care about what other people have to think about ideas. Some people's minds won't ever be changed about subjects (Which is what I was referring to mainly with my last post and talking about being unable to change life), and some people's minds shouldn't need to be.

I'm still interested in philosophy, just not the majority of philosophers. (Yes, I'm aware that "We're all philosophers", but hopefully you'll get my point )

[1a2bcio8]

You've read me wrong then, apparently. I do think more about matters so I'm not a "surface person", it's just that I'm not going off the other end of the scale and attempting to simply bullshit my way through life either.

I'm still interested in philosophy, just not the majority of philosophers. (Yes, I'm aware that "We're all philosophers", but hopefully you'll get my point )

The implication being that I constructed a psuedo-philosophy to support my argument for the purposes of winning? Otherwise, if my philosophy were of the valid sort that you do pay attention to and enjoy, you may have engaged in a discussion with me?

I really don't trust your motives, Mark. You often seem to enjoy the role of putting people down.

[Mark W]

"Your philosophy" may well be valid, but as I said, there are various aspects of philosophy that I am interested in discussing, and ones that I'm not. "Your philosophy" that I was refering to earlier in this thread - the one I said I couldn't be bothered discussing - was the one about how people should change their ideas about fashion and so on. The reason that I'm not particularly interested in discussing that is that I'd rather lead by example, and not just aimlessly talk about things that, in a perfect world, I'd change. Again - that doesn't mean I don't think about these things, I just see no merit in putting "I wish..." statements on here.

[Dan81]

Pseudo-science nonsense part 1

Pseudo-science nonsense part 2

There's so much wrong I can't be bothered to argue it. Many misinformed comments. A beginners course for common sense can be found at www.badscience.net

On another point, whilst I can agree that for trials there'll be some minor plusses of lycra in terms of low weight, movement, these benefits are far outweighed by looking like a complete knob. Some of the worlds best riders havent been held back by their jeans/t-shirt/trainers riding gear....xc, roadies - fair enough, there just isn't the need for it for trials.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Dan81

[JD™]

On another point, whilst I can agree that for trials there'll be some minor plusses of lycra in terms of low weight, movement, these benefits are far outweighted by looking like a complete knob. /pseudo nonsense about knowing about something about fashion or something

Shhhhh. You talk too much crap to get in the way of what is an interesting debate between 2 very intelligent members of this forum

EDIT: ACTUALLY, I'm going to take this further. You say that the minor benefits are outweighed by looks. Formula One - would they rather make a car that looks nice, or a car that wins?

Same with anyone who wants to be top of their game.

This is not a pro lycra in trials arguement, I haven't tried it so I can't comment. But I know for certain it helps my running.

Edited July 11, 2009 by JD™

[Dan81]

...between 2 very intelligent members of this forum

EDIT: ACTUALLY, I'm going to take this further. You say that the minor benefits are outweighed by looks. Formula One - would they rather make a car that looks nice, or a car that wins?

Same with anyone who wants to be top of their game.

This is not a pro lycra in trials arguement, I haven't tried it so I can't comment. But I know for certain it helps my running.

I'm not sure what F1 car design has do do with trials riders wearing lycra but I think I know what you're trying to say.

The running is a better analogy; if it was of any real benefit then great....let's all go out and buy skinsuits. My opinion is that it makes f*** all difference for most trials riders. If it made a significant difference we'd all be wearing it, talking about what new tights are out this year, buying the latest in lycra from Tarty...

edit: If someone thinks it helps them and they're ok with the lycra look, go for it...just don't quote a load of bs about detox...

Edited July 11, 2009 by Dan81

[JD™]

I'm not sure what F1 car design has do do with trials riders wearing lycra but I think I know what you're trying to say.

The running is a better analogy; if it was of any real benefit then great....let's all go out and buy skinsuits. My opinion is that it makes f*** all difference for most trials riders. If it made a significant difference we'd all be wearing it, talking about what new tights are out this year, buying the latest in lycra from Tarty...

edit: If someone thinks it helps them and they're ok with the lycra look, go for it...just don't quote a load of bs about detox...

The point is there IS a benefit to be had by wearing lycra in trials at an international level. Mainly freedom of movement. I personally wouldn't go down that route, but I'm never gonna be international standard. It's the same level of difference as many hours in the wind tunnel for a 0.000001 second per lap advantage in F1, if it's the difference between winning and being the number 1 loser.

What Ben said about 'detox' is true, but he just worded it in a way that was bound to put people like you off. He said toxins, which makes you assume detox. Really it's about movement of lactic acid and other stagnant elements that make you feel like shit after a workout/session.

[1a2bcio8]

"Your philosophy" may well be valid, but as I said, there are various aspects of philosophy that I am interested in discussing, and ones that I'm not. "Your philosophy" that I was refering to earlier in this thread - the one I said I couldn't be bothered discussing - was the one about how people should change their ideas about fashion and so on. The reason that I'm not particularly interested in discussing that is that I'd rather lead by example, and not just aimlessly talk about things that, in a perfect world, I'd change. Again - that doesn't mean I don't think about these things, I just see no merit in putting "I wish..." statements on here.

Hold on, when did I tell people to change their ideas? As far as I'm aware, I was indicating potential motivations for the disliking of lycra and offering alternative perceptions. I never once used a definite "should". That doesn't mean that I don't think certain perceptions/ideas relate to a healthier state for human beings, that I let know as being such, and that I won't not contribute those in a relevant context, especially because of the fear of being looked at as somebody whom is telling others how to live. Personally, and I know this is personal, I would prefer to offer alternative ideas that may contribute to a happier state of being for other humans.

And sure, it's your choice not to do the same. But the mocking attitude I perceive from you carries for me the implication that I'm in the wrong in some sense. Certainly if my statements carry a "should". Essentially, at the very least, you do very little difference from me. It just relates to a different philosophy. I see getting too hung up on aesthetics (that philosophy) in any sense as unhealthly, you see putting forward alternative ways of being or "ideals" (this philosophy) as not good.

It's interesting. I find your attitude to be somewhat condescending but I'm now aware of myself potentially doing the same in return. I would prefer to be otherwise. I think you remind me of several of my friends who have a similar approach to other people whom they disagree with, in some sense. Do you detect this attitude with yourself?

[Mark W]

you see putting forward alternative ways of being or "ideals" (this philosophy) as not good.

No, I don't. You don't appear to be getting my point in virtually anything I'm saying to you (Or taking things I'm saying out of context either deliberately or unintentionally), and I have no desire to waste more time trying to change that. I'm fine with you having a seemingly negative opinion of me because you're basing this judgement on an incomplete view of who I am. If you want to do that, then fine. I have no real issue with that, simply because what you think is fairly irrelevant to my life.

Also noted the irony in your closing statement too, as it's one I feel I could fairly accurately level at you (although I'd not bother with the "Do you detect this attitude with yourself" on the end, as that seems a bit rich...).

[Rusevelt]

I can't afford skins compression sportswear but, i discovered some cheap compression gear at my local Poundland shop. I use them for riding, security work, and recovery during sleeping and they are amazing. Ps, both Ben, and Mark's comments on this topic are just pants if you can see the funny side of this chaps.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Rusevelt

[JD™]

I can't afford skins compression sportswear but, i discovered some cheap compression gear at my local Poundland shop. I use them for riding, security work, and recovery during sleeping and they are amazing.

What make are they?

I don't wanna be snobbish, but there's a lot of stuff out there that is just a waste of money. At that point it's just worth saving for the good stuff.

[Rusevelt]

Don't know what make, i just know they work. Yeah i agree that some poundland items are a bit dodgy, but you can always get your money back. the compression gear they have are not full length, they specifically cut for the ankles, knees, and elbows. if i find the original packaging ill post a pic here.

[Has anyone seen my shoe?]

I havent read half the bullshit in the thread because I cant be arsed.

I have a pair of lycra/neoprene-ish shorts that I used to wear for rugby. Under armour was the brand and I got them in JJB.

I wear them because they keep my cock and balls nice and secure and stop me getting sores from the shorts rubbing on my thighs. They also keep you quite warm

[Dan S]

I use regular thermal Tights. They are a bit shorter then my legs are, so that make them stretch a bit, which is good because they don't really bother me.

It really helps to ride because my muscles are always warm and ready to work.

I wear theese pants even in summer.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Dan S

[Christophe']

Onzaboy, we all know that you dont like lycra.........yawn.............

Fact is, for road cycling/triathlon it works and is comfy.

My point being is that some people on this forum do find other things in life interesting beyond internet lurking and Bmx

x

[Hannah Shucksmith]

Onzaboy, we all know that you dont like lycra.........yawn.............

Fact is, for road cycling/triathlon it works and is comfy.

My point being is that some people on this forum do find other things in life interesting beyond internet lurking and Bmx

x

I fear for your warn level.

[Christophe']

I fear for your warn level.

Ill take my chances that mark knows me a bit.

And the fact that everyone on this forum has the right to an opinion.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Christophe'

[Captain Scarlet]

do you even need to wear it though? Just look like a bit of a mong...

A lot of regional and national level competitions require it as a rule to have your legs covered, so ideally if you wanted to wear shorts.